Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Jewthulhu]

That, and to a large extent public support has shifted further and further in favor of providing aid to Ukraine. It may not seem like it at times but internationally Russia is not doing itself any favors, and its looking more like a black/white underdog story every day over there, and we Americans are suckers for those.

From what I understand conservative opinion has shifted away. Went from 6% against at the start to now it's 46%. I believe DeSantis and Trump have both also talked about wanting to cut aid. Either way, Russian influence ops are probably going to go hard on the "we're giving Ukraine too much" meme come the primaries and election and there's a good chance it'll be effective enough to make it a partisan issue.

 

[AgendaPoster]

From what I understand conservative opinion has shifted away. Went from 6% against at the start to now it's 46%. I believe DeSantis and Trump have both also talked about wanting to cut aid. Either way, Russian influence ops are probably going to go hard on the "we're giving Ukraine too much" meme come the primaries and election and there's a good chance it'll be effective enough to make it a partisan issue.

There's a lot of Ukraine fatigue, some of it understandable. On both left and right, but because Russia is presenting as a traditional society fighting for Christianity, the bigger impact is on the right, which is infuriating, but out of our control.
There are a number of things that US and allied administrations could do to diminish this fatigue so support can continue without significant opposition, but it will not happen. For example, it should not even be debatable that US citizens that are stricken with poverty and suffering from pandemic/war fallout should enjoy similar levels of financial help. It's frustrating to see billions going with so much ease to Ukraine, but if you got severe COVID and have to pay some hospital a few thousands of USD for ICU and the sort, you'll get nothing.
Second, all the progressive encouragement must stop. Stop inviting trannies to the WH. Stop having official tweets about the evils of RW fascists. Stop promoting Pride and BLM. Simply shut up, no need to do anything right wing or extreme, just put an end to the normalization. Stop giving fuel to the outrage machine.
BE NORMAL.
Won't happen though.
It's tragic that so many rightoids in the West see Ukraine through the lens of idiotic culture wars, when we have so many victims (hundreds of thousands, this number must be imprinted in the minds of people, so they understand the enormity of what is going on). But it's also unavoidable because Western countries made social progressivism their battering ram against their political opposition. It's not a sincere thing. We all know Biden and most of his admin are married, religious, and live in secluded communities of rich (often white) people. But it's a great cudgel against those obnoxious shitheads that dare oppose them.
There's also a real danger that parts of the left will pragmatically side with the right on this. I listen quite regularly to people like Greenwald, which I should probably stop doing, but it's pretty OK content for my runs. Jimmy Dore, even Secular Talk, the Grayzone and everyone associated, Michael Tracey, there are quite a few of these that would immediately stop helping Ukraine and let it collapse without a care in the world.
People need to understand that maintaining support from the West is more vital than 100 Leopards. And the West is full of contradictions and inner struggles, and quite unreliable, which should be fixed, without assuming that it will just last forever as a hegemonic force.

 

[Ghostse]

Also, anyone want to go drone-fishing after the war?

This makes me think of my grandfather talking about going fishing in WWII. Cookie wants some fish, so you go take some hand grenades out the to closest lake.

Russia sending T-55s/54s into Ukraine is even more solid proof that this war is going incredibly badly for them. Any claims to the contrary are just an example of blatant coping. I'm going to laugh my ass off if they eventually start using T-34/85s in any role at all in this war.

I don't know how you can see tanks from Korea-era being activated and not be utter floored by the desperation. It'd be bad if Ukraine was using them, but Ukraine is getting invaded by a country 4 times its size. Russia can't take them out without activating the immediate post-WWII stock. SAD!

The Vatniks love to "Muh M60" pointing to all the M60s in storage, and that would probably need to be reactivated in some real shit went down, while ignoring that every one of the M60s in US inventory were upgraded to A3 level, getting upgrades in the mid-80s (which ignores the bolt-on ERA improvements). The T-55s and T-62s haven't received updates since the first Superbowl.

decapitation is hard because you're trying to cut through a big chunk of mucle, sinew, cartilage and bone. but you don't need such brutality to kill, a simple stab into the throat with a knife will do just fine for that purpose, and that takes very little force.

Just stabbing however leaves a weakening but still alive opponent.
I remember on some D&D forum some guy was talking about mall ninjas, and I want you say that you'd have to bury the blade you've studying at least an inch into your side of beef for it be enough force to be something that will be successful in removing you target as a threat, and it could still be a could minutes until they lose enough blood. So do that over and over until you are too tired to lift your sword and then remember this was a side of beef that wasn't moving, fighting back, or wearing armor.

Also, good fucking luck getting some guy to stand still enough to get stabbed in the throat, while he's trying to stab you.

I know the Soviets used T-55's T-62's and even T-72's in Afghanistan in the 80's. But that was against a bunch of rag tag guerillas. They are sending these tanks into Ukraine with Ukrainians trained in NATO tactics and equipped with new models of ATGM's. I can understand them being used in Afghanistan but not in Ukraine. Afghanistan was a low intensity conflict. Nothing like Ukraine. Though I know the NATO training the Ukrainians were given has them using a hybrid style warfare.

I guess Russia will be added back to the list of T-55/54 operators on Wikipedia.

They lied about scrapping their older tanks and they lied about the number of newer late Cold War tanks they had. At this point it's like if Russia's mouth is moving they are lying.
Most modern tanks have NBC systems I imagine. That's Nuclear Biological and Chemical. I doubt they stopped using them.
When you start seeing videos and pictures if Ukrainian captured T-55's and 54's you will know. Maybe we will see some T-55/54 wrecks. T-55 turrets flying in the air.

The T-55 is a "better than nothing"
As others said, other than the fact its thirsty the T-55 can still mount a gun that while it won't take out a MBT it wouldnt' be fun to get shot by and would take out an IFV. My assumption is that they'll be deploying them along the line to shore up defenses and prevent another Khariv. They won't be able to hold the line, but their presence will make hit-and-run raiding more difficult and if Ukraine pulls another armroed thrust in a place Russia isn't ready, they might be able to buy Russia some valuable time to respond.

Of course a lot of this really depends on Russia actually responding like a competent modern military and not in the way they've been doing.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

Mophine ampules found in a Wagner's k-pot. No word if it belonged to a medic, though I doubt they would keep morphine in their helmet, unless it's for personal use and/or safeguard against theft.

But then again, keeping the dope on your dome would be a pretty secure & safe spot, medic or not; unless/until they take a headshot.

Edit:
Recently there's been videos of dogs with their tails cut off by Russians, when they pushed out of their old positions. Now they're leaving cat ears hanging on branches. I'm not going to repost that shit, and it's also not the first time I've seen the Russians leave behind mutilated pets. I figure besides the average sadists, they do it out of anger as well; since they're been getting their shit kicked on the regular, with no way to vent frustration (besides hitting hospitals & medics).

 

[prolapsed_cranium]

Mophine ampules found in a Wagner's k-pot. No word if it belonged to a medic, though I doubt they would keep morphine in their helmet, unless it's for personal use and/or safeguard against theft.

View attachment 4881297
But then again, keeping the dope on your dome would be a pretty secure & safe spot, medic or not; unless/until they take a heheadshot.

Keeps it warm in the winter.

 

[Cpt. Stud Beefpile]

Didn't star citizen at least finally come out at the very end where the operation in Bakhmut is still up for debate.

No. There is still no official date for a beta or full release of Star Citizen after a motherfucking decade, to the best of my knowledge. (disclaimer: I quit following the saga of that travesty for my own mental health)

You may be thinking of "No Man's Sky", which was ALSO accused of being a fraud for years but eventually did catch up to the initial promised state. Even surpassed it, perhaps.

Bakhmut is somewhere between the two, currently. There is certainly room for Ukraine to get kicked out if the Putinites get their motherfucking act together. But the initial, chest-puffed "Ve Vill BURY you!" promises of the invaders have fallen apart like wet ashes in a hurricane, to the point that denying it is Baghdad Bob levels of delusion.

 

[Melmac_Knight]

Russia is moving its museum pieces to a safe place, hopefully not to the front

 

[Trig.Point]

From what I understand conservative opinion has shifted away. Went from 6% against at the start to now it's 46%. I believe DeSantis and Trump have both also talked about wanting to cut aid. Either way, Russian influence ops are probably going to go hard on the "we're giving Ukraine too much" meme come the primaries and election and there's a good chance it'll be effective enough to make it a partisan issue.

All the Twitterati with Ukrainian flags in their bios have some powerful weapons. They can point to destroyed Russian tanks, major Russian defeats, and multiple economic/political crisis within Russia.

It's not like Afghan, where various warlords are pocketing the cash meant to help the national girls robotics team compete in international competitions.

The Ukrainians are delivering. Plenty of dead Russian soldiers, lots of video of Russian tanks brewing up. A Ukrainian president who can put on a proper press conference and give the international media what they want.

Ukraine is winning, and the west hasn't backed a winner in a long time.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Russia is moving its museum pieces to a safe place, hopefully not to the front
View attachment 4881517

Can a Katyusha fire a modern rocket? I mean, it's shocking it's even moving but just like a T55 is still a Tank, a Katyusha is still a rocket launcher.

Also, I don't even speak Russian and I understand perfectly what that man is saying.

fucking shit
Fucking shit
Look at that fucking shit
It's a fucking katyusha
What the fuck is a katyusha doing here?
It's going to fucking bakhmut isn't it!
Fucking shit
Is this your idea putin?
Is it Putin?
PUTIN?!

 

[Melmac_Knight]

Russia is moving its museum pieces to a safe place, hopefully not to the front
View attachment 4881517

Also, I don't even speak Russian and I understand perfectly what that man is saying.

fucking shit
Fucking shit
Look at that fucking shit
It's a fucking katyusha
What the fuck is a katyusha doing here?
It's going to fucking bakhmut isn't it!
Fucking shit
Is this your idea putin?
Is it Putin?
PUTIN?!

close

holy shit you guys, holy shit
thats it Katyushas are going, normal (quality) Katyushas
next what do we see, next we see cannon, carrying a cannon/gun, also normal (quality) American vehicles, which were filmed in one really famous film, famous film, take a guess "meeting place can not be changed" (film from 1979 that takes place in 1945).
next what do we see, next we see gas truck really good quality,seems like they're going to war on/to Saint Petersburg (mocking tone, might be a reference to the movie idk haven't watched "meeting place can not be changed").
next what do we see exactly the same vehicle, sharply going straight, ogh beautiful.
next we see another variant of that same cannon/gun and our famous "Polutorka" (the name of the truck).
these are our strengths guys.
Putin, PUUTIN!! Czar Putin

this isn't direct translation but it has the same message

 

[mindlessobserver]

All the Twitterati with Ukrainian flags in their bios have some powerful weapons. They can point to destroyed Russian tanks, major Russian defeats, and multiple economic/political crisis within Russia.

It's not like Afghan, where various warlords are pocketing the cash meant to help the national girls robotics team compete in international competitions.

The Ukrainians are delivering. Plenty of dead Russian soldiers, lots of video of Russian tanks brewing up. A Ukrainian president who can put on a proper press conference and give the international media what they want.

Ukraine is winning, and the west hasn't backed a winner in a long time.

Pretty much this. Having a foreign leader not run at the first sign of trouble? Valuable. Having his Army ALSO not run at the first sign of trouble? Very valuable. That leader and Army running the consistent enemy of the American Empire through a buzz saw? Priceless.

For everything else there's mastercard. And copious amounts of US aid. The idea in Russia that somehow the US and the EU are going to get bored and stop handing zelensky a blank check is so much hopium. This entire war has been the most efficient use of US aid since the USA gave the UK all our mothballed World War 1 destroyers to fight the Germans. It's not going to stop any time soon

 

[Racist Trash]

Russia is moving its museum pieces to a safe place, hopefully not to the front
View attachment 4881517

Wonder if they are moving them to have one of their good old WW2 nostalgia parades to increase moral.

 

[GatorAids]

@AgendaPoster reply bug.
All the people on the right who are bitching about aid are retards of the highest order. Screaming about how we're spending money on other countries.

Pop quiz! Which is more valuable?
A: Spending a few hundred billion grinding down Russia, gaining valuable intel, and scaring Xi off of a potential Taiwan invasion
Or
B:Another 100 billion dollar "infrastructure" bill where all the infrastructure is medical machines to troon out kids

They're like retards who scream that taxation is theft but don't take advantage of welfare or unemployment even though it's basically recovering your stolen money.

 

[WhiteNight]

Pop quiz! Which is more valuable?
A: Spending a few hundred billion grinding down Russia, gaining valuable intel, and scaring Xi off of a potential Taiwan invasion
Or
B:Another 100 billion dollar "infrastructure" bill where all the infrastructure is medical machines to troon out kids

But this isn't even the dilemma. There's nothing we've had to forgo because of what we're spending on Ukraine. For example, those who say we should instead be protecting our own border seem to believe that were it not for these Ukraine expenditures, we'd have the money to build the wall (or something). But in fact it would change nothing; the border is open because Biden and his enablers want it open.

 

[draggs]

I wonder how well a Sturmovik would stand up to a Stinger

btw you know what was the standard vehicle for putting Katyusha racks on from 1943 to the end of the war? The Lend-Lease provided American Studebaker 6x6 2.5 ton truck. Another example of how the USSR couldn't have beat duh Nerzis without Murica

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

I wonder how well a Sturmovik would stand up to a Stinger

Obtaining an IR lock wouldn't be impossible, just definitely not all-aspect; and the same goes for things like the An-2. The exhaust on those things is pretty fuckin hot, so the missile would tend to track straight for the engine/center-section rather than the tail (unless it was directly behind).

Not so good for the plane, but that armor around the cockpit might keep most of the shrapnel out. Still, if the Germans had been given Stingers & the means to replicate them, at least a few Il-2s would've been hit & brought down by them. And since Hitler would've insisted on mounting them to fighters, maybe a couple British night bombers or B-17s too.

 

[SBG]

A former construction worker is hatching a plan to use fake passports to smuggle in fighters from Pakistan and Iran.

Sounds wise. Completely bonkers, that we have to obey "democratic rule of law" in the West and can't just recruit the lowlife niggers in our prison for our own Wagner group. Drop a bunch of Syrians at gunpoint in Bakhmut and let them hold the position with maxim guns. Why should 18 year old Ukrainian students waste their life to defend the European external borders while rapefugees can chill on NEET bucks? Fuck globohomo and all this law crap.

>muh penal battalions are not effective
just wait until the first few try to surrender to Wagner - the rest will fight for their lives

Surprised about Vasquez since I'd seen people gloating about him being a fake and then the big fakery was just about his time in the US military?

Then it comes out they wanted to get their own mercenaries into Ukraine?

Lot of this sounds like they had a bunch of regular people try joining in with their own stupid ideas of what to do leading to some stupid spending decisions, but still they're actually going over there and trying to do bullshit which is something I guess.

Still would be nicer if the US got more involved in organizing Ukraine's troops.

 

[MG-34]

Can a Katyusha fire a modern rocket? I mean, it's shocking it's even moving but just like a T55 is still a Tank, a Katyusha is still a rocket launcher.

Also, I don't even speak Russian and I understand perfectly what that man is saying.

fucking shit
Fucking shit
Look at that fucking shit
It's a fucking katyusha
What the fuck is a katyusha doing here?
It's going to fucking bakhmut isn't it!
Fucking shit
Is this your idea putin?
Is it Putin?
PUTIN?!

They could probably make some improvised rockets like the Al Quassam. That being said that thing seems to have rockets on it and is likely a privately owned peice or a literal museum exhibit.

 

[EyeGuy]

oh no culdronbros...

Link | Archive

Russian forces have been pushed out of one of the key roads in the contested eastern city of Bakhmut, a Ukrainian military official said Saturday.

Ukrainian soldiers “managed to push the enemy away” from "the road of life" in Bakhmut for a “considerable distance,” making it impossible for Russia to keep the road under fire control, said Yuriy Fedorenko, a Ukrainian military officer.

Ukrainian forces have “improved their position” in the city, Fedorenko added, though he acknowledged "the fighting is tough."

He said Ukraine is "holding the line in the most difficult areas" and have had some tactical successes.

According to Fedorenko, Russia’s forces are “constantly conducting assaults in the Bakhmut direction and are constantly trying to advance.”

Some context: CNN has not been able to independently verify Fedorenko's claims.

It has been difficult to determine exactly where each military's troops stand during the grueling fight for Bakhmut, and Kyiv and Moscow have often offered differing reports on the status of fighting on the ground.

Ukraine's top generals have claimed in recent weeks that Russian forces are depleted in Bakhmut. A Ukrainian counteroffensive could soon be launched, the generals say, raising the prospect of an unlikely turnaround in the besieged city.

Just two more weeks!

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

Russia is moving its museum pieces to a safe place, hopefully not to the front
View attachment 4881517

I suspect we might see a lot of these in preparation for May 9 parade which is just month-ish away, it's a big deal for vatniks.
They might go full WW2 theme this year because they're running out of modern (by their standards) armor kek

@AgendaPoster reply bug.
All the people on the right who are bitching about aid are retards of the highest order. Screaming about how we're spending money on other countries.

Pop quiz! Which is more valuable?
A: Spending a few hundred billion grinding down Russia, gaining valuable intel, and scaring Xi off of a potential Taiwan invasion
Or
B:Another 100 billion dollar "infrastructure" bill where all the infrastructure is medical machines to troon out kids

They're like retards who scream that taxation is theft but don't take advantage of welfare or unemployment even though it's basically recovering your stolen money.

Not very patriotic of republitards to not recognize American geopolitical interest in curbing Putin's expansionism, who's threatening your hegemony.
They don't seem to realize that all the vatniks have a full on Cold War rage boner for America, just because you guys are well over all that, doesn't mean they are. They never let it go, because they're sore fucking losers.