Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

Something else to consider is even if the turrets on these tanks are completely rusted out, if there are engine/hull compoents they might still be extremely valuable to Russia's war effort. I'm really curious about what the recovery rate for both sides looks like.
Armored vehicles don't do well exposed to the elements. Particularly once the seals and gaskets eventually fail. Ironically the best thing they could have done with those vehicles is even if they had to leave the hulls outside, remove the power packs, final drives, key parts from the turret, and at least put them into storage (or more likely sell them on the black market).

The fact that there's still no sign of the Turbine equipped T-80's makes me think they're all fucked. Constantly going back to the Soviet area scrap heaps is going to show diminishing returns.

If the had any sense they'd do a quick design for a low end armored vehicle, that could be produced in quantity. If they kept the weight down, they'd be able to produce it in smaller factories.
 
Armored vehicles don't do well exposed to the elements. Particularly once the seals and gaskets eventually fail. Ironically the best thing they could have done with those vehicles is even if they had to leave the hulls outside, remove the power packs, final drives, key parts from the turret, and at least put them into storage (or more likely sell them on the black market).

The fact that there's still no sign of the Turbine equipped T-80's makes me think they're all fucked. Constantly going back to the Soviet area scrap heaps is going to show diminishing returns.

There is a requirement in the CFE (and maybe others) that the vehicles must be stored so compliance can be observed - basically if you are putting a tank in storage, NATO wants to make sure its actually there and not magically rehydrated. Part of this is force escalation - if USSR is saber rattling but the storage bases are full, you can be reasonably sure its bluster. If the storage yards are suddenly depleting, it might be happening.
In the 80s, the easiest way to do this was just put them out in the open. Satellites take pictures, analysts can see if the tanks are still there.
US does the same thing, and this is part of the reason the planes in the Boneyard are stored in the open.

The tank counter was saying the ratio is 80% must be in the open and 20% could be in a workshop which sounds pretty accurate for treaty math.

Don't put too much faith in the glamor shots of rusted barrels, etc. Barrels are replaceable components. The electronics in the turrets are designed to operate under rougher conditions than just 40 years of sitting in a field. There are also entire units dedicated to guarding & maintaining the tanks. Some of the formations have been moving into the workshops for their bi-yearly inspection & service. Others have sat since the CFE was signed.

And even if a tank is largely fucked, its still going to be materially cheaper to recondition it than build a new one, especially if you have a 2nd fucked tank to grab parts from.


And you're right, I forgot about he T-80s being turbine-driven. That'd why they haven't moved. A diesel engine will absorb a lot of abuse, but a turbine won't. What are the odds that they don't have the tools or knowledge to service them anymore?
 
The fact that there's still no sign of the Turbine equipped T-80's makes me think they're all fucked.
And you're right, I forgot about he T-80s being turbine-driven. That'd why they haven't moved. A diesel engine will absorb a lot of abuse, but a turbine won't.
So are the Abrams out in the Sierra Army Depot with their Honeywell AGT1500 gas turbine engines similarly fucked, or are their engines removed and placed in storage?
 
So are the Abrams out in the Sierra Army Depot with their Honeywell AGT1500 gas turbine engines similarly fucked, or are their engines removed and placed in storage?
The US Military is really really good at Mothballing Jet Engines and doesn't just park them in a field in Siberia and let the winter do it's thing on them.
 
Russian shill & gun/miltuber "Big Caliber Trouble" (Крупнокалиберный Переполох) tries sending a Carl Gustav rocket/shell through an expended AT-4 tube.
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I've posted some of his more interesting/relevant videos in previous thread incarnations; although he's likely funded & given direction by the FSB and/or MoD (or even Wagner), he still makes content with a lot of Russian stuff we don't get to see on US gun/miltube channels.
 
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So are the Abrams out in the Sierra Army Depot with their Honeywell AGT1500 gas turbine engines similarly fucked, or are their engines removed and placed in storage?

They are likely fine. The T-80s probably would have been "fine" up through 2000 or so. But in the 90s, any turbine specialists would have been working to try to keep their jets in the air, fuck tanks.

For the US, firstly the army is actively maintaining the tanks - There is rigorous checks to ensure each tans is getting checked and serviced. Second, the climate at Sierra is better. Its drier than siberia so parts last longer without corroding. That's why the airforce's bone yard is in arizona. Thirdly, the spare parts are actually in the service depots and not sold off (or never existed except on paper) to finance some general's dacha.

These are tank parts. They aren't fragile little garage queens. But 30-40 years of neglect in a damp environment is going to take its toll.
But I imagine the biggest problem would be lack of parts and knowledge to install them. Another thing that would probably factor in is that Ukraine makes a better T-80 than Russia does - no need to provide them fresh chassis.

tl;dr: Compare the state of "barn finds" from western states vs ones in Pennsylvania/New York.
A lot of the ones out west pretty much just need new tires* and they're good to go, the ones in the North East you have to tear out the engine drop every part into a electralysis bath to get off the rust, or just as often just replace it.

*that is an exageration your spergs
 
@Ghostse The way Russia had been storing their tanks and AFVs heavily damages and/or destroys them. Whether it is from the climate, weather and vermin. Electronics are extremely susceptible to damage when left exposed to them. Water going in the cannon barrels rusts them and more importantly the breechlock up.

I guess let me rephrase that then:
Given the "sophistication" of USSR-era turret electronics, where the Night Vision is just infrared spotlights, there isn't much that can happen to them that a dip in a de-ionizer isn't going to cure. We're not talking 20nm computers here.

The barrels are meant to be replaced, just because Russia doesn't doesn't mean they can't. Solid agree if the breech is rusty you'll need to replace the whole assembly which is effectively a new turret. But still less materially expensive then a new tank.

None of those tanks are ready to drive to the frontlines. But give them a week or so in a reconditioning facility and they'll be ready to be tanks from the 80s on a 2020 battlefield.
 
Dmitry Medvedev(Former President of Russia) went on a long rant against Ukraine on Twitter. Twitter link
WHY WILL UKRAINE DISAPPEAR? BECAUSE NOBODY NEEDS IT
1. Europe doesn’t need Ukraine. The forced support of the Nazi regime, by the American mentor’s order, has put Europeans into a financial and political inferno. All for the sake of bandera’s unterukraine, that even the snobby, insolent Polacks don’t take for a valid country, and time and again toss in the issue of its western areas anschluss. There’s a nice perspective ahead: to permanently put the nouveau-Ukrainian blood-sucking parasites on the decrepit EU’s arthritis-crippled neck. That’ll be the final fall of Europe, once majestic, but robbed off by degeneration.
2. The US doesn’t need Ukraine. True, the military and sanction campaigns are attempted for PR by political blabbermouths, who long ago attested to their impotence and imbecility. Average Americans don’t understand what “Ukraine” is, and where “it” is. Most of them won’t show this “power” on the map on the first take. Why won’t the US establishment focus on inflation and job issues, or emergencies in their home States, instead of a country 404, unbeknownst to them? Why does so much dough go across the ocean?
Sooner or later, they’ll ask for that. Then, storming of the Capitol in January 2021 would seem like scout games.
3. Africa and Latin America don’t need Ukraine. The hundreds of millions spent by US on pointless fights in Ukraine, could finance many development programmes for Latin American and African states.
Latin America is gringos’ backyard – that’s what they’ve been rubbing in for decades. Africa’s had its share of suffering from the genocide, and colonial dependence, imposed by former western slave traders. That’s why the people of African huts and Latin American favelas ask a very reasonable question: for their former suffering and present-day loyalty, why is somebody else rewarded – very, very far away?
4. Asia doesn’t need Ukraine. By Russia’s example, they see “colour” technologies at work to eradicate the largest competing powers. They understand what scenario the America-led collective West has for them if they disobey. “Help us to overcome Russia, and we’ll soon come to you”, the utterly brazen Western leaders tell them. Such gigantic countries as India, China, and other Asia-Pacific states face the big enough challenge of post-pandemic economic recovery, let aside the drugged clowns, with their whining for aid.
“We are not interested in you”, Asia tells their messengers, responding to the calls to support Ukraine and confine Russia. The country, geopolitically many times closer to Asian powers, the one that historically has proven itself a reliable strategic partner. Do Asian giants need such headache coming from former colonisers?
5. Russia doesn’t need Ukraine. A threadbare quilt, torn, shaggy, and greasy. The new Malorossiya of 1991 is made up of the artificially cut territories, many of which are indigenously Russian, separated by accident in the 20th century. Millions of our compatriots live there, harassed for years by the Nazi Kiev regime. It is them who we defend in our special military operation, relentlessly eradicating the enemy. We don’t need unterukraine. We need Big Great Russia.
6. Finally, its own citizens don’t need the Nazi-headed Ukraine. That’s why out of 45 million people there’re only some 20 million remaining. That’s why those who stayed want to leave for any place: the hated Poland, EU, NATO, to be America’s 51nd state. Joining the Antarctic with its pinguins will also be fine. As long as it’s quiet, and the food’s good. The ruling junta’s criminal ambitions forced Ukrainians to beg and roam around the countries and continents, searching for a better life. All that is for an obscure European perspective. Or rather, to let the harlequin in a khaki tricot and his band of thievish Nazi clowns to put the money stolen from the West into their offshore accounts. Would ordinary Ukrainians need that?
Nobody on this planet needs such a Ukraine. That’s why it will disappear
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So are the Abrams out in the Sierra Army Depot with their Honeywell AGT1500 gas turbine engines similarly fucked, or are their engines removed and placed in storage?
In Germany & at Ft. Carson, anything we had that was being sent or removed from mothballs went through a specific & thorough PMCS before & after. Lubricants & coolants were replaced, filters removed & housings covered, manifolds capped, batteries pulled, etc. I remember a lot of vehicles were even shrink-wrapped like boats for winter, including tanks and spare powerpacks kept separately.

Even when we started pulling old M35A2, 2-1/2t trucks from an outdoors motorpark to fill our shortages, which had been sitting since the late 80's at least, they still came back to life without much trouble (and then usually ran better than newer vehicles serviced every month).

I highly doubt the Soviets put even a fraction of the effort into preparing their vehicles for deep freeze, and I dread to think what of Russian/DPR mechanics are dealing with. After a couple weeks of resurrecting T-72s from Siberia & servicing them daily, I'd probably be praying to get sent to the front instead.
 
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Considering Ukraine's long history of corruption and Hunter Biden's role in things as proven by his laptop, I wonder if this whole war is ongoing is because Ukraine blackmailed Biden into supporting them otherwise they would publish all of his family's dirty laundry?
In some alternate universe where Ukraine invaded Russia this might make some type of sense, here in this universe where Russia invaded Ukraine after Biden did literally everything in his power to stop or dissuade them from doing so this is just more vatnik gum flapping devoid of any actual meaning or sense.
 
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If the had any sense they'd do a quick design for a low end armored vehicle, that could be produced in quantity. If they kept the weight down, they'd be able to produce it in smaller factories.
Armored cars for the win.

Its telling that a year into this war Russia has produced nothing new to deal with it and has instead gone to the junkyard to resurrect museum pieces.
 
Dmitry Medvedev went on a long skitzo rant against Ukraine on Twitter. Twitter link
What is Medvedev trying to accomplish? He has been the most publicly unhinged person at Kremlin during this conflict. Medvedev only makes himself look bad with his schizo ramblings, ruining his decent reputation abroad after his term as Russia's president. It does not reflect too well on Putin's circle either.

Is it all some harebrained scheme to not get tossed out of the window by making himself look worse in the eyes of the west, and less of a threat to Putin as a result?
 
Dmitry Medvedev(Former President of Russia) went on a long rant against Ukraine on Twitter.
Absolute batshit insanity but his word choice and diction were really impressive for a second language speaker of English, he was really able to express the raging lunacy in his soul. There were a few spelling and grammatical mistakes that convince me it was really him typing on the phone and not some paid translator.
 
I highly doubt the Soviets put even a fraction of the effort into preparing their vehicles for deep freeze, and I dread to think what of Russian/DPR mechanics are dealing with. After a couple weeks of resurrecting T-72s from Siberia & servicing them daily, I'd probably be praying to get sent to the front instead.

Compared to U.S. military standards, those Russian tanks and AFVs are generally in varying degrees of damaged inside and out. As they shouldn't need the interior to be completely gutted and everything replaced cause the Russians couldn't be asre to properly sealed everything up including the cannon barrels.

Although Western Europeans aren't exactly that much better than the Russians in storing their tanks and AFVs.
 
What is Medvedev trying to accomplish? He has been the most publicly unhinged person at Kremlin during this conflict. Medvedev only makes himself look bad with his schizo ramblings, ruining his decent reputation abroad after his term as Russia's president. It does not reflect too well on Putin's circle either.

Is it all some harebrained scheme to not get tossed out of the window by making himself look worse in the eyes of the west, and less of a threat to Putin as a result?
My pet theory is that these rants are show for foreigners to disqualify him as viable leader of Russia, and therefore not a threat to Putin.
Call it anti-defenestration measure.
 
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