Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

I'm sure someone posted a thing in a previous thread which was about advice/tactics Russian conscripts were given where they were claiming shit like you could shoot out the sights on tanks using small arms etc, but damned if I can find the thing again. Was basically the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer made real and it was fucking hilarious.
You just don't get it. The Russians have such brilliant tactics. How the fuck are those filthy hohols going to defend against these supersoldier moves? The boyband bowlcuts give you extra strength you see?

 
What the hell was up with that dummy rasing an AK-74 at the tank? Did he think he was going to head shot the tank commander or whittle down the tank's HP bar like in a video game?

I'm sure someone posted a thing in a previous thread which was about advice/tactics Russian conscripts were given where they were claiming shit like you could shoot out the sights on tanks using small arms etc, but damned if I can find the thing again. Was basically the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer made real and it was fucking hilarious.
Alright, call me a vatnik but you two are out to lunch. [Powerlevel] For a decade I was a zogbot in a NATO military [/powerlevel] and this was exactly what we were told to do. The only videogamey belief here is that armoured vehicles have magic hitboxes that prevent damage from small arms. In this case, the Russian trainers would be correct in that they do indeed have things such as optics and mirrors that can be damaged by small calibers, which would, at the very least, keep the crew from unbuttoning and reduce their visibility.

Hell, I remember training troops on a SAT (virtual rifle range) and having another NCO jack the troopaloops up because they stopped shooting as soon as a BMP showed up, precisely because they all thought in video game terms and assumed armour was invulnerable.
 
Tomislav Corruptovich 'accidentally' lost their AT weapons into the back of an unmarked civilian van, very common occurrence tovarisch )))))
but they're manning a trench, how are they supposed to defend their position without it?
i dont know shit about infantry tactics or unit composition, but when you have a defensive position, you want it to be defensible against vehicles, no? actually, in general, in almost all situations where infantry operate, being able to actually fight enemy vehicles seems very important to me
 
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Alright, call me a vatnik but you two are out to lunch. [Powerlevel] For a decade I was a zogbot in a NATO military [/powerlevel] and this was exactly what we were told to do. The only videogamey belief here is that armoured vehicles have magic hitboxes that prevent damage from small arms. In this case, the Russian trainers would be correct in that they do indeed have things such as optics and mirrors that can be damaged by small calibers, which would, at the very least, keep the crew from unbuttoning and reduce their visibility.

Hell, I remember training troops on a SAT (virtual rifle range) and having another NCO jack the troopaloops up because they stopped shooting as soon as a BMP showed up, precisely because they all thought in video game terms and assumed armour was invulnerable.
Buddy that's just cope to try to keep infantry with nothing but small arms from running the moment they see armor

The chance of small arms disabling enough scopes and mirrors that the driver and/or commander have to unbutton is slightly better the chance of one tonk sending a shell right down the tube of the other tonk's gun

They can tell you whatever they want, it has no bearing on how effective what they tell you is. We have 80 years of data of grunts with rifles and machine guns opening up on armor and doing fuck all 999,999 times out of a million, including against scopes and mirrors. At best you might distract the crew enough that someone else can get close enough to toss a grenade or satchel charge and maybe do some real damage
 
Buddy that's just cope to try to keep infantry with nothing but small arms from running the moment they see armor

The chance of small arms disabling enough scopes and mirrors that the driver and/or commander have to unbutton is slightly better the chance of one tonk sending a shell right down the tube of the other tonk's gun

They can tell you whatever they want, it has no bearing on how effective what they tell you is. We have 80 years of data of grunts with rifles and machine guns opening up on armor and doing fuck all 999,999 times out of a million, including against scopes and mirrors. At best you might distract the crew enough that someone else can get close enough to toss a grenade or satchel charge and maybe do some real damage
Ok Rambo.
 
but they're manning a trench, how are they supposed to defend their position without it?
i dont know shit about infantry tactics or unit composition, but when you have a defensive position, you want it to be defensible against vehicles, no? actually, in general, in almost all situations where infantry operate, being able to actually fight enemy vehicles seems very important to me
Other than standard Slavic corruption spiriting their AT weapons away, my other guess would be that they simply didn't have them at the ready when this tank rolled up. When most of your guys are dying to aliexpress drones and artillery fire you start leaving unused heavy AT weapons at camp.

Tank probably rolled up and opened fire before they could go get them.
 
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Alright, call me a vatnik but you two are out to lunch. [Powerlevel] For a decade I was a zogbot in a NATO military [/powerlevel] and this was exactly what we were told to do. The only videogamey belief here is that armoured vehicles have magic hitboxes that prevent damage from small arms. In this case, the Russian trainers would be correct in that they do indeed have things such as optics and mirrors that can be damaged by small calibers, which would, at the very least, keep the crew from unbuttoning and reduce their visibility.

Hell, I remember training troops on a SAT (virtual rifle range) and having another NCO jack the troopaloops up because they stopped shooting as soon as a BMP showed up, precisely because they all thought in video game terms and assumed armour was invulnerable.
is shooting out mirrors and optics actually realistic and feasible?
it's probably gonna happen if you have some dude with a heavy belt fed machine gun saturating the tank with hundreds of bullets, eventually one will hit something that breaks, but if you're just a dude with a rifle it seems near impossible to identify, aim, and hit a tiny target like that on a vehicle.
 
you can draw so many parallels to WW1 Where the front didn't move for like 3years until the new invention codename "Tank" (to confuse the enemy) and the massive hit with sanctions where Germany couldn't get any new raw materials/resources to fund the war

I Wonder if they're gonna invent a new death machine that's going to end it.
 
is shooting out mirrors and optics actually realistic and feasible?
it's probably gonna happen if you have some dude with a heavy belt fed machine gun saturating the tank with hundreds of bullets, eventually one will hit something that breaks, but if you're just a dude with a rifle it seems near impossible to identify, aim, and hit a tiny target like that on a vehicle.
I doubt it considering the lenses of MBTs are made from rugged material designed to withstand shit blowing up around it. These tanks, especially the earlier designed Russian MBTs were designed to roll round in nuclear wastelands with nasty anti infantry weapons blowing up around them. A couple rounds of 5.45 aren't going to compromise lenses built to not spiderweb or shatter with grenades and bombs blowing up around them. Not to mention these things have more than one optic or periscope. Let's say you do your best Solid Snake impression and take out the main gun's optic. You now have the coaxal gun's optic, the commander's sights and maybe even a remote operated turret gun you need to take out next before they dial you in and turn you into red mist. Lastly, the AK-74's maximum effective range for a point target is 500 meters according to the Russians and a tank's weapons can start fucking you with ease before you close that distance.
 
but they're manning a trench, how are they supposed to defend their position without it?
i dont know shit about infantry tactics or unit composition, but when you have a defensive position, you want it to be defensible against vehicles, no? actually, in general, in almost all situations where infantry operate, being able to actually fight enemy vehicles seems very important to me
That sounds like a you problem, comrade.
 
you can draw so many parallels to WW1 Where the front didn't move for like 3years until the new invention codename "Tank" (to confuse the enemy) and the massive hit with sanctions where Germany couldn't get any new raw materials/resources to fund the war

I Wonder if they're gonna invent a new death machine that's going to end it.
It better be mechs or I'm gonna be very disappointed. Not Gundam fairy unicorn mechs, I want my fuckin' Steel Batallion VT mechs that look like they run on diesel and black sludge.
 
Alright, call me a vatnik but you two are out to lunch. [Powerlevel] For a decade I was a zogbot in a NATO military [/powerlevel] and this was exactly what we were told to do. The only videogamey belief here is that armoured vehicles have magic hitboxes that prevent damage from small arms. In this case, the Russian trainers would be correct in that they do indeed have things such as optics and mirrors that can be damaged by small calibers, which would, at the very least, keep the crew from unbuttoning and reduce their visibility.

Hell, I remember training troops on a SAT (virtual rifle range) and having another NCO jack the troopaloops up because they stopped shooting as soon as a BMP showed up, precisely because they all thought in video game terms and assumed armour was invulnerable.
I mean, in the particular situation in the video I don't see why he'd risk it. I can see the benefit of small arms fire at distracting the tank crew from antitank assets, especially when you're dug into a defensive position, and I've seen a recommendation of machinegun fire to damage APS' as a last resort. I wouldn't bank on hitting its optics though, especially if it's firing back.
Maybe I'm off-base though. I am just a hobbyist.
 
I doubt it considering the lenses of MBTs are made from rugged material designed to withstand shit blowing up around it. These tanks, especially the earlier designed Russian MBTs were designed to roll round in nuclear wastelands with nasty anti infantry weapons blowing up around them. A couple rounds of 5.45 aren't going to compromise lenses built to not spiderweb or shatter with grenades and bombs blowing up around them. Not to mention these things have more than one optic or periscope. Let's say you do your best Solid Snake impression and take out the main gun's optic. You now have the coaxal gun's optic, the commander's sights and maybe even a remote operated turret gun you need to take out next before they dial you in and turn you into red mist. Lastly, the AK-74's maximum effective range for a point target is 500 meters according to the Russians and a tank's weapons can start fucking you with ease before you close that distance.
Tank doctrine includes large amount of training and equipment around defensive operations against infantry. A military doesn't want to outsource defending million dollar tanks to the nearest available reserve unit.

Vulnerability​

Despite being a powerful weapon and an impressive sight on the battlefield, the tank is vulnerable. In fact, the tank's effectiveness has led to massive development of antitank weapons.

A MBT without infantry support is a sitting duck

Infantry​

Despite a tank's long-range firepower and shock action against inexperienced infantry, unsupported tanks are vulnerable to attacks by foot soldiers when attacking defensive positions, in close terrain, and in built up areas. Tank weapons have blind spots below their minimum depression, and a tank's suspension and relatively thin rear and top armour are vulnerable to attacks from nearby and from the upper storeys of buildings.

A sticky bomb is something like a molotov cocktail. A platoon doesn't need to disable the tank. They can just disable the crew by smoking them out or destroying the treads or even bending the barrel with a well placed mortar round.
There were a notable example of a Palestinian soldier crawling up an israeli tank and disabling the main barrel by bending it with the force of a anti-personal hand grenade thrown only a few yards away exploding next to the barrel just forward of the turret causing he crew to flee the disabled tank on liveleak, may it rest in peace.
Tanks generally operate with closely coordinated infantry support to protect them from enemy infantry.

Infantry antitank weapons include early petrol bombs and antitank rifles, antitank hand grenades, magnetic mines and sticky bombs, and various handheld shaped-charge weapons including bazookas, RPGs and antitank guided missiles (ATGM).

And there is always the grenade down the barrel trick.

16 Jul 2015 | Posted by John_Nap
During a firefight in Syria, a fighter runs up to a T-72 tank and throws a grenade down the barrel of the tank.

 
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Love this. Now all that remains to be done is Mossad the responsible Russians if found guilty, I assume in absentia, kidnap/drug them, and bring them to justice the good ol' Israeli way.
It's sure to make both tankies and low IQ rightoids seethe.
(sadly, I know that won't happen, cause ICC is helpless, but I still want it to have a glownigger agency at their disposal)
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Also there are multiple gayops and happenings in Moldova, with protests, arrests, and indications that pro-Russian elements (gotta be ambiguous cause we just don't yet know) tried to stage paid protests to destabilize the pro-EU government. It's all a bit murky right now and the stories in the news are rather rudimentary and lacking actual data, but something's going on.
 
That sounds like a you problem, comrade.
"Comrade, did we not teach you how to destroy tank with bare hands and smekalka?"

For those who didn't watch that Paper Skies video I linked, "smekalka" is a word that best translates out as "Russian problems require Russian solutions". Its what you get when Russians improvise a solution to a problem when none of them are familiar in the slightest with the actual concepts involved in trying to solve such a problem.

So, for example, when told to paint a gate yellow to make it stand out bright against the green environment so the TV seeker head can find it so nobody is embarrassed in front of the government by poor performance, you go out and paint the bright white road leading up to the gate yellow as well since hey, making everything easier to spot in a sea of green should mean the missiles can home in better, right? And then the missile goes chasing after the road because its got a higher contrast against the forest than the gate does. Repeat ad nauseum.
It better be mechs or I'm gonna be very disappointed. Not Gundam fairy unicorn mechs, I want my fuckin' Steel Batallion VT mechs that look like they run on diesel and black sludge.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mackie
1678758742241.png
Close enough?
Love this. Now all that remains to be done is Mossad the responsible Russians if found guilty, I assume in absentia, kidnap/drug them, and bring them to justice the good ol' Israeli way.
It's sure to make both tankies and low IQ rightoids seethe.
(sadly, I know that won't happen, cause ICC is helpless, but I still want it to have a glownigger agency at their disposal)
Anyone of that .gif of Putin just smugly chuckling? I believe a fair chunk of the Bush admin was marked by the ICC for their involvement in enhanced interrogation techniques, so naturally I don't really hold them in a lot of esteem, nor would Putin since who the fuck is going to arrest him?
 
I still want it to have a glownigger agency at their disposal
you do not want a bunch of UN affiliated career bureaucrats and associated globalist cronies in the hague to have that kind of power.
you think you do, but you don't. if these types had the ability to do cia blacksite stuff at will, the result would be more catastrophic than all the worst excesses of the cia, the stasi and the nkvd combined.
people already dislike that national glowie agencies lack oversight and accountability, and an institution like the icc is MUCH further removed from any possible oversight or accountibility than even the cia or fsb are.
 
you can draw so many parallels to WW1 Where the front didn't move for like 3years until the new invention codename "Tank" (to confuse the enemy) and the massive hit with sanctions where Germany couldn't get any new raw materials/resources to fund the war

I Wonder if they're gonna invent a new death machine that's going to end it.
They tried with the bmpt terminator
 
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Also there are multiple gayops and happenings in Moldova, with protests, arrests, and indications that pro-Russian elements (gotta be ambiguous cause we just don't yet know) tried to stage paid protests to destabilize the pro-EU government. It's all a bit murky right now and the stories in the news are rather rudimentary and lacking actual data, but something's going on.
I was told that only the globohomo West is capable of performing this arcane art of "buying protests", so you must be lying!
 
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