Microsoft is fucking butthurt no one wants Windows 11 so they're stopping the sale of Windows 10 licenses this month

[The Ugly One]

Come on now, not knowing the gay little name Microsoft puts on something for marketing purposes isn't the same as not knowing about computers. Don't be a retard like @Samuel Hyde here.

Anyone who spends ten minutes finding out what TPM is will run really quickly into articles about cloud drive security. If someone doesn't know what Bitlocker, OneDrive, or Personal Vault are, that means he has spent zero minutes, zero seconds learning about Windows 11's TPM requirement.

I've noticed over the years that Linux people tend to know a lot about the specific computer sitting in front of them, in part because you need to in order for Linux to be useable, but tend to just rely on guesswork and assumptions when it's something outside their direct experience. The kinds of people who form snap opinions about technology and get passionately angry without even learning what the technology actually does tend to not know much in general.

Who in the name of Allah would do something like this? Holy shit.'

You know, having read through the thread I can't help but notice a fundamental difference in the Linux advocates and Windows apologists.

Linux people are constantly demanding the user should know more, improve themselves and apply what they learn to the machine they use. They should be the ones making the final decisions and choosing how things are done, even if it makes it more work for them.

Windows meanwhile keep deferring back to the idea the computer should just work. That expecting users and final customers to improve is a complete crapshoot and instead the software should just work as expected and that's it.. Compatibility, simplicity and functionality should come first.

Quite interesting distinction.

The biggest difference in this thread is that Linux people get upset when Windows users keep using Windows and don't switch to Linux, while Windows users don't really care what someone else uses if it works for them.

It might be my own bias but it sounds to me that this zoomer was so insistent on Word and PowerPoint because he simply did not want to bother considering much less learning any of the alternatives at all. I say this mostly because of the focusing on PowerPoint. I cannot think of anyone who actually uses it nowadays outside school project (though it also applies for university ones) as every job I have had on the last 10 years I never even saw it be mentioned. If he had said "Excel" that would have made a lot more sense to me and would sound like a actual requirement.

The developers where I work use Powerpoint in shared drives instead of the ticketing system to manage & document their projects. I am not making this up.

 

[General Emílio Médici]

The biggest difference in this thread is that Linux people get upset when Windows users keep using Windows and don't switch to Linux, while Windows users don't really care what someone else uses if it works for them.


The developers where I work use Powerpoint in shared drives instead of the ticketing system to manage & document their projects. I am not making this up.

I would say we get upset because it is a case of a apathetic majority ruining computing for us out of laziness and ignorance, as they fuel the MS monopoly and the Windows system and refuse to allow the better solutions a chance to grow. Which is why it is especially infuriating when news like Windows 11 coming out being all sorts of new anti-consumer and anti-tinkering and locked down configurations we fly into absolute tard rage because despite explaining to the normies complaining they can just try and change all that happens is they complain about it for a few weeks ineffectually before giving up and accepting it. Drives a fella mad to see it happen over and over again.

Does that Powerpoint hack work? Is it any good or is it unholy? It kinda sounds fascinating to be honest. I can imagine how some boomer might have come up with such a unusual solution throwing shit together like that.

 

[Matt Damon]

I would say we get upset because it is a case of a apathetic majority ruining computing for us out of laziness and ignorance, as they fuel the MS monopoly and the Windows system and refuse to allow the better solutions a chance to grow.

"We've had thirty years to get consumers to switch from a paid product to our free one and made no inroads at all. It's definitely the consumer's fault and says nothing about the quality of what we're offering."

 

[General Emílio Médici]

Linux literally puts out baby proofed distros and normies don't wanna even try. You can get Mint going in minutes. There are tutorials that explain it in literally five minutes and you can go back to doing your shit on fagbook and youtube like you did on windows. But that requires you spend a modicum of effort. And they don't want to. It's just too hard to try to read something.

You guys are honestly making Windows users sound like a bunch of niggers. This is straight up what you guys are sounding like when talking about Linux vs. Windows at this point just replace "computers" with Linux:

15 years, even 10 years ago I would have not been as hard because there were still some issues on Linux, most notably how hard it was to run games which was a massive barrier to people trying to get into it. But today Proton means most games just run straight out of the box, especially if you are talking about older titles which is what someone who is not very good at computers would be running (since I assume that someone shilling the money for a gaming PC would at least try and understand how his expensive hobby works).

I am curious actually. What do you think Linux could even do to possibly entice people out of Windows? What else do you need the penguin to do? The battery issues on laptops was a good pointer, I can see that being a issue that normies would have a issue with so I will give props to that but I am pretty sure most distros have in-build battery regulation tools if they are meant for starter users. What else? Ubuntu and the like come with easy to install applications with nice, "app-store like" GUI guided installations. They have the fucking graphical fidelity. Drivers nowadays all install themselves unless you are running some niche shit (which, again, a normie wouldn't have). WHAT DO YOU WANT MORE YOU WINDOWS BOOTLICKER?

 

[White Devil]

I don't care what OS other people use, I just want reasonable privacy (no telemetry) and ease of use. If I have to have Windows on a computer exclusively just to play video games, fine, whatever. If I have to use a Linux distro on another computer that I do my finances and other shit on, fine. Maybe it comes from growing up in the tail end of the analog age going into digital, but I personally don't find this shit that hard.

 

[AmpleApricots]

what even is this thread

I use my (dedicated) TPMs in Linux and they're a great tool. From making reasonably sure a remote machine/remote data wasn't tampered with to being able to bind things to hardware and use things without having to enter passwords (beyond e.g. an initial one, or sequences of codes..) for sheer convenience. You can do a ton of stuff with these, even yes, in Linux. That said, don't really need them, could live just fine without them, it's more of a "because I can" thing for me. Can I trust the TPM? Counter question - can I trust my CPU, my network chip, the controller of my harddrive? Who the hell knows. Do you even know who made most of your components, I mean at a really low level? Who wrote the different intellectual property in your harddisk controller or UEFI firmware? (Hint: It's probably not the company you bought the device from, nor is it possibly only one company) Or that tiny microcontroller in your laptop sitting on the bus, managing the keyboard and various status LEDs/charging and/or battery? These days, there's a good chance that thing runs a full-blown OS itself, and it probably is faster than some of the computers you owned if you started in the 80s-90s. If you go down that road wanting to follow it to it's logical conclusion you'll soon sit in a desert shack with your selfbuilt Z80 and a tinfoil hat.

The problem with a proprietary OS like Microsoft's one for me is always, and always will be, one of trust and, last but not least, control. The existence or absence of hardware measures like TPMs and their usage like it seems to be right now doesn't really factor into that for me, although they certainly could be abused. Like most things in life living with the non-open parts of my system I can't completely control is a compromise. The days where you could study the users manual that came with your computer to exactly figure out how it processes the electric signal from the keyboard are sadly long over.

 

[Matt Damon]

What do you think Linux could even do to possibly entice people out of Windows?

Make it compatible with the software that people want to use. That's kinda been my thesis this whole thread.

I know - it's a crazy idea, but I think it might just work.

 

[General Emílio Médici]

Make it compatible with the software that people want to use. That's kinda been my thesis this whole thread.

I know, it's a crazy idea, but I think it might just work.

People have gone over this argument with you already. The software is already compatible. Browsers, media players, most games. It's there.

The only software that has no options for Limux are either niche technical stuff like software for laboratory equipament or specialist tools or software from big companies that refuse to offer it for Linux. For the former that means stuff like the Adobe suite for example and in that case I can understand the users not wanting to switch because no one deserves to deal woth Adobe's shit.

But the former? What software exactly are you even talking about that a normie would need for non-work stuff that does not have a FOSS alternative perfectly fine ready to go on Mint or Ubuntu exactly? Give me good examples here. Are you gonna pull out the example of the retarded zoomer who couldn't be assed to save files on LibreOffice as docx instead of ocr?

You don't actually have a argument here. Again: I am talking about home users for basic stuff. Not photographers or designers and shit who need Adobe suite hellware.

Show me these elusive normie software applications that Linux cannot run or have a alternative that works identically.

 

[The Ugly One]

I would say we get upset because it is a case of a apathetic majority ruining computing for us out of laziness and ignorance, as they fuel the MS monopoly and the Windows system and refuse to allow the better solutions a chance to grow. Which is why it is especially infuriating when news like Windows 11 coming out being all sorts of new anti-consumer and anti-tinkering and locked down configurations we fly into absolute tard rage because despite explaining to the normies complaining they can just try and change all that happens is they complain about it for a few weeks ineffectually before giving up and accepting it. Drives a fella mad to see it happen over and over again.

Linux can't simultaneously simultaneously "ruined" due to lack of users but also "better."

I will go back to a beginning point I made. Linux people never identify an actual user problem that switching to Linux solves without introducing a blizzard of far worse problems, including that special GPL breed of anti-user extremism that blames software bugs on the failure of the user to submit patches himself.

The only way Linux ever becomes a mainstream desktop OS is if a consortium of software companies funds the creation and maintenance of a distribution that will rise to the usability and quality levels expected by consumers, and serve as the access point to a stack of applications that people actually want. The end result will look more like Android than Mint, though.

Does that Powerpoint hack work? Is it any good or is it unholy? It kinda sounds fascinating to be honest. I can imagine how some boomer might have come up with such a unusual solution throwing shit together like that.

Imagine the usual Jira or Bugzilla sort of ticket. Except now imagine all that information is in a Powerpoint deck. Imagine nothing is searchable. Imagine that test results are embedded in PPT slides and not in any kind of archive. There's no interface of any kind to anything. It's all in fucking PowerPoint.

And yes, the guy who put it together is a Boomer who just retired.

 

[Matt Damon]

People have gone over this argument with you already. The software is already compatible. Browsers, media players, most games. It's there.

The only software that has no options for Limux are either niche technical stuff like software for laboratory equipament or specialist tools or software from big companies that refuse to offer it for Linux. For the former that means stuff like the Adobe suite for example and in that case I can understand the users not wanting to switch because no one deserves to deal woth Adobe's shit.

But the former? What software exactly are you even talking about that a normie would need for non-work stuff that does not have a FOSS alternative perfectly fine ready to go on Mint or Ubuntu exactly? Give me good examples here. Are you gonna pull out the example of the retarded zoomer who couldn't be assed to save files on LibreOffice as docx instead of ocr?

You don't actually have a argument here. Again: I am talking about home users for basic stuff. Not photographers or designers and shit who need Adobe suite hellware.

Show me these elusive normie software applications that Linux cannot run or have a alternative that works identically.

"Linux has all the software a person could ever need except for the ones it doesn't have which don't count."

 

[The Ugly One]

"Linux has all the software a person could ever need except for the ones it doesn't have which don't count."

"Linux is great because you can just use these shitty free versions of commercial software, which are also free and available on Windows, and which are so shitty that you currently pay money for the privilege of not having to use them."

 

[Aidan]

The only way Linux ever becomes a mainstream desktop OS is if a consortium of software companies funds the creation and maintenance of a distribution that will rise to the usability and quality levels expected by consumers, and serve as the access point to a stack of applications that people actually want. The end result will look more like Android than Mint, though.

My fanfic is that the real issue is lack of easy access. If people can't buy it in a store near them then a lot of people won't ever use it or know it exists.
If every computer with Windows pre-installed magically came with Ubuntu you'd suddenly find most people using Ubuntu even if they hated it.

 

[General Emílio Médici]

The only way Linux ever becomes a mainstream desktop OS is if a consortium of software companies funds the creation and maintenance of a distribution that will rise to the usability and quality levels expected by consumers, and serve as the access point to a stack of applications that people actually want. The end result will look more like Android than Mint, though.

Ok I have to ask: what does this even mean anymore? I am willing to admit it may be a case of me being too autistic to relate but I cannot for the life of me comprehend what exactly you even mean here.

Also that Powerpoint hack sounds like a amazing abomination.

"Linux has all the software a person could ever need except for the ones it doesn't have which don't count."

I see you have decide to take the path of "I will just purposefully ignore any nuance" to the argumentation. Cool.

Yes I am sure people used MS's Office Suite for it's parallel quality and it has nothing to do with the MS stronghold on the business world or the forceful integration of the OneDrive ecosystem. And the reason no free option to Adobe products exist is solely because the turboautsits of Linux cannot compete with the paid pajeets of Adobe and not because they literally sue anyone who tries and make a alternative. And also every normie does photo and pdf editing at home so using it is a must.

This honestly feels like insanity. I suspect I am being the target of trolling.

My fanfic is that the real issue is lack of easy access. If people can't buy it in a store near them then a lot of people won't ever use it or know it exists.
If every computer with Windows pre-installed magically came with Ubuntu you'd suddenly find most people using Ubuntu even if they hated it.

The horrifying thing is you are probably right. Normies can be this retarded. It is well known that you can fool them into swapping web browsers by just installing a different one and having the icon mimic the older browser. I remember this one time some website hosting a article about facebook in the early 2010's got suddenly millions of hits because Google changed their algorithm for searches to prioritize news so they ended up as the first result when you wrote facebook. And it was flooded with thousands and thousands of comments of retarded boomers who kept trying to "login" on the comments because these actual braindead creatures couldn't comprehend that this was not Facebook. They wrote "facebook" and clicked the first link! It has to be Facebook! Why is it different? How do I log in Facebook?

 

[Matt Damon]

I see you have decide to take the path of "I will just purposefully ignore any nuance" to the argumentation. Cool.

You've purposefully ignored every use case that doesn't support your argument. I'm just cutting through the mealy-mouthed nonsense.

 

[Pissmaster]

People have gone over this argument with you already. The software is already compatible. Browsers, media players, most games. It's there.

The only software that has no options for Limux are either niche technical stuff like software for laboratory equipament or specialist tools or software from big companies that refuse to offer it for Linux. For the former that means stuff like the Adobe suite for example and in that case I can understand the users not wanting to switch because no one deserves to deal woth Adobe's shit.

But the former? What software exactly are you even talking about that a normie would need for non-work stuff that does not have a FOSS alternative perfectly fine ready to go on Mint or Ubuntu exactly? Give me good examples here. Are you gonna pull out the example of the retarded zoomer who couldn't be assed to save files on LibreOffice as docx instead of ocr?

You don't actually have a argument here. Again: I am talking about home users for basic stuff. Not photographers or designers and shit who need Adobe suite hellware.

Show me these elusive normie software applications that Linux cannot run or have a alternative that works identically.

photoshop

 

[Dr. Geronimo]

Who in the name of Allah would do something like this? Holy shit.'

You know, having read through the thread I can't help but notice a fundamental difference in the Linux advocates and Windows apologists.

Linux people are constantly demanding the user should know more, improve themselves and apply what they learn to the machine they use. They should be the ones making the final decisions and choosing how things are done, even if it makes it more work for them.

Windows meanwhile keep deferring back to the idea the computer should just work. That expecting users and final customers to improve is a complete crapshoot and instead the software should just work as expected and that's it.. Compatibility, simplicity and functionality should come first.

Quite interesting distinction.

The number one reason to install Windows on your Deck is for game pass.

As for your comparison, I treat my computer like a tool. I like to have a good understanding of how it works on a base level, I take care of it, and if something breaks I'd like to be able to fix and prolong its life but I know eventually it has to go.

The problem with Linux is that people will screech over every screw or wire, and will bitch at you because you won't use their custom monstrosity. Or they think that someone needs a thermite drill when they just need a screwdriver.

 

[Matt Damon]

photoshop

That doesn't count because @General Emílio Médici has unilaterally deemed it to be unimportant and insufficiently "normie".

Yet again, Linuxfags think users should tailor their usage to meet the needs of the operating system, rather than the operating system meeting the needs of the users.

 

[General Emílio Médici]

The number one reason to install Windows on your Deck is for game pass.

Hadn't considered that. Good point.

photoshop

I would not consider Photoshop normie software. Very few normies know even the basics of it. It is a work tool, better for work computers. I explained this in what I thought was pretty good detail and you guys keep ignoring it.

Linux fags would LOVE to get Photoshop working on it flawlessly. They would literally port it for free if they were allowed. But Adobe are megajews that make MS look benign and won't even allow people to try and make a FOSS version of Photoshop because they claim patents over functions on the software. And when asked about porting it themselves they just say "sorry Linux doesn't have the market share".

And I am gonna guess normies are NOT paying for Photoshop so Adobe will never bother. And honestly no one should pay for it, Adobe are literally running a extortion here.

 

[The Ugly One]

Ok I have to ask: what does this even mean anymore? I am willing to admit it may be a case of me being too autistic to relate but I cannot for the life of me comprehend what exactly you even mean here.

Also that Powerpoint hack sounds like a amazing abomination.

Here's what expected quality of consumer grade means in the 2020s:

1. At launch, you've got a hardware certification program that encompasses all major vendors - think pretty much everyone who sells their shit at Best Buy - and all of it just works. 100%. Zero exceptions.
2. OS updates do not break your computer. Your updates are thoroughly regression-tested. Your hardware support model is as robust as Microsoft's is now, not as it was in 2002.
3. Shit like this literally never happens
   1. https://kiwifarms.net/threads/the-linux-thread.62944/post-15287021
   2. https://kiwifarms.net/threads/the-linux-thread.62944/post-15269457
   3. https://kiwifarms.net/threads/the-linux-thread.62944/post-15046164
   4. ...basically, none of anything in that thread should ever happen.
4. You have a professional support service, and community support is moderated to keep out the snarky cunts that infest askubuntu.com
5. Your development roadmap is in no way vulnerable to being roadblocked by some GPL faggot having a limpout
6. You have buy-in from companies like Adobe, Valve, Turbotax, etc. Figure on getting anyone who supports both OSX and Windows to play ball, even if that means you have to hand-roll some sort of emulation environment to make it work.
7. You can auto-sync user accounts, including photo & document services, across devices with no intervention from the user beyond registering each device to the same account.
8. All of your basic productivity software - mail client, calendar, file sharing, etc, is integrated, core cross-software functionality works with a click or two, no copying IP addresses around.
9. You launch with an official cloud service that the user can seamlessly integrate as a virtual drive, and yes, with TPM protection.
10. You take reasonable measures to idiot-proof your system, such as making it more challenging for the user to set it up so that he's always logged in as root than otherwise.

If you want to see what I mean, it's basically OSX. That's what a consumer-quality POSIX-compliant operating system looks like.

Yes I am sure people used MS's Office Suite for it's parallel quality and it has nothing to do with the MS stronghold on the business world or the forceful integration of the OneDrive ecosystem.

I say this as somebody who uses both Gimp and Libre Office on my home machine: those products are at best tolerable. If anybody's paying money to not use them, they're not going to switch.

 

[General Emílio Médici]

Here's what expected quality of consumer grade means in the 2020s:

Good lord. Is this really what your average normie expects of a computer nowadays with no effort whatsoever?

No wonder they bitch about Mint being "too hard" fuckers want everything literally spoonfed to them. Point 1 confuses me because I can't really imagine people still buy random software on store shelves but fair enough that is a blindspot of mine probably. The askings of points 2 and 3 are perfectly reasonable and I agree with. Normie focused distros should never have rolling releases, only stable ones. But some of that other stuff... They really want to just surrender to the system. I wouldn't trust half of that info on accounts to be shared online that would autosync like that.

Maybe my mom figured out Mint so well because she isn't expecting any of that shit. She just wanted a place to use her e-mail, messaging apps, browse the internet and remote access the company PC where she would do stuff. She basically went from 2006 to 2022 straight.

They really are gonna have to accept the buttplug verification of Windows 13 at this point. I pity them.