Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[starborn427614]

Some rumors state that Morrison will play Captain Rex in the upcoming Ahsoka show:

Hopefully this is true after he had to share Boba's show with Mando and then was supposedly snubbed in S3. Guy deserves way more respect than he's been getting from Disney.

 

[The Ugly One]

Really? Because Star Wars DID have a sequel planned before ESB came out. It was NOT a self-contained movie; their original sequel was turned into a novel called "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" where Darth Vader chucks lightning bolts a la the Emperor and Luke summons Kenobi's ghost and becomes one with it to become stronger against Vader. So no, right off the bat, they had powerful Force feats already planned.

A self-contained movie is one you can watch and understand on its own (The Godfather is self-contained, Part II is not - it's incoherent without the previous movie). There was no hint in the entire movie that you couldn't really understand it unless you picked up a B-tier paperback a year later. Which, given that the production crew had very little involvement with the book, makes sense. Lucas gave Foster a couple ideas and otherwise let him do what he wanted, it wasn't some kind of insight into a nonexistent "Star Wars Bible." It was just some guy blowing his ass on a page and trying to make money.

And the fact that a lot of the OP Force powers actually came not from the Prequels but from early EU works like Dark Empire and Tales of the Jedi shows that yes, the Force was, even in the early stages, meant to be OP

You can draw absolutely zero conclusions about what the audience was supposed to experience in the original Star Wars movie from EU material published years and years later by people who had nothing to do with the movie. The average tie-in media had little organization beyond "sell media," often had next to no involvement from anyone who created the movies, and there wasn't any attempt to put together a coherent "Bible" for Star Wars until about 15 years or so after the first film.

Also, it wasn't the Force that allowed Kenobi to shut down the Death Star's tractor beam; it was his stealth skills, which had almost nothing to do with the Force

Obi-Wan Kenobi is not a D&D character with a "stealth skill" on his character sheet in a separate row from his "force skill." He is a character in a movie, and that movie uses really bog-standard storytelling devices to draw the audience along. They establish early in the movie that The Force is pseudo-Eastern mystic bullshit, which was all the rage in the 70s, and it puts you in tune with the universe. They make it clear not long after meeting Ben that he lives in total harmony with the Force, and that's why he's far more than meets the eye. They don't show Ben twiddling his fingers and doing Force Magic in the Death Star because they don't have to. They've made the point already in multiple scenes - Ben operates on a different plane than everyone else because of the Force.

It is much, much later that the Force gets transformed into a video-game-like mechanic.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

@The Ugly One

A self-contained movie is one you can watch and understand on its own (The Godfather is self-contained, Part II is not - it's incoherent without the previous movie). There was no hint in the entire movie that you couldn't really understand it unless you picked up a B-tier paperback a year later. Which, given that the production crew had very little involvement with the book, makes sense. Lucas gave Foster a couple ideas and otherwise let him do what he wanted, it wasn't some kind of insight into a nonexistent "Star Wars Bible." It was just some guy blowing his ass on a page and trying to make money.

Like it or not, Star Wars and Godfather are not self-contained stories. They had planned sequels even before the first movie came out. That was the plan from the start, what you think of it is irrelevant. Splinter of the Mind's Eye still entered Star Wars canon as Lucas worked on the sequel, Empire Strikes Back. Star Wars was never designed to be a self-contained story, especially when the ending had Vader walking away alive, implying that he will be returning for a second conflict.

You can draw absolutely zero conclusions about what the audience was supposed to experience in the original Star Wars movie from EU material published years and years later by people who had nothing to do with the movie. The average tie-in media had little organization beyond "sell media," often had next to no involvement from anyone who created the movies, and there wasn't any attempt to put together a coherent "Bible" for Star Wars until about 15 years or so after the first film.

The obvious conclusion was that the Force is far stronger than the Death Star. Vader said as much in the original movie. The tie-in media only proved to expand upon what he was saying. Hence why despite being early in the EU's history, the fans did not have a problem with OP Force powers in works like the Thrawn Trilogy, Dark Empire, and Tales of the Jedi, since one of the main characters already stated as a fact that blowing up a whole planet is pussy shit compared to the Force.

Obi-Wan Kenobi is not a D&D character with a "stealth skill" on his character sheet in a separate row from his "force skill." He is a character in a movie, and that movie uses really bog-standard storytelling devices to draw the audience along. They establish early in the movie that The Force is pseudo-Eastern mystic bullshit, which was all the rage in the 70s, and it puts you in tune with the universe. They make it clear not long after meeting Ben that he lives in total harmony with the Force, and that's why he's far more than meets the eye. They don't show Ben twiddling his fingers and doing Force Magic in the Death Star because they don't have to. They've made the point already in multiple scenes - Ben operates on a different plane than everyone else because of the Force.

Are you sure about that? A wizard, a thief, a squire, and a strong man all wander into the evil wizard's space castle to save a princess. It's about as D&D as you can possibly get. Each man had his own skills (smuggling, strength, magic/stealth) and without them, the party would be screwed. Ben literally uses Force magic to distract a couple Stormtroopers, and before that, he rewrote the minds of some other men to get away from some patrol. You had Chewie and his strength which came in handy in the detention area, you had Han's knowledge of smuggling which also came in handy with the compartments on his ship, and Luke was training to be a second Ben which would increase their chances of success.

And yes, Ben's stealth skill is separate from his Force skill, since sneaking around is obviously different from using space magic to fake outgassing or hypnotize people. He was just being smart and using stealth, since he was an experienced general from an old army who can tell the difference between Sand People hitting up a Sandcrawler, or Stormtroopers hitting up a Sandcrawler. He wasn't just reliant on the Force for everything like some lazy human from the Wall-E universe who'd die if it wasn't for the machines; Ben had his own knowledge and smarts which were supplemented by the Force. If you take away his Force powers, he wouldn't just fall apart like a stack of pancakes, he'd still have his knowledge and smarts accumulated throughout the years which would allow him to find his way around the world.

It is much, much later that the Force gets transformed into a video-game-like mechanic.

Except we have Luke leveling up to Vader's level and beyond in between ESB and ROTJ, (to the point where he Force-Chokes some pig guards and then whoops Vader's ass) and a lot of the early Force powers created for the early EU media makes anything that you do in a video game look positively tame by comparison. Not to mention Vader's Force Choke is practically treated as a "kill" command for a game engine by the original movies.

So no, it is not "much, much later" when the Force gets transformed into a video game mechanic. It pretty much functioned that way in the OT itself, complete with a level up system and skill tree, to the point where Luke proves himself a powerful Jedi by doing the same things Ben and Vader were doing in the first two movies, and the Emperor starts fearing Luke's power because of a time skip allowing him to level up, like some RPG character who goes from being barely capable of fighting someone to being able to knock down the dark lord like if he's a ninepin in a bowling alley. I mean, come on, take a look at how different these two fights are:

That's the look of a man who obviously spent a full year grinding after his old man whooped his ass.

 

[The Ugly One]

Like it or not, Star Wars and Godfather are not self-contained stories.

The fact that you don't understand what a self-contained movie is, even after having it explained to you, is telling. "Self-contained" doesn't mean, "nobody had any thought of perhaps a sequel coming some day." It doesn't mean there's no future or past tie-in media. It means you can understand the movie without consuming other media. You can watch The Godfather and never read the book or watch the sequels and understand the story.

The Force is central to the Star Wars movie, and it's not a giant question mark at the end. Star Wars establishes why Darth Vader said the Death Star is nothing compared to the power of the Force in the movie itself. It did this by showing an elderly man and his apprentice destroying the Death Star due to being in tune with the Force. The audience isn't left wondering, "Why did Darth Vader say the Force is powerful? Why did everyone make a big deal out of it? Doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I hope somebody writes a comic book or novel explaining it, because I am so confused." The giant space station explosion made it clear to everyone. There was no, "If this made no sense to you, just wait for the tie-in novel!"

This is how good movies work. They show you in the movie. There's no homework required.

So no, it is not "much, much later" when the Force gets transformed into a video game mechanic. It pretty much functioned that way in the OT itself, complete with a level up system and skill tree

You've played way too many video games if you think there's an implied skill tree in the OT.

 

[Jewthulhu]

The fact that you don't understand what a self-contained movie is, even after having it explained to you, is telling. "Self-contained" doesn't mean, "nobody had any thought of perhaps a sequel coming some day." It doesn't mean there's no future or past tie-in media. It means you can understand the movie without consuming other media. You can watch The Godfather and never read the book or watch the sequels and understand the story.

The Force is central to the Star Wars movie, and it's not a giant question mark at the end. Star Wars establishes why Darth Vader said the Death Star is nothing compared to the power of the Force in the movie itself. It did this by showing an elderly man and his apprentice destroying the Death Star due to being in tune with the Force. The audience isn't left wondering, "Why did Darth Vader say the Force is powerful? Why did everyone make a big deal out of it? Doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I hope somebody writes a comic book or novel explaining it, because I am so confused." The giant space station explosion made it clear to everyone. There was no, "If this made no sense to you, just wait for the tie-in novel!"

This is how good movies work. They show you in the movie. There's no homework required.



You've played way too many video games if you think there's an implied skill tree in the OT.

The best movies are the ones that establish important plot points via fortnite events

 

[Male Idiot]

The best movies are the ones that establish important plot points via fortnite events

What were they snorting at Dosni when they came up with that? I want some.

The Imperium was initially a parody, but it became serious when they found out that the 'space knight' thing sells well.

If "naaaziiii" wasn't in vogue insult and it was royalists larping at jan 6 by meandering the US cogress in full plate, we would have gotten "Warhammer is totally nobleism" articles.

It isn't a super hidden Clyde Cash poke at fascism or Q's pro fashy Trump 1488D chess.
It is middle ages in space. Superknights in superarmor and supersword, in space! Not super high brow, but a rather easy to spot setup, space crusader fights space demon.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

The fact that you don't understand what a self-contained movie is, even after having it explained to you, is telling. "Self-contained" doesn't mean, "nobody had any thought of perhaps a sequel coming some day." It doesn't mean there's no future or past tie-in media. It means you can understand the movie without consuming other media. You can watch The Godfather and never read the book or watch the sequels and understand the story.

The fucking movie ends with Vader flying away, mostly unharmed. His ship isn't even that heavily-damaged, which means that he's obviously coming back for a round 2. That isn't "self-contained" by any metric. Even if Lucas and his mates died off after Star Wars came out, you bet your ass someone would be making sequels right after the main villain walked away from the big battle alive and unscathed.

Star Wars is far from a self-contained adventure. The only people who think it is would be the ones who weren't listening to Obi-Wan as he was explaining things to young Luke Skywalker. It hints at a legendary past where the Jedi Knights used to keep things in order before the Empire. It hints at the story of Darth Vader betraying the Jedi and helping the Empire hunt them down. It hints at the future where Vader gets away from the Rebellion after the Death Star's destruction, obviously setting up a Round 2 for this fight between the Rebels and the Empire. If the original Star Wars was a self-contained movie, Vader would've died, or at least would've been disposed of in a way that looks like he died.

Even from the start, Star Wars was setting itself up for prequels and sequels, because people would obviously want to see how things were under the Jedi, how Vader betrayed them all, and what would happen with the good guys fighting Vader when he inevitably returns after the Death Star is destroyed, so even without Vader claiming that planet-busting is nothing compared to the Force, there's still tons of things to explain in future stories.

"Self-contained" means all the plot points are tied up; if the story ended there, most folks wouldn't have any problems. Having the main villain walk away unscathed is the exact opposite of that, since it implies that he'll be back and there will be future battles between him and the heroes on the road ahead.

The Force is central to the Star Wars movie, and it's not a giant question mark at the end. Star Wars establishes why Darth Vader said the Death Star is nothing compared to the power of the Force in the movie itself. It did this by showing an elderly man and his apprentice destroying the Death Star due to being in tune with the Force. The audience isn't left wondering, "Why did Darth Vader say the Force is powerful? Why did everyone make a big deal out of it? Doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I hope somebody writes a comic book or novel explaining it, because I am so confused." The giant space station explosion made it clear to everyone. There was no, "If this made no sense to you, just wait for the tie-in novel!"

This is how good movies work. They show you in the movie. There's no homework required.

Did you actually listen to his line? Note that Darth Vader didn't say the Death Star by itself is nothing compared to the Force. He said "the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force." That implies that the Force can do worse than just blowing up a planet, and that what we do see of the Force in the film is but a small taste of it.

So yes, if all you can do with the Force is hypnotize some morons or be a better spy and sharpshooter, people will start wondering why Vader said that blowing up a planet is nothing compared to the Force. They might even think he's talking out of his ass, because the boys came up with something big that makes his outdated space magic religion look like shit. I'm pretty sure aiming better, hypnotizing weak-minded morons, and strangling someone whom you can see face-to-face is nothing compared to disintegrating an entire planet with a push of a lever. The Rebels obviously saw the latter as a bigger threat than the former. Vader's been hunting them for years, but the Death Star is what forced them to put their big boy pants on and get all hands on deck to figure out how to crack this particular egg.

If Star Wars was just the first movie, and only the first movie, then the admiral who insulted Vader's religion would be telling the truth. Hence why the first major works after the OT centered around OP Force powers that yes, they used to not only explain what Vader was saying, but also plug up plot holes from Return of the Jedi. Because if you sincerely believe that a small fleet like that of the Rebels' would've beaten the large Imperial fleet above Endor on their own, then you need to read the Art of War again.

You've played way too many video games if you think there's an implied skill tree in the OT.

Not even. The way Luke progresses in the OT practically screams video game skill trees. To the point where again, he has a power boost, he has a rank level up (Chewie tells Han that Luke has become a full-fledged Jedi Knight, even though by that time, that rank is about as hollow as hot gas, since the Jedi have been gone for decades) and he even shows off his newfound power by choking people with the Force like daddy dearest and by mind-tricking Jabba's chamberlain the way Kenobi did.

You don't need to play video games to basically look at that and see that Luke's power progresses like a video game character. A power boost, a rank level up, and a skill tree-style upgrade where he's wielding the same powers that the previous two Force-wielding masters were using. They needed to portray Luke as a master Force-user on the same league as Vader or Kenobi, so they literally have him use Vader and Kenobi's powers.

 

[xXx: State of the Union]

Jesus Christ you have a way of making yourself look fucking retarded no matter what the topic is I swear

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

Both it and Republic Commando were in-house Lucasarts games. They did it on their own. And of course, both can be challenging. And yes, both had Temuera Morrison as the player character, so it's very fun and very true to Morrison's Jango persona.

Protip: third level (the prison) the enemy will mob you with hordes of attackers.

I'm at the prison breakout and just about at my fucking breaking point.

There is one room in the level. It has a bend to the right and there are two lasers back to back up top. I cannot fucking get past these cunts. They take me out in two hits. I've tried frontal assaults, back assaults, side assaults. Nothing I do works. I've literally replayed the level more than six times because this cunting spot will not let me past and I'm burning through checkpoints faster than diarrhea after indian food. It's infuriating there's no checkpoints in these levels.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I'm at the prison breakout and just about at my fucking breaking point.

There is one room in the level. It has a bend to the right and there are two lasers back to back up top. I cannot fucking get past these cunts. They take me out in two hits. I've tried frontal assaults, back assaults, side assaults. Nothing I do works. I've literally replayed the level more than six times because this cunting spot will not let me past and I'm burning through checkpoints faster than diarrhea after indian food. It's infuriating there's no checkpoints in these levels.

Don't give up. The key is to keep fighting and find the opportunity to break through.

The way I did it was to use the ceilings of the lower levels as cover, then I went up one floor after another so I could get to the laser turrets and kill the cunts using them.

And believe me, once you get into the later levels, this level will seem like a piss break in comparison.

Jesus Christ you have a way of making yourself look fucking retarded no matter what the topic is I swear

I'm pretty sure a movie that alludes to a mythical past while also having the bad guy survive for an obvious Round 2 with the good guys isn't self-contained.

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

Don't give up. The key is to keep fighting and find the opportunity to break through.

The way I did it was to use the ceilings of the lower levels as cover, then I went up one floor after another so I could get to the laser turrets and kill the cunts using them.

And believe me, once you get into the later levels, this level will seem like a piss break in comparison.

I got to the bridge, got hit by a rocket, lost my extended jet pack, fell off and died. I'm done. Fuck this game.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I got to the bridge, got hit by a rocket, lost my extended jet pack, fell off and died. I'm done. Fuck this game.

I got past that part no problem. I just kept shooting and aimed at the rocket guys from afar.

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

I was loving the game up until this level but when I'm replaying the same fucking part nine or ten times, that's not challenging, that's bad design. Don't waste the player's time. Having the replay the whole level is really pissing me off.

 

[Manly_Brony]

Oh, dear. We're getting more of Temuera Morrison lamenting his neglected station as Boba Fett. He was apparently going to have a role in Blandalorian S3, but got cut out.

And much like Hamill, Morrison is being very transparent about his disappointment.

View attachment 5085575​

Morrison is a mediocre actor at best (I've seen a couple of his other movies and I tend to forget he's in them) who was lucky to be the first Hori to get his foot in Hollywood's door to be its token NZ minority. Prequel actors are fucked unless they're very famous. What was he thinking? Pedro Pascal is as irritating as back acne but at least he can act.

I really want to know why Lucas felt the need to cast someone who couldn't imitate Jason Wingreen's iconic voice AND redub Fett in the OT re-release with Morrison parroting his lines into a phone IIRC.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Morrison is a mediocre actor at best (I've seen a couple of his other movies and I tend to forget he's in them) who was lucky to be the first Hori to get his foot in Hollywood's door to be its token NZ minority. Prequel actors are fucked unless they're very famous. What was he thinking? Pedro Pascal is as irritating as back acne but at least he can act.

I really want to know why Lucas felt the need to cast someone who couldn't imitate Jason Wingreen's iconic voice AND redub Fett in the OT re-release with Morrison parroting his lines into a phone IIRC.

His best acting ironically enough is in the Republic Commando video game. Especially his back and forth banter with the other Delta Squad members.

 

[Shroom King]

I mean, fuck, just whisper the words "Mandalorian" or "Karen Traviss" in the right forum, and you'll see more salt erupt than a Dead Sea geyser.

Never forget the 3 million.

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

I got past that part no problem. I just kept shooting and aimed at the rocket guys from afar.

I FINALLY got to the part where you meet the other bounty hunter. And I died. And I was on my last continue. And now I have to start the ENTIRE FUCKING LEVEL OVER.

I quit. I can't believe that wasn't a fucking checkpoint. I fucking hate games that outright waste my time and making me play the entire level over and over is fucking jewing my time.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I FINALLY got to the part where you meet the other bounty hunter. And I died. And I was on my last continue. And now I have to start the ENTIRE FUCKING LEVEL OVER.

I quit. I can't believe that wasn't a fucking checkpoint. I fucking hate games that outright waste my time and making me play the entire level over and over is fucking jewing my time.

Playing the levels over and over was how I mastered the game. I didn't have a problem with the prison part, it was on Tatooine where I almost tore my hair out.

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

Playing the levels over and over was how I mastered the game. I didn't have a problem with the prison part, it was on Tatooine where I almost tore my hair out.

AHH FUCKING FINALLLY

Edit - Ok, now I'm starting the next part of the level and I am just getting fucking smoked.

I am watching a playthrough and I'm wondering if I've set it on hard mode or something because the amount of damage I'm taking per hit to the amount of damage he's taking per hit is vastly different.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

AHH FUCKING FINALLLY

If Zam dies on your watch, you'll have to start that whole segment all over.

Watch out for the Nexu and snipers on Malastare.