Car Thread - VROOM VROOM

[Car Won't Crank]

Oh please, not this shit again. Saying an M73 is related to an S70/2 is like saying the smog 305 in an ‘80s chevy truck is related to a cup car engine. The S70/2 barely has any commonality with an S70 let alone an M73. It is a DOHC 48V engine that shares almost zero parts with the SOHC M70 series. The M70s are turds. They make way less power and torque across the board than an M120 and sound like crap, though that has more to do with the headers than the engine. Not to mention they have basically zero performance potential because of its small valve head; the same size as M20 valves. The M70 series of engines also have a similar valvetrain as an M40, which is horrible for anything over 6,500rpm. The M120 specs more similarly to an S70, the M70/73 is miles behind.

Alright the S70/2 comparison is a bit far fetched but the M73 is still a great engine especially as it sits in the E38 and E31 chassis. The W140 is a different kind of car from the E38 and the extra power the M120 has is leveled by the better suspension in the E38, which is more closely related to the E39. M73 also has a leg up on reliability with many at 200k+ miles. The M73 is in the end two M20 together so the valve design shouldn't be a surprise. Both W140 and E38 are great executive saloons, one is just slightly more optimized for the driver and the other for the passenger.

 

[God's drunkest driver]

The M73 is in the end two M20 together so the valve design shouldn't be a surprise.

I'm not trying to be a dick but you should probably actually physically see these engines before just parroting internet myths like M70s being basically two M20s and being the base of the S70/2. An M20 head looks nothing like an M70/73 head, seriously, look it up. They have a way different valvetrain, M70s lack rocker shafts. I have had them in my hands after pulling them from junkyard cars to sell on ebay. They do not share anything but bore spacing, distributor on front, two valve configuration and (M70 not 73) versions of the bosch engine management system. M120s are easily as reliable and durable as M70s. Imagine, if you will, a V12 that is basically the same size as an S70, more common, has better timing chain routing, and makes more power. Put an M120 in any M73 equipped BMW and you've made it more powerful and lost nothing. I won't argue on BMW vs Mercedes, I like different cars and different things about them from each maker, but I will tell you that in my educated opinion M120 is a better engine and an M70 deserves none of the praise it gets when it is miles behind its competition and half of its reputation is based on silly myths like "two M20s" and "the basis of the McLaren F1 engine!".

What is the proper way to patch frame/body rust aside from replacing the part (Car is old and no more NOS)? Older vehicles (30+ years) that are steel, not plastic too.

Donor panel, or fabrication which can be very difficult if the panel is compound curved. Body filler is shitty and it will just rust out again if you haven't removed all of the rusted metal from beneath it. Frame rust is really iffy, you can weld in new steel but you can ruin the heat treatment of the frame and it's hard to bend the thick steel that a frame is made out of. I don't like rusty cars because welding thin sheet metal repair panels without distorting them is difficult at best and bodywork is the most time consuming thing you can do on a car. It'll take you less time to rebuild an engine than to repaint a car properly.

 

[Car Won't Crank]

I'm not trying to be a dick but you should probably actually physically see these engines before just parroting internet myths like M70s being basically two M20s and being the base of the S70/2. An M20 head looks nothing like an M70/73 head, seriously, look it up. They have a way different valvetrain, M70s lack rocker shafts. I have had them in my hands after pulling them from junkyard cars to sell on ebay. They do not share anything but bore spacing, distributor on front, two valve configuration and (M70 not 73) versions of the bosch engine management system. M120s are easily as reliable and durable as M70s. Imagine, if you will, a V12 that is basically the same size as an S70, more common, has better timing chain routing, and makes more power. Put an M120 in any M73 equipped BMW and you've made it more powerful and lost nothing. I won't argue on BMW vs Mercedes, I like different cars and different things about them from each maker, but I will tell you that in my educated opinion M120 is a better engine and an M70 deserves none of the praise it gets when it is miles behind its competition and half of its reputation is based on silly myths like "two M20s" and "the basis of the McLaren F1 engine!".

How is it a myth to imagine the M73 like two M20 configured in a V12? That's obviously a very simplistic way to imagine it, but it's a way to imagine it nonetheless and isn't too far off from the truth. Cylinder heads are a different story but the shortblock can be imagined like that. It's also not a myth to say the F1's S70/2 was had some aspects derived from the M70. Besides, the M120 wasn't used in races to compete against the F1, it was the M120 derived GT112 engine. Both engines have their pros and cons. Benz really goofed with the biodegradable wiring on the W140 and other models of that era. Some of the reputation for the E38 750 also comes from it being a Bond car and a star car in the BMW films. You could make the argument the M120 is the better engine on paper, but as a package I'd say the E38 is a better car even if the M73 is behind the competition. The timing chain routing is also rather moot. The sprocket in the middle is a simple and effective way to keep the chain routed without causing too much abuse on the guides like you see on the M62tu.

 

[God's drunkest driver]

How is it a myth to imagine the M73 like two M20 configured in a V12?

I just spelled it out for you. How do you not get it? I have physically taken these engines apart, you are someone who looked at pictures and read posts on the internet. Your level of reasoning here is "well they're both SOHC BMW engines based on the number six and unnamed internet people said so so one is a multiple of the other" when they have almost nothing in common. Of course the blocks share some characteristics, they're engine blocks, when you look at them they're all similar on many levels, especially across a manufacturer's lineup. The companies have engineering standards, ways they do things, that are similar across their lineups. That's how product development works. You're stuck on the block? Ok. You want some more critical differences between M20 and M70? M20s have an intermediate shaft driven oil pump, M70 pump is chain drive. M20 bearing caps are unsupported two bolt, M70 bearing caps are supported four bolt mains. I feel like I'm forgetting something, oh yeah: M20 is an iron block and was never available as an aluminum block engine, M70 has an aluminum block. And just so you know, if you tried to reuse an iron block design in aluminum, you'd have block failures.

Cylinder heads are where a majority of the magic happens so they are the best thing to compare. This "M70 is two M20s" is a stupid internet myth they have more differences than they do things in common. Is a Chevy LS1 two iron dukes? No. Does it share a couple of characteristics? Yes.

It's also not a myth to say the F1's S70/2 was had some aspects derived from the M70

Now you're moving the goalposts. That isn't what you originally said and it's closer to what I corrected you to.

Again, I am not going to argue E38 vs W140, I don't care enough, I already said I like how the E38 looks . But I know these engines and when someone is wrong about them on the internet I will correct it. Edit: FWIW I owned an old SL600 for a few years and that's why I know the M120. I never actually owned an M70 powered BMW, but I did resell parts for them for a while and one of my customers when I was mechanic-ing my way through college had a V12 E31.

 

[Car Won't Crank]

Of course the blocks share some characteristics, they're engine blocks, when you look at them they're all similar on many levels, especially across a manufacturer's lineup.

That is the whole idea of thinking of the M73 as two M20 combined together. That's all it is. I think you're getting too caught up in the details when we are only looking at it from a bird's eye view. The hyperbole isn't meant to be gospel for mechanics, it's simply a descriptive way to think about the origins of the engine back in the days.

 

[Sneeds]

I think the W140 looks nice, but it definitely depends on the wheels and if it's black.

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The e500 from that generation of Mercedes Benz is one of my “attainable” dream cars. Benz truly peaked in the 90s

 

[CaptainAutism69]

Yea boi, after a year of looking for the 'right' one, I'm finally picking up a Vantage next week. 2005, full service history, goldilocks miles (not too few, not too many), health check came out fine. Manual gearbox of course. This is the one I wanted, not too much power, revvyish engine (I'm coming from an S2000 so I don't know what Torque is), and GREEN .

 

[Car Won't Crank]

Yea boi, after a year of looking for the 'right' one, I'm finally picking up a Vantage next week. 2005, full service history, goldilocks miles (not too few, not too many), health check came out fine. Manual gearbox of course. This is the one I wanted, not too much power, revvyish engine (I'm coming from an S2000 so I don't know what Torque is), and GREEN .

That's a sweet summer ride sure to turn heads. Great upgrade from a S2k. The first gen Vantage has timeless styling that has aged so well.

 

[CaptainAutism69]

That's a sweet summer ride sure to turn heads. Great upgrade from a S2k. The first gen Vantage has timeless styling that has aged so well.

I've had my S2k for over a decade now and will never let go of it, but sometimes I fancy a change, I think the 4.3 is the sweet spot for having fun without losing your loicence. Went for an Evora, but somehow Lotus managed to take a reliable Toyota engine and turn it into an unreliable piece of shit. The first time I went to my car to find the clutch pedal on the floor (thanks to clutch lines so close to the engine that the fluid boils when standing), I almost dropped another bollock.

 

[Car Won't Crank]

I've had my S2k for over a decade now and will never let go of it, but sometimes I fancy a change, I think the 4.3 is the sweet spot for having fun without losing your loicence. Went for an Evora, but somehow Lotus managed to take a reliable Toyota engine and turn it into an unreliable piece of shit. The first time I went to my car to find the clutch pedal on the floor (thanks to clutch lines so close to the engine that the fluid boils when standing), I almost dropped another bollock.

Yeah 380/300 is plenty for street use and v8 power. British engineering designs are weird though I'm not too familiar with them.

 

[Sneeds]

Somewhat car related but car Youtuber HooviesGarage has been selling a lot of cars lately.

People in the comments and autists of /o/ have noticed that he’s not wearing a wedding ring. People thought it was just a coincidence, till he revealed on his latest video that he wasn’t wearing any rings that would’ve caused damage on his rental. Everyone’s speculating that his Asian mail bride is divorcing him

It’s official, A /o/tist found this in the Kansas court records. But in a surprising twist it’s hoovie that is filing the divorce. Not his ex wife.



But it looks like he’s still fucked considering he’s selling more and more cars. And said in his most recent video that. “He will not have his garage for too much longer”

As a anon said “The yellow beast takes all”

 

[Torque Wheeler]

It’s official, A /o/tist found this in the Kansas court records. But in a surprising twist it’s hoovie that is filing the divorce. Not his ex wife.
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But it looks like he’s still fucked considering he’s selling more and more cars. And said in his most recent video that. “He will not have his garage for too much longer”
View attachment 5012562

As a anon said “The yellow beast takes all”

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Golddiggers man. Yeesh

 

[An automatic clown]

Hoover out lived his entertainment value imo. He started by just buying cheap formerly expensive shit heeps and his trials and tribulations with them. It was entertaining trying to fix and drive a Bentley Continental GT on a Honda Civic budget that spent time in Russia mysteriously. Then seemingly overnight a hundred others were doing the same. Then him, tavarish and Ed Bolian literally tried to turn themselves into the Grand Tour/Top Gear trio of YouTube. Now it's like the same canned scenario every time. Buy cheap supercar, bring to Wizard, pay all the money to get it fixed, drive it, take a loss on it. I think I basically tuned out after he bought the Lambos. I believe Hoovers dad is a bad time construction name in Kansas.

I find Car Wizard more entertaining these days. No doubt Wizard owes his success to Hoovers channel taking off. He's kinda the only YouTube car stuff I watch. Sometimes I'll catch WatchJRGo but all these dopes use the same click bait video titles and thumbnails.

Unrelated, watching Rich Rebuilds eat shit legally is gonna be glorious. I do feel bad for his friend who wrecked the kit car though.

Ps. I bought a W124 wagon after I junked a E66 745Li. What a difference. My 911 is still going.

 

[Bassomatic]

Hoovie is like 99.5% of car people. About cars than becomes the show about them, with cars.

Nigger sell me your 911. I'd have bought the old bmw as well.

Yeah cars got sucked into that YT issue, my triumph is worth NOTHING and I have a ton into it and would love to flip for a lesser, but lost that "social pop" I'll keep it and be happy but it's not my dream or something I can flip for profit.

My father in law is geting a 400z finna be hot.

 

[Torque Wheeler]

Hoovie is like 99.5% of car people. About cars than becomes the show about them, with cars.

Nigger sell me your 911. I'd have bought the old bmw as well.

Yeah cars got sucked into that YT issue, my triumph is worth NOTHING and I have a ton into it and would love to flip for a lesser, but lost that "social pop" I'll keep it and be happy but it's not my dream or something I can flip for profit.

My father in law is geting a 400z finna be hot.

Everytime I think of going to a track meet or a cars and coffee, I have to remind myself what car people are like and just go on a drive instead

 

[An automatic clown]

That bmw was one of the worst cars I've ever owned. I could not find a shop to work on it and no dealer would touch it. They're just horrible electrical nightmares due to the age. It's a shame because I really like the Bangle butt . Might get a 645Ci in the future when they drop in value a little more.

I'll be buried in my 911. Wish I got a Turbo but I'd be in jail with a revoked license if I did.

Occasionally I'll look at exhaust systems for my 911 and think that's a good idea. Then I'll see some tron in a new edge Mustang with an obnoxious exhaust driving like mong and nope

 

[Car Won't Crank]

Ps. I bought a W124 wagon after I junked a E66 745Li. What a difference. My 911 is still going.

The E65/E66 7 are such hot trash. It really was the experimental platform for BMW as they rolled out idrive and a bunch of electronic features. See if you can find a E63 650i with a stick. After valve stem seals and assorted gaskets at this age the N62 should be good to go for years. The rear end aged really well on the Bangle 6 series. The E65 implementation isn't as elegant until the mid cycle refresh.

 

[Torque Wheeler]

The E65/E66 7 are such hot trash. It really was the experimental platform for BMW as they rolled out idrive and a bunch of electronic features. See if you can find a E63 650i with a stick. After valve stem seals and assorted gaskets at this age the N62 should be good to go for years. The rear end aged really well on the Bangle 6 series. The E65 implementation isn't as elegant until the mid cycle refresh.

The minute I heard the phrase "water cooled alternator" I've disregarded BMWs as a viable vehicle

 

[Car Won't Crank]

The minute I heard the phrase "water cooled alternator" I've disregarded BMWs as a viable vehicle

The water cooled alternator was actually only on a few engines like the M62tu, M73tu, and N73. The M/N73tu are understandable since they're special V12s. For the M62tu it's an annoyance but the alternators do last a bit longer for being water cooled apparently. The bread and butter of the BMW engines they are air cooled. Audi also has a few engines with water cooled alternators. What's a potentially new failure point on the modern B58 engines is a liquid cooled heat exchanger in the intake manifold to cool intake air.

 

[Torque Wheeler]

The water cooled alternator was actually only on a few engines like the M62tu, M73tu, and N73. The M/N73tu are understandable since they're special V12s. For the M62tu it's an annoyance but the alternators do last a bit longer for being water cooled apparently. The bread and butter of the BMW engines they are air cooled. Audi also has a few engines with water cooled alternators. What's a potentially new failure point on the modern B58 engines is a liquid cooled heat exchanger in the intake manifold to cool intake air.

It's more about the fact they thought a water cooled alternator would be a good idea. It's the principal of it. Even the most heavy duty vehicles have air-cooled alternators.