Metal Gear

[xXx: State of the Union]

I remember people questioning Stillmans trip through Big Shell even back when MGS2 released. The big thing everyone would point out was how he somehow gets blown up by a bomb in one of the Struts, but his fully intact body is discovered in the Shell 2 core I think.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

I remember people questioning Stillmans trip through Big Shell even back when MGS2 released. The big thing everyone would point out was how he somehow gets blown up by a bomb in one of the Struts, but his fully intact body is discovered in the Shell 2 core I think.

That always stood out to me, too. I always wondered if Stillman was originally going to die in the Core (i.e. the room where you find him), but it was changed to the outer Struts early enough that the VA talked about Strut H. It would track with the location of the body and extreme damage to the room it's found in.

Given that Strut G ends up listing to one side after the Harrier fight, would it have been that hard to show damage to Strut H, not to mention the other Struts? The plant is heavily damaged by RAY's attack, but you wouldn't think it outside of Struts G, L and the Core. It's just odd to me that the development team went to great lengths to provide minute attention to detail in other aspects, like ice melting realistically on a counter, but severe structural damage to the plant is barely shown at all.

 

[Neurotypical Mantis]

I just finished playing through MGS2 again and some things occurred to me that hadn't before:

How did Stillman sneak into Shell 2? Strut D is tied with Strut F as the most annoying strut to deal with. It's basically a few catwalks with zero cover. I can maybe see him sneaking out of Strut C without being spotted but I can't see him getting across the CD connecting bridge (which has a guard posted on it) and through Strut D, real leg or no.

When Ames starts yelling towards the end of his scene I suddenly noticed how familiar he sounds:
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Huh.

i guess you'll be saying 'you must be ames' a lot when you play nv then

 

[Friendly Primarina]

i guess you'll be saying 'you must be ames' a lot when you play nv then

Yup. Took me over 20 years to notice but now I'll never unhear it. When he says "Pick up your AK!" he sounds exactly like Loyal.

 

[Snekposter]

Yup. Took me over 20 years to notice but now I'll never unhear it. When he says "Pick up your AK!" he sounds exactly like Loyal.

I'm already regretting my SR2 playthrough. I'm going to have to kill Marcus since nobody offers the Boss 20% and lives.

 

[Wesker]

the fact that we will never get a sequel using the same structure and mechanics

I on the other hand am thankful MGSV was a one and done and will never return. Limp dick mechanics that gutted the fun ones built in MGS3-4.

 

[Dom Cruise]

The trouble with MGSV is the same trouble later Resident Evil games ran into.

The settings used to be as much of a central character as anything else and were always fully fleshed out, Shadow Moses, Big Shell, the Spencer mansion, the RPD station, Rockfort island, even Zanzibar Land worked almost like Shadow Moses.

You were thrown into these maps that were designed like they were actual places with real function, you'd work your way back and forth through them slowly opening up more and more, it wasn't a fully "metroidvania" style, you do reach points of no return, but there are those moments like when you can go all the way back to underground Storage rooms in MGS1 and unlock doors with goodies inside that are completely optional, it's little things like that that stand out as really cool as opposed to "collect 1000 doodads scattered across this huge map", which can be fun but sometimes less is more.

Slowly unlocking every room in the Spencer mansion in RE was fun too.

By contrast, Africa and Afghanistan felt so empty and lifeless, you're just going from point A to point B, there's no real reason to explore as there's not much to find, most of the places you do visit feel bland because they're not as fleshed out as much due to the larger scale, again, sometimes less is more.

Ground Zeroes worked better because it was a smaller map more focused on one place that was fleshed out more, but the maps in V just felt so empty, maybe open world Metal Gear could have worked great, but there needed to be more going on in those maps, more to see, more to do.

The RE games meanwhile starting with RE4 focused more on linear point A to point B progression, with only 2 remake bringing back the classic feel, a lot of Japanese games used to take great care in fleshing out their settings, it's one thing that made them stand out compared to western games, it was fun to simply walk around and look at what there was to see, that's been largely replaced with either linearity or copy and pasted assets with too many games now.

 

[TVB]

It's weird to see that the maps in V are hollow compared to Ground Zeros' maps.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

If only Kojima could have played Hitman 2016. Then maybe he could have figured how to do stealth open world correctly.

 

[Dom Cruise]

If only Kojima could have played Hitman 2016. Then maybe he could have figured how to do stealth open world correctly.

MGSV needed at least two more full years of development to polish the story and flesh out the maps, it was announced too early, GZ released too early and should have just been a prologue chapter ala the tanker, had the game come out in 2017 or even 2018 it probably would have been the masterpiece it could have been, but Kojima simply took too long already and the game was essentially forced out the door, which is why the story is a mess and the maps are empty and it leaves a big plot thread just unresolved.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

MGSV needed at least two more full years of development to polish the story and flesh out the maps

Nah, there was no fixing it without a total do over. The constant "they didn't give Kojima enough time" thing is straight cope.

The maps are shit by design by having Africa being a big empty field and Afghanistan being a bunch of narrow canyon passes with two towns and a small base. What could have been fleshed out? What could have been added?

Kojima for some insane reason thought traveling to locations was the "fun" part of infiltration. There's hardly anything to even "sneak" with because everything, even the landmark locations, just boils down to tents or a few houses.

The only decent part of the game is the combat, and the game goes out of the way for punishing you for enjoying it. It's fucking insane.

And the story is a mess because it's another shitty Kojima story. He gave no fucks about it making sense in the context of the rest of the games all he cared about was his waifu Quiet and his shitty "you're the real big boss" twist. It wasn't unfinished, it was just shit. Even if he had any intention of completing Kingdom of the Flies (he didn't), it would have left the game just as unresolved as it is without it.

 

[Wesker]

It's weird to see that the maps in V are hollow compared to Ground Zeros' maps.

It's a barren wasteland simulator. Two maps and there isn't a thing to do.

Why anyone fondly remembers it's barebones "gameplay" is beyond me. No camo system. No survival viewer. No animals really beyond a few things. Foliage is static and doesn't move but it did in MGS3 LOL. No codec. Dumb AI. No real boss fights. Venom doesn't even speak. Plot is nonsense and inconsequential to anything. 60 hours of the same 8 missions.

But yeah, gimme more! Kojimbo is God!

 

[TVB]

It's a barren wasteland simulator. Two maps and there isn't a thing to do.

Why anyone fondly remembers it's barebones "gameplay" is beyond me. No camo system. No survival viewer. No animals really beyond a few things. Foliage is static and doesn't move but it did in MGS3 LOL. No codec. Dumb AI. No real boss fights. Venom doesn't even speak. Plot is nonsense and inconsequential to anything. 60 hours of the same 8 missions.

But yeah, gimme more! Kojimbo is God!

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See, that's why MGS3 and 4 both worked way better than in V. The boss fights, map area and camo systems were there, but they also were very functional and useful, and not just to keep the stories going either. V feels more like a precursor to Death Stranding, which doesn't fit the overall quality of a Metal Gear game.

 

[Wesker]

See, that's why MGS3 and 4 both worked way better than in V. The boss fights, map area and camo systems were there, but they also were very functional and useful, and not just to keep the stories going either. V feels more like a precursor to Death Stranding, which doesn't fit the overall quality of a Metal Gear game.

Very apt comparison. Two games that are open world and clearly the creator had no idea what they were doing.

At least Death Stranding had mechanics you could tinker with. V has nothing. Base camo is the same as ones you later develop. V's biggest problem is that it's trying to be a console developed version of PW. PW worked because it was a handheld with the intention you pick it up and put it down after one mission.

MGS only works in well crafted setpieces. MGS3 doesn't even feel linear because of how well the set design is that it hides it.

 

[Grand Wizard Wakka]

MGSV needed at least two more full years of development to polish the story and flesh out the maps, it was announced too early, GZ released too early and should have just been a prologue chapter ala the tanker, had the game come out in 2017 or even 2018 it probably would have been the masterpiece it could have been, but Kojima simply took too long already and the game was essentially forced out the door, which is why the story is a mess and the maps are empty and it leaves a big plot thread just unresolved.

Kojima would have just wasted the extra time and money pissing around, like he did in all the years and millions of dollars leading up to its release. Guy spent tons of money on things like music he never used and threw out, and lol dinners with celebrities he hired just because he wanted to hang out with those celebrities.

People like Kojima (and Nomura at SE) need tardwranglers to crack the whip, make sure they work instead of piss around spending years working on something stupid like eye texture, and shoot down the really retarded ideas.

"Kojima, we've left you to work on this with a blank check for 5 years. What do you have to show? W... what? The only thing you've done with 100 million dollars and 5 years is make a camel toe physics engine? WTF? You stupid mother fucker! We're releasing the game in a year! Get it finished one way or another!"

"Jeff Keeri! They forcu me to make game in onry 1 year! It bad not my faulturu!"

 

[Wesker]

Kojima would have just wasted the extra time and money pissing around, like he did in all the years and millions of dollars leading up to its release. Guy spent tons of money on things like music he never used and threw out, and lol dinners with celebrities he hired just because he wanted to hang out with those celebrities.

People like Kojima (and Nomura at SE) need tardwranglers to crack the whip, make sure they work instead of piss around spending years working on something stupid like eye texture, and shoot down the really retarded ideas.

"Kojima, we've left you to work on this with a blank check for 5 years. What do you have to show? W... what? The only thing you've done with 100 million dollars and 5 years is make a camel toe physics engine? WTF? You stupid mother fucker! We're releasing the game in a year! Get it finished one way or another!"

"Jeff Keeri! They forcu me to make game in onry 1 year! It bad not my faulturu!"

He spent millions on that marketing bullshit for V where they were registering fake domains and putting out fake trailers and the bandage mask thing that no one really remembers or gave a shit about at the time.

I would wage close to half the budget was to ingratiate himself into Pedowood circles.

"He needed more time!" He had five fucking years lol and they shit out GZ because the game was taking too long.

All that time and there's zero content in it.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

He spent millions on that marketing bullshit for V where they were registering fake domains and putting out fake trailers and the bandage mask thing that no one really remembers or gave a shit about at the time.

All that marketing

And people who were not retards figured out the medic was Venom an hour after Ground Zeroes released.

And I don't know if I should even say non retards as I saw people on reddit of all places figure it out.

Go figure, having Keifer Sutherland voice both just with a slightly lower pitch doesn't really hide anything.

 

[Wesker]

All that marketing

And people who were not retards figured out the medic was Venom an hour after Ground Zeroes released.

And I don't know if I should even say non retards as I saw people on reddit of all places figure it out.

Go figure, having Keifer Sutherland voice both just with a slightly lower pitch doesn't really hide anything.

I didn't follow much of the game communities at the time since I was going to give it a shot being untainted, even though I didn't like PW's plot whatsoever.

But I did see all the shit that was put together after I had beaten the piece of shit. I didn't pay close attention to GZ so I didn't pick up on the Medic's voice. But there was in-depth analysis of picking apart the Medic's face model you don't see really and they shopped it and clearly they pegged it as Venom before the game even released.

Raiden served a purpose as a player's avatar, and throws away the player's identity at the end of the game and accepts who he is.

Venom?

YOU'RE BIGGU BAWSU

Okay? Who really needed an explanation as to why he survived MG1? Like when was this a need of anyone fucking ever?

You can play through MGS4 without V and it makes no difference to the player's experience. MPO was the only post Snake Eater game that felt like it wasn't non canon to me and I'll die on that fucking hill. I thought it was a nice follow-up (plot wise for the most part but played like shit) to Snake Eater and felt like it was in the same universe. Even had that same upbeat 60s style guitar riffs.

 

[Dom Cruise]

Nah, there was no fixing it without a total do over. The constant "they didn't give Kojima enough time" thing is straight cope.

The maps are shit by design by having Africa being a big empty field and Afghanistan being a bunch of narrow canyon passes with two towns and a small base. What could have been fleshed out? What could have been added?

Deeper bases ala Camp Omega, non-enemy NPCs that maybe you could do side quests for, battles between enemy forces and NPCs kinda like what was supposed to be in 4.

Collectables beyond cassette tapes, I mean, what are in other open world games? Put them in V.

It is the same deal with how barren Death Stranding's maps feel, Kojimbo and open world does not mix, love it hate it he specializes in "cinematic" games, but people gave him so much damn shit over "movie games" he eventually tried to make them chock full of gameplay, which translates to barren and empty because again, that's not where his talents lie.

Very apt comparison. Two games that are open world and clearly the creator had no idea what they were doing.

At least Death Stranding had mechanics you could tinker with. V has nothing. Base camo is the same as ones you later develop. V's biggest problem is that it's trying to be a console developed version of PW. PW worked because it was a handheld with the intention you pick it up and put it down after one mission.

MGS only works in well crafted setpieces. MGS3 doesn't even feel linear because of how well the set design is that it hides it.

I was going to mention how 3 is more linear than 1 and 2, yet it still feels as fleshed out.

Metal Gear was one of those series where the setting was as much a main character, again not unlike a Resident Evil or Silent Hill, but too often have games strayed away from that because it takes more work than copy paste.

Kojima would have just wasted the extra time and money pissing around, like he did in all the years and millions of dollars leading up to its release. Guy spent tons of money on things like music he never used and threw out, and lol dinners with celebrities he hired just because he wanted to hang out with those celebrities.

People like Kojima (and Nomura at SE) need tardwranglers to crack the whip, make sure they work instead of piss around spending years working on something stupid like eye texture, and shoot down the really retarded ideas.

"Kojima, we've left you to work on this with a blank check for 5 years. What do you have to show? W... what? The only thing you've done with 100 million dollars and 5 years is make a camel toe physics engine? WTF? You stupid mother fucker! We're releasing the game in a year! Get it finished one way or another!"

"Jeff Keeri! They forcu me to make game in onry 1 year! It bad not my faulturu!"

This is the truth that Kojima bit off more than he could chew and never had a clear enough vision for the game, but another year or two of development time couldn't have hurt.

It happened a lot with developers of the 2010s, the canvas got so large as the 8th gen started that devs just didn't know what to do with all this new potential, The Order 1886 showed a way of how games could be tight, focused experiences that dazzled you with the new tech but didn't waste your time, everyone got so butthurt about it though that now many games are bloated with filler, good job everyone!

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

but another year or two of development time couldn't have hurt.

I disagree. One of the complaints (as well as justifications from fanboys) of MGS V is that it felt like a PS3/360 game nearly two years into the PS4/Xbone lifecycle.

Without a total redo, there is no way that this feeling wouldn't have been seen as even worse in 2017/2018.

This is also assuming that MGS V as it was released wasn't mostly what Kojima intended it to be. I will die on the hill that MGS V was at least 95% of what Kojima wanted it to be. You have to remember that Kojima literally cut features such as deployable Battle Gear because he thought it conflicted with his vision for the game. There's no real reason that Kingdom of the Flies *couldn't* have been done in Africa instead of a whole different island. I'd argue it wouldn't have been that difficult for him to create said island using Africa assets if he really wanted to, and this isn't even getting into the alleged Kojipro people who say that KotF was cut because he felt it took away from Quiets sacrifice and the Venom Snake reveal.

You can say that an extra two years could have allowed Kojima to add better bases/NPCs/missions, but the better question is why werent they just good from the start? I'm supposed to believe they didn't have the time and/or resources when modders are now adding missions and scenarios with bullshit resources and tools they developed themselves without having intricate knowledge of the FOX Engine?