Denial is ridiculous and deniers are delusional.
Ah yes, can't even respond to a post. The peddlers facade begins to break in the face of knowledgeable opposition. So much for 'just want to talk on an intellectual level…' style of HS.
Millions of Jews were deported to the camps and disappeared in German custody; we need an explanation for this (history as a discipline is about creating and testing narratives that explain phenomena).
To disappear you have to appear in the first place. The holocaust is a stupid conspiracy theory about vague numbers of displaced people.
Our explanation for how the Jews disappeared, that they were killed, has a ton of evidence:
non-coercive post-war confessions from perpetrators in all kinds of contexts;
Mostly coerced or pressured through judicial notice. All examined and shown by codoh and revisionists in this thread and literature without further dispute by peddlers indicating tacit acceptance.
numerous contemporaneous documentary references to mass murder policy from the top Nazis including Himmler, Hitler, Goebbels, and Frank; docuementary evidence specifically referring to murder at AUschwitz, Treblinka, and the other death camps;
Not one reference to mass murder. Numerous references to deportation. All examined and shown in codoh and by revisionists in literature and in this thread without further dispute by peddlers indicating tacit acceptance.
forensic evidence such as holes in the roof of crema and HCN residue in the cremas, etc.
No such evidence exists and you can't even make up your mind if it was holes for dumping pesticide straight from the can or holes for the imaginary kula kolumns invented out of thin air to address the obvious technical problems of your own bullshit story.
Nevermind all the other issues a few of which are the air blowers, the different rooms, the doors, the windows and HCN residue in Kremas is expected for delousing operations which were frequent.
Conversely, The denier explanation (resettlement/Jewlantis theory/claiming that a city or nation of millions in the 1940s existed even though we have no traces of evidence for) is flat-earth tier.
That's your stupid characterisation of revisionism given because you lost the debate. No revisionist claims there was a Jewlantis. You even made up that term Jewlantis , as well as a gay meme putting lolcow Matt Heimbach with researcher and chemist Germar Rudolf together, because you got so butthurt right here in this thread at losing the demographic argument.
Deniers also have zero evidence whatsoever of this supposed "hoax" to frame the Germans. Show me one document or witness that points to a plan by the Allies or Soviets to falsely accuse of the Nazis for genocide. Tell me who knew about this policy, who implemented it, when it was decided upon, etc.
We have extensive evidence of stories being made up by interested groups during the war. Detailed here;
You deniers can focus on minutiae and LARP as having some kind of technical expertise all you want.
Thank you. We do have the technical expertise and we do focus on the minutiae. You are unable to do the same because you're a fraud.
Or you can act as if the fact the sparing of able bodied Jews and health care at Auschwitz for slave laborers valuable to the war effort—a fact that that was mentioned in 1947 in one of the first memoirs on Auschwitz, Primo Levi's If This is a Man—proves they wanted to spare *all* Jews. (This is a logical fallacy called the "fallacy of composition," by the way.)
There's no evidence in any Auschwitz documents be it health or general camp administration that the idea wasn't to save all Jews. No distinction was ever made. This accords with the official camp and general government regulations as I detailed. In Levi's book "Survival in Auschwitz," we have his words for January 17th, 1945:
"It was not a question of reasoning: I would probably also have followed the instinct of the flock if I had not felt so weak: fear is supremely contagious, and its immediate reaction is to make one try to run away."
We see here that Levi wanted to leave with the retreating Germans for fear of the approaching Soviets, but was too ill.
Similarly with Elie Weizel in "Night" :
"The choice was in our hands. For once we could decide our fate for ourselves. We could both stay in the hospital, where I could, thanks to my doctor, get him [the father] entered as a patient or nurse. Or else we could follow the others. 'Well, what shall we do, father?' He was silent. 'Let's be evacuated with the others,' I told him.""
These famous jews writing their memoirs both admit that they feared the Soviets more than the nazis. Another kick in the teeth of the lying holocaust peddler.
But the ridiculousness of denial remains intact. You need an explanation, with evidence, for how these millions disappeared in Nazi custody (Nazi camp systems) if you want to have a serious conversation. You have no such explanation and hence you try to shift the conversation from the big picture to minutiae.
Accusations that vague millions disappeared then expecting everyone else to find them for you just won't do HS. And the relevant demographic statistics have been dealt with on this thread to everyone's satisfaction while you turned tale and ran when real revisionist research was brought up. Btfo'd on codoh, absent here, posting stupid videos no one watches re hashing the same old peddler shit. Where are you going with all this? Just join Yad Vashem, never speak to a revisionist again and be done with this nonsense.
To be sure, you are equally misinformed about the minutiae as you are the big picture. Take Belzec and Kola's studies.
Zo's guy Mattogno admits that the graves Kola found were large enough to accomodate 170,000 people. His calculation is an underestimate (he is underestimating the % at Belzec who were children), but let us accept it for argument's sake. How on earth does digging mass graves big enough for 170,000 persons support the idea of Belzec being a "transit camp"? Why on earth would so many people die and need to be buried at a "transit" camp where (according to deniers) they only spent a brief "layover" before "resettlement"?
Quoting Mattogno:
On the other hand, the surface area of the graves identified by Kola is 5,919 square meters and their volume 21,310 cubic meters, theoretically sufficient to inter (21,310×8=) 170,480 corpses
If you opened your eyes, you would see that the existence of these massive mass graves (acknowledged by Mattogno), with the capacity to inter 170,000 people (by Mattogno's estimate which I adopt for argument's sake), which contain relatively few corpses but lots of random human remains (layers of fat, etc) corroborate Sonderaktion 1005, i.e. the Nazi order to dig up and burn corpses buried at many of the camps in anticipation of Soviet liberation. But you prefer to live in a fantasy world where the Nazis not only did not exterminate the Jews, but were pro-Slav, anti-capitalist, etc. This is obviously an emotional thing for you since there is no rational reason to believe these things.
HS, you partially quote Mattogno without citation like the utter fraud you are. With a citation added readers could immediately read Mattogno's full argument, here is the full paragraph of section 4.2 ;
"4.2. Capacity of the Graves On the basis of experimental data, the maximum capacity of a mass grave
can be set at 8 corpses per cubic meter, assuming that one third of them are children.260 Hence, the alleged 600,000 corpses at Bełżec would have required a total volume of (600,000÷8=) 75,000 cubic meters. The average depth of the graves identified by Professor Kola is 3.90 meters. Assuming a layer of earth 0.3 m thick to cover the graves, the available depth would be 3.60 meters.261 It follows that the burial of 600,000 corpses would have required an effective area of (75,000÷3.6 =) approx. 20,800 square meters. On the other hand, the surface area of the graves identified by Kola is 5,919 square meters and their volume 21,310 cubic meters, theoretically sufficient to inter (21,310×8=) 170,480 corpses
– but then where would the other (600,000 – 170,480 =) 429,520 corpses have been put?"
Why would you just miss that part out HS? Not a good look for you.
Mattogno's study then covers wood required, duration of cremation, the weight of Ash, soil removed from the graves before coming to the actual surface area of the graves where he again mentions this theoretical space for 170,480 bodies.
"4.7. Actual Surface Area of the Graves The official thesis of the extermination of 600,000 (or hundreds of thousands) of persons at Bełżec is therefore in contradiction on every count with the material data we have examined. Still, according to Kola’s statements, 33 mass graves were dug within the camp. How many corpses did they actually contain? In section 4.2. we have calculated that they would have had a capacity of some 170,500 corpses. But since this purely theoretical figure is already destroying the Holocaust
pretense of a mass extermination allegedly perpetrated at Bełżec, it cannot, at the same time, be accepted as a working hypothesis to determine the full scope of the facts.
Either an extermination of at least 434,500 Jews (the figure resulting from the report of SS-Sturmbannführer Höfle of April 28, 1943) did indeed take place at Bełżec,
…… or there was no mass extermination at all, for if we accept a lower number – for example the hypothetical 170,500 victims mentioned above – the result would be that the remaining 264,000 deportees were taken elsewhere – alive and kicking – away from the Bełżec camp."
See attached for the relevant sections in full.
He then concludes;
"In conclusion, the mass graves at Bełżec are absolutely incompatible with
the burial of 600,000 bodies, even if we include a large number of children among the dead.
Mass extermination excluded, there is thus only one assumption which could explain the presence at Bełżec of mass graves and corpses: the revisionist thesis.
As we will see in the following chapter, at Bełżec deaths of detainees from
epidemics (such as typhus) were recorded as early as the spring of 1940, and many other deaths were recorded in succeeding months, when the site became a very harsh hard labor camp.
In later phases of the story of Bełżec, the arrival of transports under disastrous conditions – such as the one from Kolomea on September 10, 1942, with 2,000 dead on board – added thousands of bodies to the mass graves of the camp.
To this we must add the natural mortality among the approximate 434,000 Jews transferred to Bełżec. Although it is impossible to establish the number of these deaths, it is nonetheless possible to infer, from what has been discussed above, an order of magnitude of several thousands, perhaps even some tens of thousands."
Happy to cover the pro slav and anti capitalism aspects of the third Reich also again.
