Warship Discussion Thread - For all boats, ships, and subs of your flavor

[Phalanges Mycologist]

Why can't modern destroyers have multiple 5-inchers? I know a lot if for VLS space but come on

I think the thought is if they are using the deck gun something has seriously gone wrong, most of them are just Torpedo / Missile launchers now, I know I am old fashioned but I still want warships with big honking guns on them something you can point towards another boat and watch the crew shit themselfs.

 

[millais]

I have been aboard:

• U-505, Type IX U-boat in Chicago (years before they renovated it)
• Foxtrot-class diesel sub in Los Angeles
• USS Lexington in Corpus Christi, Texas
• USS Enterprise in New York City
• ex- USS Sarsfield in Tainan, Taiwan

And I have visited the Type A Japanese midget submarine recovered from Pearl Harbor in Fredericksburg, Texas. Of course it's too small for them to allow visitors inside.

 

[make_it_so]

But yes the M class was kick ass but obsolete the moment they were Designed.

The French tried a similar vessel in the Surcouf.


And the Germans were planning (but ultimately never built) the the Type IX "U-Cruiser."


As cool as they might look, the problem with submarine cruisers was that ultimately when think over them for more than a few minutes, they really don't make any sense. You're essentially creating an oversized submarine that's not going to be particularly hydrodynamic and so probably slower than a normal one. As a surface raider, it's going to be slower than a cruiser, it's probably not that more well armed than any convoy's escorts and even if it is it isn't going to be particularly well armored. Which means that if it gets into a gunnery duel and sustains damage, it's not going to be able safe to dive - so you'll be left with a lightly (if that) armored surface ship that can't outfight enemy escorts and can't outrun or dive to escape anything that decides to come after it.

I have been aboard:

• U-505, Type IX U-boat in Chicago (years before they renovated it)
• Foxtrot-class diesel sub in Los Angeles
• USS Lexington in Corpus Christi, Texas
• USS Enterprise in New York City
• ex- USS Sarsfield in Tainan, Taiwan

And I have visited the Type A Japanese midget submarine recovered from Pearl Harbor in Fredericksburg, Texas. Of course it's too small for them to allow visitors inside.

I've seen the Japanese Midget sub at the Nimitz museum as well. I've also gotten the chance over the years to visit
-USS Texas, many years ago long before she started undergoing her current overhaul
-USS North Carolina
-USS Alabama
-USS Intrepid in NYC, as well as the USS Growler

And one of the most amazing experiences of all was when I was kid on vacation in Florida in the late 80s/early 90's, and all of us got to go aboard the USS Kitty Hawk (I think) when it docked in port and had an open visitors day for civilians to come aboard and see how an US Supercarrier worked.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

I’ve been to the naval museums of Charleston and San Diego, each has submarines, destroyers, and carriers.

 

[WelperHelper99]

The French tried a similar vessel in the Surcouf.


And the Germans were planning (but ultimately never built) the the Type IX "U-Cruiser."


As cool as they might look, the problem with submarine cruisers was that ultimately when think over them for more than a few minutes, they really don't make any sense. You're essentially creating an oversized submarine that's not going to be particularly hydrodynamic and so probably slower than a normal one. As a surface raider, it's going to be slower than a cruiser, it's probably not that more well armed than any convoy's escorts and even if it is it isn't going to be particularly well armored. Which means that if it gets into a gunnery duel and sustains damage, it's not going to be able safe to dive - so you'll be left with a lightly (if that) armored surface ship that can't outfight enemy escorts and can't outrun or dive to escape anything that decides to come after it.

Thing is the multi use sub idea persisted for a long time, with the king in my opinion being the Japanese I-400. A submerged aircraft carrier, something you'd see in a cartoon, but real. Even today you could argue the idea lives on with nuclear missile "boomer" subs and those ridiculous Ohio class conversions with over 200 tomahawk missiles.

 

[WelperHelper99]

I’ve been to the naval museums of Charleston and San Diego, each has submarines, destroyers, and carriers.

That sounds awesome man. Any favorites?

To go back to the Submarine thing, I want to visit the North Koreans, and their SSBN

This is the thing that's been launching missiles over Japan, and is arguably the final evolution of the multi use/land attack sub concept, SSBN'S in general. Got any thoughts @make_it_so on NK's rocket boat? They got a... quite unique navy in general, lots of midget subs and "frigates" that are basically oversized gunboats with a few anti ship missiles strapped on.

 

[make_it_so]

That sounds awesome man. Any favorites?

To go back to the Submarine thing, I want to visit the North Koreans, and their SSBN
View attachment 5028762
This is the thing that's been launching missiles over Japan, and is arguably the final evolution of the multi use/land attack sub concept, SSBN'S in general. Got any thoughts @make_it_so on NK's rocket boat? They got a... quite unique navy in general, lots of midget subs and "frigates" that are basically oversized gunboats with a few anti ship missiles strapped on.

...It's basically a copy of the Soviet Golf-class from the late 1950's. So yeah, like so many of North Korea's "breakthrough" naval designs, it's just a copy of technology that's at least 40 years out of date.

And yes the North Korean navy is...interesting. Almost to a comical point. Like corvettes whose main guns are just repurposed T-34/85 tank turrets.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

That sounds awesome man. Any favorites?

To go back to the Submarine thing, I want to visit the North Koreans, and their SSBN
View attachment 5028762
This is the thing that's been launching missiles over Japan, and is arguably the final evolution of the multi use/land attack sub concept, SSBN'S in general. Got any thoughts @make_it_so on NK's rocket boat? They got a... quite unique navy in general, lots of midget subs and "frigates" that are basically oversized gunboats with a few anti ship missiles strapped on.

Not really. Can't even remember specific ones. The Yorktown in Charleston actually saw combat in WW2 (Midway in San Diego didn't) so I guess that one. The San Diego Maritime Museum also has a Spanish galleon and a paddle steamer (not a warship). It's nuts how large something like "a galleon" sounds and then how tiny it is next to a modern ship.

I would like to visit the Civil War Naval Museum at some point, but it's in the middle of nowhere Alabama for some reason. I may visit Constellation in Baltimore soon. I prefer Age of Sail but I do like naval warfare in general and World of Warships has raised my interest in carrier age warfare (I mostly prefer playing carrier in that).

I've also seen CSS Hunley, the first sort-of successful submarine, which barely qualifies as a warship (those things, being man-powered and tiny, could have at most been just another tool in a suite of harbor defenses, no hope at all as a sea-roving commerce raider like the U-Boats). It's museum is like a shrine.

 

[WelperHelper99]

...It's basically a copy of the Soviet Golf-class from the late 1950's. So yeah, like so many of North Korea's "breakthrough" naval designs, it's just a copy of technology that's at least 40 years out of date.

And yes the North Korean navy is...interesting. Almost to a comical point. Like corvettes whose main guns are just repurposed T-34/85 tank turrets.

Those Corvettes are really something

With all those guns and mines and presumably weak armor, the thing is a tinderbox. I'm surprised they don't strap some Strela-2's to the thing to give it some missiles.

Not really. Can't even remember specific ones. The Yorktown in Charleston actually saw combat in WW2 (Midway in San Diego didn't) so I guess that one. The San Diego Maritime Museum also has a Spanish galleon and a paddle steamer (not a warship). It's nuts how large something like "a galleon" sounds and then how tiny it is next to a modern ship.

I would like to visit the Civil War Naval Museum at some point, but it's in the middle of nowhere Alabama for some reason. I may visit Constellation in Baltimore soon. I prefer Age of Sail but I do like naval warfare in general and World of Warships has raised my interest in carrier age warfare (I mostly prefer playing carrier in that).

I've also seen CSS Hunley, the first sort-of successful submarine, which barely qualifies as a warship (those things, being man-powered and tiny, could have at most been just another tool in a suite of harbor defenses, no hope at all as a sea-roving commerce raider like the U-Boats). It's museum is like a shrine.

I've seen a video on the Hunley, cool you got to see it man!

It's interesting to think about how long subs have been around and their impact. Once a novelty, now one of the scariest ships on the waves

 

[ComStar]

I love the period between the first ironclads and Dreadnought, where everything was new and exciting, development was rapid and ships could be obsolete as soon as they hit the water (but could be sent off to colonial backwaters to show the flag and threaten heathens)

I heartily recommend D. K. Brown's Warrior to Dreadnought for the British side of things, and Drachinifel's video on French pre-dreadnoughts. They're both adorable and hopeless at the same time

 

[WelperHelper99]

I love the period between the first ironclads and Dreadnought, where everything was new and exciting, development was rapid and ships could be obsolete as soon as they hit the water (but could be sent off to colonial backwaters to show the flag and threaten heathens)

I heartily recommend D. K. Brown's Warrior to Dreadnought for the British side of things, and Drachinifel's video on French pre-dreadnoughts. They're both adorable and hopeless at the same time

I remember watching that Drachinifel video, glad I'm not the only fan . French ships in general, even today are interesting. One of my favorites in ww2 is the Richelieu class (pictures won't upload, so here's a link): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richelieu-class_battleship
I will say this, it's a beast in World of Warships with 8 forward firing 15 inch guns. Even IRL, they served thru WW2 in the pacific as gunfire support.

 

[ComStar]

I remember watching that Drachinifel video, glad I'm not the only fan . French ships in general, even today are interesting. One of my favorites in ww2 is the Richelieu class (pictures won't upload, so here's a link): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richelieu-class_battleship
I will say this, it's a beast in World of Warships with 8 forward firing 15 inch guns. Even IRL, they served thru WW2 in the pacific as gunfire support.

The French had some very interesting concepts like the Jeune École and Surcouf, along with the courage (or arrogance) to go with them in spite of logic and common sense

As for their more modern ships, i can't really say anything. I mostly lose interest in navy-related matters as soon as WW2 ends. from then on it's just a shift towards airstrikes and missiles, at least above the surface.

 

[WelperHelper99]

The French had some very interesting concepts like the Jeune École and Surcouf, along with the courage (or arrogance) to go with them in spite of logic and common sense

As for their more modern ships, i can't really say anything. I mostly lose interest in navy-related matters as soon as WW2 ends. from then on it's just a shift towards airstrikes and missiles, at least above the surface.

I do think modern ships are cool, but they are missing some of that big gun charm, I have to admit

One French ship I fell in love with from a certain ship game was Algerie


World of Warships made it a AA beast, but IRL it was mediocre on that front, instead being a more multi purpose heavy hitter with its eight 203mm guns. It saw service in WW2 early on, sending French gold to Canada and bombarding shorelines before it was scuttled at the French surrender.

 

[Phalanges Mycologist]

The French tried a similar vessel in the Surcouf.

In the fictional series Destroyermen there was a Standoff and Depth Charging of one of those by a Wickes class and it lasted a few seconds those things where flawed from the drawing board just so unwieldy and unbalanced, the Author Taylor Anderson is former Navy, a Professor of Naval History and a Gunsmith (a real one not just a parts cannon) and really knows his stuff and he wargamed the hell out of the possible situations given the point of the story and the environment etc because he wanted to have it in the story's as one of the ships.

I'm still a sucker for age of Sail warships, or the early Steam an Sail hybrids - I've been on the HMS Victory quite a few times and love its cramped official charm - I wouldn't like to serve on one (I'm tall enough to suffer regular head injury from standard door frames) but the Smith and Carpenter in me feels at home with them,

One thing I've thought of with ships of that period would have been a came changer would have been Gun Tub's mounted either side on a midships with early breach loaders or small cannonades firing chain / bar shot directly at the enemy crews not just the rigging, I know in the transition period they did do that with muzzle loaders but I'd love to see have seen someone try it before that.

 

[WelperHelper99]

In the fictional series Destroyermen there was a Standoff and Depth Charging of one of those by a Wickes class and it lasted a few seconds those things where flawed from the drawing board just so unwieldy and unbalanced, the Author Taylor Anderson is former Navy, a Professor of Naval History and a Gunsmith (a real one not just a parts cannon) and really knows his stuff and he wargamed the hell out of the possible situations given the point of the story and the environment etc because he wanted to have it in the story's as one of the ships.

I'm still a sucker for age of Sail warships, or the early Steam an Sail hybrids - I've been on the HMS Victory quite a few times and love its cramped official charm - I wouldn't like to serve on one (I'm tall enough to suffer regular head injury from standard door frames) but the Smith and Carpenter in me feels at home with them,

One thing I've thought of with ships of that period would have been a came changer would have been Gun Tub's mounted either side on a midships with early breach loaders or small cannonades firing chain / bar shot directly at the enemy crews not just the rigging, I know in the transition period they did do that with muzzle loaders but I'd love to see have seen someone try it before that.

I can believe a Wickes upgraded for anti sub, or just shooting its 102mm guns:

Could defeat one of those big gun subs. They were packing so much powder in one area, so much as a hit to the thin shell would annihilate it, even with these relatively small guns. Depth charges doubly so.

I'll admit, I'm not the biggest age of Sail guy, sadly, partially because ship classes were kinda fast and loose, especially the deeper you go, it's hard to keep track of all the guns and top speeds of individual ships within a single class for me. Still I'm glad you can wrap your head around it

 

[Phalanges Mycologist]

View attachment 5069220
I can believe a Wickes upgraded for anti sub, or just shooting its 102mm guns:
View attachment 5069226
Could defeat one of those big gun subs. They were packing so much powder in one area, so much as a hit to the thin shell would annihilate it, even with these relatively small guns. Depth charges doubly so.

I'll admit, I'm not the biggest age of Sail guy, sadly, partially because ship classes were kinda fast and loose, especially the deeper you go, it's hard to keep track of all the guns and top speeds of individual ships within a single class for me. Still I'm glad you can wrap your head around it

We got a bunch of them on Lend Lease during the war (we called them Town Class and named them after Towns) and quite a few of them where used as Anti-Sub platforms - btw that gun is fucking amazing in the storys there was a small short story where they used it to take out a T-Rex like creature that was causing problems for a camp.

View attachment Number-One-Gun-in-Action1.webp

As I said that series is bonkers but really well written, and addresses quite a lot of the shortcomings an strengths of the class.

 

[Mister Qwerty]

Love the French pre-Dreadnaught era battleships and their weird curved sloped bulbous sides of their hulls.

Redoutable


Carnot


Hoche


Charles Martel

Jauréguiberry

Henri IV

 

[ComStar]

I do think modern ships are cool, but they are missing some of that big gun charm, I have to admit

One French ship I fell in love with from a certain ship game was Algerie
View attachment 5066363
World of Warships made it a AA beast, but IRL it was mediocre on that front, instead being a more multi purpose heavy hitter with its eight 203mm guns. It saw service in WW2 early on, sending French gold to Canada and bombarding shorelines before it was scuttled at the French surrender.

To be fair, most of the interwar ships had mediocre AA, though they learned quickly to upgun. Too bad about the scuttling though, would have been better if she, along with the French navy, had joined the Allies and fought on (especially with regards to Mers-El-Kebir, but that one's on Gensoul being an arrogant ass).

I did play some WoWS a long tile ago, but i was more into British cruisers and low-tier German battleships. Had one T6 battleship, but it was a premium i got out of a crate, and i almost never played it. Reminded me too much of artillery in World Of Tanks

 

[Uranus Pink]

@make_it_so Logic for Surcouf was sound as the French were working around the cruiser restrictions imposed by the Washington Naval Treaty via creative rule lawyering though a loophole. However once everyone else got wind of what the French were up to. That particular loophole was closed and Surcouf became an one off ship instead of a class leader.

Liberty ships used triple expansion engines as even the U.S.A. industry was hard pressed to build enough turbines for the U.S. Navy. Hence the Casablanca class escort carriers also had to make due with triple expansion engines.

USS New York and USS Texas were the US Navy's first superdreadnoughts; and also the last battleships built when the US Navy went with succeeding Standard type superdreadnoughts starting with USS Nevada. Cause of their predicament calling them either dreadnought or superdreadnought is valid and not worth having a tard rage over.

 

[WelperHelper99]

We got a bunch of them on Lend Lease during the war (we called them Town Class and named them after Towns) and quite a few of them where used as Anti-Sub platforms - btw that gun is fucking amazing in the storys there was a small short story where they used it to take out a T-Rex like creature that was causing problems for a camp.

View attachment 5070139

As I said that series is bonkers but really well written, and addresses quite a lot of the shortcomings an strengths of the class.

Interesting reading about the Town class, you guys went so far as to mount Hedgehog mortars on some of them. And yes the 4 inch/50 caliber gun is kickass, with the highest listed velocity for the mk 9 being 2900 ft per second. A T-rex killer indeed.

To be fair, most of the interwar ships had mediocre AA, though they learned quickly to upgun. Too bad about the scuttling though, would have been better if she, along with the French navy, had joined the Allies and fought on (especially with regards to Mers-El-Kebir, but that one's on Gensoul being an arrogant ass).

I did play some WoWS a long tile ago, but i was more into British cruisers and low-tier German battleships. Had one T6 battleship, but it was a premium i got out of a crate, and i almost never played it. Reminded me too much of artillery in World Of Tanks

It would have been great if a lot of French ships got transfered over, but alas, the Brits blew a lot of them up to prevent them from falling in German hands.

World of warships is a fun game if you're willing to dedicate time to it. I don't blame you for dropping it lol. I still have fun when I can be arsed to play, but I ranked up as a teenager with lots of free time.

Love the French pre-Dreadnaught era battleships and their weird curved sloped bulbous sides of their hulls.

View attachment 5071831

Redoutable
View attachment 5071843

Carnot
View attachment 5071845

Hoche
View attachment 5071848

Charles Martel
View attachment 5071851
View attachment 5071856
View attachment 5071859
View attachment 5071861

Jauréguiberry
View attachment 5071870
View attachment 5071872
View attachment 5071873

Henri IV
View attachment 5071875

One class of modern French ships I like is the Mistral-class amphibious assault ship. These ships in general feel a lot like the old Dreadnoughts in terms of power, just replace big guns with helicopters and troops and tanks, a floating barrack.