Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Mississippi Motorboater]

Re: power levels, I did like at the end of NJO how Luke just went Super Force Saiyan/Force Hulked up/whatever.

That final showdown with Shimmra where Luke dual-wields his own saber along with Anakin Solo's was such a standout moment of the series. Not just for how rewarding it was to see Luke finally be able to confront the face of the Vong Crusade that had rendered him and the Jedi helpless for so long, and had stolen so many students from, but also avenging the student who he'd unknowingly sent to his tragic end on Myrkrr....by using that boy's saber here and now, in the final standoff of the war.

Now, I'm personally still biased to some of Luke's later duels, like the ones against Lumiya, Jacen and Abeloth, simply because the Force-sensitive nature of those battles push him to his physical limits to such a visceral degree, but the Shimmra fight is still a continuity-wide highlight purely for the emotional and narrative significance it boasts.

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

You'd think if Lucasfilm wanted to earn some of the old fans back they'd do something like port older games that never got a PC release to Steam. I know that Rouge Squadron or Mercenaries 1 would be at least somewhat successful.

To be fair, they did release those two packs in 2021 of SW Racer/Republic Commando and the two Jedi Knight games.

But you're right, a Rogue Squadron collection is long overdue.

I'd also like ports of X-Wing and Tie Fighter, because I've never played them.

 

[Ensok]

I'm just going to say that powerlevels were always inconsistent in the EU for a couple of different reasons, it wasn't just something that happened later on. There was plenty of crazy stuff that happened in the old Marvel comics, and then you had Rokur Gepta and all the bullshit he could do (while still being killed by Lando), later comics like Dark Empire had Palpatine's Force Storms, you had Exar Kun doing a bunch of crazy shit, in Darksaber Dorsk 81 leads the padawans in force pushing a fleet of Star Destroyers across a solar system, the Thought Bomb, etc.

And videogames of course make things worse when it comes to consistency because they're all about just making you the player have fun and be strong and able to do whatever you want. So even as a light side Jedi I can spam Force Storm and Death Field in Kotor and stuff that happens in them is never going to be consistent with novels etc as far as powerlevels go.

 

[Manly_Brony]

If Boyega comes back for the Rey movie that means Finn is not the father.

I wonder who fucked who during filming.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I'm just going to say that powerlevels were always inconsistent in the EU for a couple of different reasons, it wasn't just something that happened later on. There was plenty of crazy stuff that happened in the old Marvel comics, and then you had Rokur Gepta and all the bullshit he could do (while still being killed by Lando), later comics like Dark Empire had Palpatine's Force Storms, you had Exar Kun doing a bunch of crazy shit, in Darksaber Dorsk 81 leads the padawans in force pushing a fleet of Star Destroyers across a solar system, the Thought Bomb, etc.

If anything, the Force was always meant to be high-tier and crazy. Darth Vader even mocks the Death Star and pretty much acts as if it's pussy shit compared to the Force. So a lot of these crazy Force powers makes sense; Vader knows his history, the other Imperials didn't. It's some of the later writers who wanted to tone down the Jedi either because they wanted a grounded story or they wanted to shit on the Jedi which contradicted what we saw and what was stated in the films.

And even if you cut out the comics like Dark Empire and Tales of the Jedi, you still have novels that have varying degrees of Force powers; some novels have it so that the Jedi are weak enough to be taken down by mundane means no problem, whereas other novels have it so that the Jedi have speed akin to Sonic the Hedgehog or feats of strength that reaches Hulk levels of crazy.

And videogames of course make things worse when it comes to consistency because they're all about just making you the player have fun and be strong and able to do whatever you want. So even as a light side Jedi I can spam Force Storm and Death Field in Kotor and stuff that happens in them is never going to be consistent with novels etc as far as powerlevels go.

I'd argue that video games are actually better at consistency with the Force when compared to novels. The fact that they usually bill Force powers as a power fantasy yet try to maintain a level of challenge pretty much sets up the tone of "Force sensitives are powerful, but vulnerable". Sure, as Jaden Korr in Jedi Academy or Darth Sidious in Battlefront II, you can clear out a whole room of jabronis with Force lightning like it's nothing, but if you screw up, you can be killed, even by non-Force-users.

I already noted this with my Force Unleashed example; right after you bring down the Star Destroyer with your mind on Raxus Prime, the game drops you into the Death Star's infamous Hangar of Death, where snipers, Dark Purge Troopers with cortosis armor and shields, lightning-resistant EVO Troopers, and walkers are waiting. None of those morons can touch the Force, but they can kill you if you slip up and get hit. The same thing happened to me when I played KOTOR 2 and maxxed out the Wisdom trait for my Jedi Master character; she could send entire armies flying, but since her other stats aren't up to par, if a strong enemy gets close and socks her in the face, she's down for the count.

As for a Light Side Jedi spamming Dark Side powers, well, the movies did that already:

Luke is arguably more Light-Sided than even Yoda, especially since Yoda just wanted Luke to be a mafia-style hitman and kill Vader and his Emperor, whereas Luke redeemed Vader instead. And yet here he is, using the Dark Side technique most associated with his dad.

The Dark Side itself isn't evil, it's just as much a part of the Force as the Light is, and a Jedi who uses it in moderation can remain strongly in the Light, (LOL Kyle Katarn) but you will become evil if you let yourself get consumed by it. It's like alcohol; consuming it now and then isn't bad, but if you get consumed by the bottle, you become a shadow of your former self. Just like how in the Bible, Christ has no problems turning water into wine and serving it to guests, but drunkards are still condemned in the Bible because of their self-destructive behavior.

The difference between a Light-Sider using the Dark Side now and then and someone who is consumed by the Dark Side is the difference between someone who holds parties and serves wine on occasion while staying sober 99% of the time, and that fat guy who's downed his twelfth bottle of vodka in a single day after beating his wife and kids.

 

[5t3n0g0ph3r]

Both it and Republic Commando were in-house Lucasarts games. They did it on their own. And of course, both can be challenging. And yes, both had Temuera Morrison as the player character, so it's very fun and very true to Morrison's Jango persona.

Protip: third level (the prison) the enemy will mob you with hordes of attackers. Fourth level (Malastare) is going to be really challenging with the sniping and the animals that will claw at you. The middle part of the Tatooine is going to be a bitch and will need several playthroughs if you're new to it to get through, what with all the flying and the enemy snipers. The final level, well, watch out for snipers and always have your flamethrower ready to eradicate hordes of melee fighters.

Bando Gora? BURN THEM ALL!!!!
@IDanceonTrannyGraves
Also, if you are hunting secondary bounties, there is a bounty (a dug) on Malastare that is inside one of the dug huts. I did not know he was in there until YEARS later. Hopefully, there is a video that will help you find them (would have helped me, IF THEY EXISTED!!!!).

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Pedro Pascal Leaves, But 'The Mandalorian' Lives - Inside the Magic

Is this the way?

insidethemagic.net

Pedro Pascal Leaves, But ‘The Mandalorian’ Lives​

It might be a healthy dose of wishful thinking, but would it be so bad if the Armorer had a chance to assume a starring role? Even if she played opposite Bo-Katan, this iron maiden of the forge would absolutely thrive in her own adventures. There are dozens of fans who would give anything to see her swing that hammer again.

Additionally, both of these characters (but especially the armorer) are women who wield enormous amounts of power. With so many viewers craving more female-led series, who’s to say The Mandalorian won’t steer things that direction?

The instant mandalorian became "Female led" it lost over half its viewership and these people still think that more women is the solution.

For the record I stopped watching the mandalorian at season 3 episode 5 and haven't looked back since because I could not give two fucks about glub shitto or whatever that redhead's name was while the show seemed to focus on nothing but her, but this article appeared in my feed and it just pissed me off.

These retards killed the show by focusing it on literally everything other than mando and are now going "That's what you wanted right? More women?"

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Pedro Pascal Leaves, But 'The Mandalorian' Lives - Inside the Magic

Is this the way?

insidethemagic.net

The instant mandalorian became "Female led" it lost over half its viewership and these people still think that more women is the solution.

For the record I stopped watching the mandalorian at season 3 episode 5 and haven't looked back since because I could not give two fucks about glub shitto or whatever that redhead's name was while the show seemed to focus on nothing but her, but this article appeared in my feed and it just pissed me off.

These retards killed the show by focusing it on literally everything other than mando and are now going "That's what you wanted right? More women?"

In fairness, Mando as a character is horribly stagnant and a bit irresponsible at times. Bring the baby into dogfights, what's the worse that can happen?

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

The difference between a Light-Sider using the Dark Side now and then and someone who is consumed by the Dark Side is the difference between someone who holds parties and serves wine on occasion while staying sober 99% of the time, and that fat guy who's downed his twelfth bottle of vodka in a single day after beating his wife and kids.

I recall Luke, to extent your metaphor, at least getting mostly through a six pack of Dark Side IPA on occasion in the old EU.

 

[Gondolindrim]

Pedro Pascal Leaves, But 'The Mandalorian' Lives - Inside the Magic

Is this the way?

insidethemagic.net

The instant mandalorian became "Female led" it lost over half its viewership and these people still think that more women is the solution.

I really don't think "women" is the problem. I think Disney's insistence that every female character be some girlboss badass that is a condescending biyatch to everyone around her is the issue.

Re: power levels, I did like at the end of NJO how Luke just went Super Force Saiyan/Force Hulked up/whatever. Luke's power level fluctuated a lot in the EU because reasons everyone has already gone into, but it was nice to see a kind of culmination for him as he takes hundreds of elite Vong warriors + the Slayers + Shimrra to the corner of Know Your Role Boulevard and Jabroni Drive and checks their asses into the Smackdown Hotel (yeah sure Jaina and Jacen helped and Jacen went Super Force Saiyan too to beat Onimi, whatever. Luke's moment was better). Unifying Force/Living Force/whatever the fuck that autism was aside

I'm okay with Luke having anime level force powers because he's the main character of the saga. He deserves to be so powerful because he's the New Hope and he worked his ass off for it.

 

[Mortin Shart]

The shortening of Mandalorian to "Mandos" is the gayest fucking shit I ever heard.

 

[Ghostse]

I really don't think "women" is the problem. I think Disney's insistence that every female character be some girlboss badass that is a condescending biyatch to everyone around her is the issue.

I have yet to encounter a male who doesn't love Ripley in Aliens.

 

[Male Idiot]

Lana absolutely has Anakin like eyes in game and concept art. She is just missing the wrinkly skin, black veins and all that.
Her eyes do appear to have a red rings around the eyes like Palpatine or Vader, but considering her eyeliner that can be argued to be just makeup.

She just doesn't kick puppies for fun and doesn't kill for the fun of it.
So more of a Palpatine like person then Darth Edge Bane. Which is a good thing if you want a Sith advisor/wife.
She makes for a good conspiracy partner for Darth Nox or a good counterbalance to the Wrath.

As to warhammer, it had a loose canon. The "nothing is canon, or it is propaganda" was a low tier excuse made by BL when they got called out on their poor quality control. It is a low effort cop out.

It was like the Palpatine battle meditation thing, a badly thought up quick "nuh uh, gotcha I was right" moment.
Sure maybe Imps had it, but I doubt it was galaxy wide and they had no training whatsoever.
So maybe they were off worse, but not to the extent that 2 mon cal cruisers vs hundreds of ISDs and still loose bad.

They could have instead went for the Death Star 2's reactor explosion taking the imp fleet out and get the same result, Lucas could have added that with the enhanced editions.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Lana absolutely has Anakin like eyes in game and concept art. She is just missing the wrinkly skin, black veins and all that.
Her eyes do appear to have a red rings around the eyes like Palpatine or Vader, but considering her eyeliner that can be argued to be just makeup.

I'll argue that it's just makeup.

She just doesn't kick puppies for fun and doesn't kill for the fun of it.
So more of a Palpatine like person then Darth Edge Bane. Which is a good thing if you want a Sith advisor/wife.
She makes for a good conspiracy partner for Darth Nox or a good counterbalance to the Wrath.

True, true. She's also good for pumping babies in her.

As to warhammer, it had a loose canon. The "nothing is canon, or it is propaganda" was a low tier excuse made by BL when they got called out on their poor quality control. It is a low effort cop out.

GW has stated multiple times that there is no canon. Which, in opposite of that, Lucasfilm with Leland Chee as its canon-keeper has always stated that there is a canon. Which is why BL readers are more forgiving of shit books than SWEU readers are. If Matt Ward writes another book or codex about how the Ultramarines are the finest Space Marines and how all marines try to be like them, non-Ultramarine fans can just discount that as propaganda. But when some book displays the Jedi or the New Republic as being dumber than a box of rocks, and their stupidity causes catastrophe down the line, well, that shit is canon the moment the book hits store shelves, and there's no removing it.

It was like the Palpatine battle meditation thing, a badly thought up quick "nuh uh, gotcha I was right" moment.
Sure maybe Imps had it, but I doubt it was galaxy wide and they had no training whatsoever.
So maybe they were off worse, but not to the extent that 2 mon cal cruisers vs hundreds of ISDs and still loose bad.

I suppose so, yes.

They could have instead went for the Death Star 2's reactor explosion taking the imp fleet out and get the same result, Lucas could have added that with the enhanced editions.

I'd have had it so that the Rebel fleet had the same number of Mon Cal cruisers as the Imperials had Star Destroyers. At least they'd be evenly matched, so when the Emperor dies and his Battle Meditation turns off, the Imps get fucked.

 

[Male Idiot]

They propably wanted to go with the underdog, but just didn't think it through just how outnumbered the rebels were. Even a good 1 to 4 would have been believable in a space western.

Gw states whatever gets them money, and whatever gets them off the hook for selling shoddy books.

I think the only thing preventing them from full woke like Disney is that they fear the paypigs would make another warhammer fantasy ree storm.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

They propably wanted to go with the underdog, but just didn't think it through just how outnumbered the rebels were. Even a good 1 to 4 would have been believable in a space western.

Basically, yes. Although by the time the Executor goes down, you do see other Mon Calamari ships flying about. But in a realistic scenario, such underdog stories don't really end well for the underdog. Even the early American rebels needed the Spanish and French Empires to bail them out against the British. And if the USA wasn't fighting the Cold War against the Soviets, they'd have all the time in the world to crush the Vietnamese the way they did the Filipinos and the Japanese.

Gw states whatever gets them money, and whatever gets them off the hook for selling shoddy books.

True. But it does give them the excuse whenever an author has biases.

I think the only thing preventing them from full woke like Disney is that they fear the paypigs would make another warhammer fantasy ree storm.

They've been kinda woke from the start. The Imperium is a "satire" of all the right-wing tropes of military authority and religion, except like Rorshach from Watchmen, they became more popular, so some authors started writing them as the good guys or the lesser evil.

 

[Mississippi Motorboater]

Oh, dear. We're getting more of Temuera Morrison lamenting his neglected station as Boba Fett. He was apparently going to have a role in Blandalorian S3, but got cut out.

And much like Hamill, Morrison is being very transparent about his disappointment.

 

[Male Idiot]

Basically, yes. Although by the time the Executor goes down, you do see other Mon Calamari ships flying about. But in a realistic scenario, such underdog stories don't really end well for the underdog. Even the early American rebels needed the Spanish and French Empires to bail them out against the British. And if the USA wasn't fighting the Cold War against the Soviets, they'd have all the time in the world to crush the Vietnamese the way they did the Filipinos and the Japanese.


True. But it does give them the excuse whenever an author has biases.


They've been kinda woke from the start. The Imperium is a "satire" of all the right-wing tropes of military authority and religion, except like Rorshach from Watchmen, they became more popular, so some authors started writing them as the good guys or the lesser evil.

That is a popular cop out of reddit that you should beware of.

The Imperium was a satire in Rogue Trader, but it got rebooted seriously. That was before woke was a thing, it was more edgy fedora tipping and slinging anything at the wall and see what fits.

Sunglasses on everyone, guitar guns, an Imperial scientist in full Death Star gunner helmet, Judge Dredd, Necron Terminators, it was just a pop culture mashup with an anti Tatcher vibe.

It has less to do with "modern" 40k than EU has with Disney 'lore' . Think of it more like if Spaceballs came first.

 

[The Ugly One]

If anything, the Force was always meant to be high-tier and crazy. Darth Vader even mocks the Death Star and pretty much acts as if it's pussy shit compared to the Force. So a lot of these crazy Force powers makes sense; Vader knows his history, the other Imperials didn't. It's some of the later writers who wanted to tone down the Jedi either because they wanted a grounded story or they wanted to shit on the Jedi which contradicted what we saw and what was stated in the films.

Star Wars is a self-contained movie. When Vader says the Death Star is no match for the power of the Force, the movie itself answers what that means. It's not a hulked-out superninja flying through the sky and annihilating armies with laser beams from his eyes. The Death Star is no match for the Force, because someone in tune with the Force can just walk in and shut down its shields. A lone pilot, again in tune with the Force, can make a trick shot that blows the whole thing up.

The most notable characteristic of every Force user in Ep IV is they're all calm. Neither Vader nor Kenobi jump, sprint, shout, or hurl things around. They just walk around and do whatever they want, and the only thing capable of stopping either of them is their rival.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Some rumors state that Morrison will play Captain Rex in the upcoming Ahsoka show:

Rumor, of course, no confirmations for now.

But for my money, Republic Commando and Bounty Hunter were his best performances in Star Wars.

Star Wars is a self-contained movie. When Vader says the Death Star is no match for the power of the Force, the movie itself answers what that means. It's not a hulked-out superninja flying through the sky and annihilating armies with laser beams from his eyes. The Death Star is no match for the Force, because someone in tune with the Force can just walk in and shut down its shields. A lone pilot, again in tune with the Force, can make a trick shot that blows the whole thing up.

The most notable characteristic of every Force user in Ep IV is they're all calm. Neither Vader nor Kenobi jump, sprint, shout, or hurl things around. They just walk around and do whatever they want, and the only thing capable of stopping either of them is their rival.

Really? Because Star Wars DID have a sequel planned before ESB came out. It was NOT a self-contained movie; their original sequel was turned into a novel called "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" where Darth Vader chucks lightning bolts a la the Emperor and Luke summons Kenobi's ghost and becomes one with it to become stronger against Vader. So no, right off the bat, they had powerful Force feats already planned.

And the fact that a lot of the OP Force powers actually came not from the Prequels but from early EU works like Dark Empire and Tales of the Jedi shows that yes, the Force was, even in the early stages, meant to be OP, when one Sith Lord decimates a whole fleet with his mind, and another has his Battle Meditation cover the entire galactic battlefront and create illusions that fool other Jedi and their sensor machines. And of course, can we really forget the Thrawn novels and their Battle Meditation? Where some dork sits in a yoga position and all of a sudden, one army starts beating another because of it?

Mind you, this was back then when having stuff outside of the movies, outside of the early Marvel comics and a few books, was rare. At that point, having Jedi jump like ninjas and move really fast is tame in comparison to the crap they were pulling off in the books. Lucas nerfed them so that they'd be vulnerable enough to be killed by robots and clones.

Also, it wasn't the Force that allowed Kenobi to shut down the Death Star's tractor beam; it was his stealth skills, which had almost nothing to do with the Force outside of him tricking a couple Stormtroopers. And his stealth wasn't absolute because Vader was able to find him out anyways; if the Death Star had more cameras inside or if Vader intercepted Kenobi before he got to the tractor beam projector, he'd have failed.

Not to mention the fact that the Imperials had full intentions to LET THEM GO, since they wanted to know where the rebel base was. So nothing Kenobi did was worth anything; since Tarkin and Vader already decided to let the rebels go because they needed to know where the rebel base is, after Leia lied to them. The tractor beam could've still been on and the Imperials wouldn't have used it, since they needed to know where the rebel base was, and they can't figure that out if they just killed the rebels.

It's always funny to me when people try to claim that the Force wasn't meant for OP shit, when Vader makes fun of the idea of blowing up a planet and says that it's nothing compared to the Force, and the first thing they did when they could make SW series outside of the movies was pull OP shit that makes the Prequels seem tame by comparison. Sure, we didn't see such powers in the movies, but that's because moving like a ninja is small potatoes compared to choking someone through Kinect Video Chat or rewriting their brain so that they don't bother you. That, and they were limited by the movie-making tech at the time.

That is a popular cop out of reddit that you should beware of.

It's GW's cop out, but Lucasfilm didn't have it because Leland Chee, the man in charge of the canon, insisted that every book is canon.

The Imperium was a satire in Rogue Trader, but it got rebooted seriously. That was before woke was a thing, it was more edgy fedora tipping and slinging anything at the wall and see what fits.

I disagree. Woke BS was here long before 2015. It's always been among us. We just got the concentrated version of it now that leftists aren't afraid to show their faces, but both Watchmen and Rogue Trader were openly leftist and attacking British conservatives because their authors were ass-mad that Thatcher became PM. The reboot for Warhammer didn't come out until the 90s, where they decided it'd become Dark Fantasy to counter the rather sterile culture of the 90s.

Sunglasses on everyone, guitar guns, an Imperial scientist in full Death Star gunner helmet, Judge Dredd, Necron Terminators, it was just a pop culture mashup with an anti Tatcher vibe.

Yes, they were mad that a right-winger got put in charge so they started acting as if right-wingers represented by the Imperium and Rorschach were Nazis.

It has less to do with "modern" 40k than EU has with Disney 'lore' . Think of it more like if Spaceballs came first.

Spaceballs was a tongue-in-cheek parody that was a half-tribute to Lucas, whereas Rogue Trader and Watchmen weren't really that flattering towards Thatcherites.