The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[DDR Yoga]

People prefer using big round numbers to describe things that are in reality messier (e.g. Hitler always talked about "six million unemployed" in Germany, when the exact figure was less precise). I do not see this as evidence of a conspiracy to fake the Holocaust going back decades. Do you see it this way?

As to numbers, the best historians to have written on this subject (Benz, Hilberg, etc) have provided death estimates closer to five million than six.

Not so much a decades long conspiracy to fake a holocaust, but perhaps a decades long desire (on the part of a psychopath banking elite) for a holocaust to happen, or at least for European Jews to find themselves in grave danger in the face of a rising tide of anti-semitism. Such a set of circumstances could obviously be used to justify the creation of Israel. I guess the seemingly more out there "Jews funded Hitler" conspiracies work along the same lines.

 

[The Tall Man]

I do not see this as evidence of a conspiracy to fake the Holocaust going back decades.

Why did the Nazis build a fake gas chamber in Dachau?

 

[Bonesjones]

I don't. I don't love any race. I love the human race <3 (even if i do feel like genociding others every now and then.)
Also why the "white people" line? Why not just spell whites instead of tacking on people at the end?

Real mask off moment for you. You want to genocide and you don't think Whites are people. Funny how even the most virulent Nazis didn't even think like this.

Plus you nor any other slow-in-the-heads here are among the whites who did anything useful for the world.

Upholding the truth is always useful, unless your currency is lies.

I'm a mutt. Without whites or coloreds I would not exist. Considering how mixed Americans are, some of you wouldn't either.

I don't think anyone says that shit. I've never heard whites say shit like this.

I can walk down my street and find statues and memorials to all kinds of people of every race, funny how white people have no issue with it, yet jews can't. Why is that?

1. Groveling before those you hate your race is pathetic. You are pathetic for simping for a 'master race' that would have gassed you for being an autist.
2. Jews are white.

1. Sounds like you get your racial knowledge from jews, and all know how they feel about anyone not jewish. Crazy how much they project themselves in others.
2. Then the holocaust doesn't exist, it's just white people being put in camps because of a greater war.

I've read plenty of stories that humanize the Germans. If you think they're not humanized enough, you haven't payed attention.

So you think the German people are overly humanized? So they should be more dehumanizing? You really can't hide your own feelings.

 

[History Speaks]

Here is Part 2 of my debate with Thomas Dalton of Holocaust handbooks (he should add his rebuttal soon; he has until next Sunday)

History Speaks Debates Thomas Dalton: Part II

Rebuttal Round

historyspeaks.substack.com

 

[Nuns with guns]

I tried reading this thread from the beginning but anyone questioning the Holocaust just got negrated and it turned into a slapfight.

I don't doubt labor camps had awful conditions and there were plenty that died after being worked til death or from disease or famine. It also wouldn't surprise me if people just got executed for no reason—maybe to open up room, maybe because soldiers were bored, who knows. This scenario is not unique to WW2.

However, I do have some questions regarding gas chambers.

1) Why use this method? Because it was supposedly cleaner, with no blood?

2) Why did they use Zyklon B? There are plenty of poisonous gases out there, is Zyklon B special in any way?

3) How many people are claimed to have been killed in gas chambers?

4) How did these gas chambers work? How common were they? Did other prisoners know about them?

Hopefully I can get some (documented) sources for these questions. I don't care if they come from deniers, affirmers, or revisionists. I just want to know what actually happened.

 

[Lone Wandering Courier]

I tried reading this thread from the beginning but anyone questioning the Holocaust just got negrated and it turned into a slapfight.

I don't doubt labor camps had awful conditions and there were plenty that died after being worked til death or from disease or famine. It also wouldn't surprise me if people just got executed for no reason—maybe to open up room, maybe because soldiers were bored, who knows. This scenario is not unique to WW2.

However, I do have some questions regarding gas chambers.

1) Why use this method? Because it was supposedly cleaner, with no blood?

2) Why did they use Zyklon B? There are plenty of poisonous gases out there, is Zyklon B special in any way?

3) How many people are claimed to have been killed in gas chambers?

4) How did these gas chambers work? How common were they? Did other prisoners know about them?

Hopefully I can get some (documented) sources for these questions. I don't care if they come from deniers, affirmers, or revisionists. I just want to know what actually happened.

1) they didn't. There were no gas chambers nor is there any actual evidence of gas chambers. In some instances, shower rooms have been labeled gas chambers, but you have to be a fool to actually believe you would succesfully gas somebody in a room with windows leading to the outside and has wooden doors.

2) Zyklon B is a bug spray, that used as such before and after the war. In the case of these labor camps, the intended use was to kill lice. But yes, the Nazi army did have a stockpile of more deadly gasses like Sarin gas, but they weren't used at these labor camps.

 

[History Speaks]

1) Why use this method? Because it was supposedly cleaner, with no blood?

2) Why did they use Zyklon B? There are plenty of poisonous gases out there, is Zyklon B special in any way?

3) How many people are claimed to have been killed in gas chambers?

4) How did these gas chambers work? How common were they? Did other prisoners know about them?

Hopefully I can get some (documented) sources for these questions. I don't care if they come from deniers, affirmers, or revisionists. I just want to know what actually happened.

1, The Germans switched from mass shooting to gassing as the primary mode of murder because mass shootings (of women, kids, etc) were too psychologically burdensome on the SS killers. Gassing was a more impersonal method.

2. Zyklon B was abundant in the camps (for delousing purposes) and hydrogen cyanide is highly lethal to human beings, so it makes sense that they would use it. At Auschwitz, the Nazis first starting using Zyklon-B experimentally as a means of killing Soviet POWs (who were also subject to genocide by the Nazis).

3. The best estimate I could give you for gassed Jews is about 2.7 million. This includes about 1 million in Auschwitz (via Zyklon B, in the 5 cremas and the two bunkers), about 1.4 million in the gas chambers of Sobibor, Belzec, and Treblinka (via petrol exhaust); about 150,000 in Kulhomf (via petrol exhaust); about 50,000 in Majdanek (via Zyklon B); about 50,000 in Maly Trostinets (via petrol exhaust); and many thousands more in other locations.

The total Jewish death toll exceeds 5 million. This figure not only includes gassing and other deaths at camps, but mass shootings (by the Germans, the Romanians, the Croats, and local collaborators), starvation, and overwork.

4. Exposure to Hydrogen cyanide (Auschwitz gas chamber) and carbon monoxide (Aktion Reinhardt gas chambers) at certain concentrations is lethal to human beings. The gas chambers were simply enclosed and sealed rooms that had a means of introducing HCN and carbon monoxide gas inside (e.g. holes/wire-mess columns in the roof of crematoria 2 and 3; a piping system at a Treblinka gas chamber). Not very hard to imagine how this process could kill people if you know or read some very basic chemistry.

 

[History Speaks]

BTW let me know if you want sauce for any of the stuff I said, nuns.

 

[Betonhaus]

BTW let me know if you want sauce for any of the stuff I said, nuns.

I would presume that if you felt the need to offer sources, then sources are expected.

 

[History Speaks]

then sources are expected.

Much of the stuff I mentioned (like the fact that hydrogen cyanide and carbon monoxide are lethal to human beings at certain concentrations) are easily googled. My question for him is if there is something he doubts or sounds implausible to him, in which case I'll cite it. But feel free to kook out over this.

 

[Betonhaus]

Much of the stuff I mentioned (like the fact that hydrogen cyanide and carbon monoxide are lethal to human beings at certain concentrations) are easily googled. My question for him is if there is something he doubts or sounds implausible to him, in which case I'll cite it. But feel free to kook out over this.

I believe one of the reoccurring themes on this thread is that people who support the official record of the Holocaust have a tendancey to insist there is evidence without actually providing it, instead implying that people will randomly stumble into a horde of evidence if they even tried to look. And the few times evidence was actually provided, the source had additional relevant context that cast doubt on its evidence.

Refusing to provide evidence only serves to reinforce doubt of the official narrative.

 

[History Speaks]

Refusing to provide evidence only serves to reinforce doubt of the official narrative.

I have provided tons of evidence on this thread. All deniers have is confirmation bias and a desire to fedora tip.

 

[Betonhaus]

I have provided tons of evidence on this thread. All deniers have is confirmation bias and a desire to fedora tip.

your evidence was disputed and found lacking. it may always be evidence in your heart, but in the real world it is not.

 

[Bonesjones]

1, The Germans switched from mass shooting to gassing as the primary mode of murder because mass shootings (of women, kids, etc) were too psychologically burdensome on the SS killers. Gassing was a more impersonal method.

So the Nazis were such genocidal cold hearted killers who hated jews so much they specifically went out their way to murder them. They also were so tormented by it that they couldn't face the part where they actually do it. Man you love to contradict yourself every other sentence.

2. Zyklon B was abundant in the camps (for delousing purposes) and hydrogen cyanide is highly lethal to human beings, so it makes sense that they would use it. At Auschwitz, the Nazis first starting using Zyklon-B experimentally as a means of killing Soviet POWs (who were also subject to genocide by the Nazis).

So you can prove they were actually gassed with an autopsy report? We've been waiting for a single one to be producted. You’ve been caught lacking.

3. The best estimate I could give you for gassed Jews is about 2.7 million. This includes about 1 million in Auschwitz (via Zyklon B, in the 5 cremas and the two bunkers), about 1.4 million in the gas chambers of Sobibor, Belzec, and Treblinka (via petrol exhaust); about 150,000 in Kulhomf (via petrol exhaust); about 50,000 in Majdanek (via Zyklon B); about 50,000 in Maly Trostinets (via petrol exhaust); and many thousands more in other locations.

You can't provide a single autopsy report of a single person being gassed. So no you can't prove anything anywhere. Start with the basics and work from there.

The total Jewish death toll exceeds 5 million. This figure not only includes gassing and other deaths at camps, but mass shootings (by the Germans, the Romanians, the Croats, and local collaborators), starvation, and overwork.

So you can't prove any of your own implications but can readily make the math work by including deaths from everywhere. How convenient.

4. Exposure to Hydrogen cyanide (Auschwitz gas chamber) and carbon monoxide (Aktion Reinhardt gas chambers) at certain concentrations is lethal to human beings. The gas chambers were simply enclosed and sealed rooms that had a means of introducing HCN and carbon monoxide gas inside (e.g. holes/wire-mess columns in the roof of crematoria 2 and 3; a piping system at a Treblinka gas chamber). Not very hard to imagine how this process could kill people if you know or read some very basic chemistry.

Its not hard to imagine a machine that masturbates people to death, of which there are eye witness accounts. Proving they were actually built and used is another thing. Maybe you can find the masturbation machines, the bear and eagle cages, the electrified floors, the boiling pits of blood. Since all these seemed to be everywhere they must exist in some official capacity. Do some original research. Find the jackoff machines!

 

[History Speaks]

a machine that masturbates people to death, of which there are eye witness accounts.

This is a good example of how deniers do no research and just mindlessly repeat dead and discredited memes from image boards.

There are no "eyewitness accounts" of this. There is one guy who said this and he is a not an eyewitness, but is a confirmed fraudster (was not Jewish and was never in a camp). See https://www.smh.com.au/entertainmen...is-not-all-that-it-seems-20041217-gdkbx4.html

 

[Betonhaus]

This is a good example of how deniers do no research and just mindlessly repeat dead and discredited memes from image boards.

There are no "eyewitness accounts" of this. There is one guy who said this and he is a not an eyewitness, but is a confirmed fraudster (was not Jewish and was never in a camp). See https://www.smh.com.au/entertainmen...is-not-all-that-it-seems-20041217-gdkbx4.html

I think Bonesjones was being factitious to make a point. Using one's arguments against them and all that.

 

[RACISM]

is a confirmed fraudster (was not Jewish

Make up your mind, which is it?

 

[Lemmingwiser]

Not very hard to imagine how this process could kill people if you know or read some very basic chemistry

Maybe the best conclusion to your post wouldn't have been mentioning "very basic chemistry" when earlier in the thread you very embarrassingly showed to not even grasp the basics.

You know back when you were claiming that fat people were an energy source of fuel? And you didn't grasp the first law of thermodynamics?

 

[Bonesjones]

This is a good example of how deniers do no research and just mindlessly repeat dead and discredited memes from image boards.

There are no "eyewitness accounts" of this. There is one guy who said this and he is a not an eyewitness, but is a confirmed fraudster (was not Jewish and was never in a camp). See https://www.smh.com.au/entertainmen...is-not-all-that-it-seems-20041217-gdkbx4.html

Strange the things you choose to focus on and the things you choose to ignore. Why did you ignore the bulk of my post? Is it because you have no answer? Is there no autopsy done to prove a single jew was ever gassed by the Nazis? That really is the death of the Holocaust narrative. 6 million people were gassed to death but you can't prove it happened a single time? You aren't even a hack, you are no better than some deranged liar.

 

[History Speaks]

Strange the things you choose to focus on and the things you choose to ignore. Why did you ignore the bulk of my post? Is it because you have no answer? Is there no autopsy done to prove a single jew was ever gassed by the Nazis? That really is the death of the Holocaust narrative. 6 million people were gassed to death but you can't prove it happened a single time? You aren't even a hack, you are no better than some deranged liar.

First, while I hate to go debate bro on you, this is a logical fallacy. (argumentum ad ignorantiam). An absence of autopsies performed on victims would not prove the Holocaust didn't happen.

Second, as usual, the image board meme you're spouting isn't even true. Autopsies were performed on gassed victims. For example, the victims of gassing (via gas van) at Kharkov and Krasandor were autopsied. See this link.