🐷 The Killstream General Discussion Thread - Discuss Ethan Ralph's stagnant Killstream and his appearances on other shows.

[SpergioLeonne]

"Every AA group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions." -Short Form, 7th Tradition
"Alcoholics Anonymous is a group of men and women who share their experience, strength, and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism.
The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for AA membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. AA is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization, or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy, neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety."- AA Preamble

Very cool, commendable that they don’t even make overt campaign contributions. But now I wonder if they make referrals between other institutions.

When I said “they kind of participate in the commoditization of addicts,” I mean, I don’t know all the specifics of how AA does it’s business and it certainly sounds like effort was exerted to keep above griftosphere, but the addict griftosphere is massive and involves hospitals, halfway houses, detox centers, sober living facilities, etc. I imagine that it’s exceedingly difficult to keep completely unentangled.

I used to spend hours a day just picking up junkies from point A and dropping them off at point B, and you couldn’t even guess what the entity booking the ride would be. Maybe the detox center, maybe a third party junkie transportation company existing entirely on grants.

I just can’t drop my discomfiture from knowing that since a segment of the economy exists under government funding to transport junkies, that we will never run out of junkies.

 

[Friend of Dorothy Parker]

A suggestion for the Books That Ralph Will Never Read Club, anything by Dostoyevsky, especially Brothers Karamazov. Everything he needs to know about sin and redemption is there. Its free on audible, unabridged, I’d go with the Frederick Davidson narration.
Taking a look at DFW, he wrote many articles as well, might take a look at those.
And Ralph, to reiterate what others are saying, if you do manage to stay sober for at least 6 months, you may be brave enough to get a diagnosis for whatever mental condition plagues you. I suspect it’s more of a hefty dose of the womanly BPD because your personality is repugnant to behold in a man and is usually seen in Beauty Parlour cows.
Dostoevsky, Ralph. 24/7, in your ears.

In order to appreciate great literature/other culture on "sin"* & redemption from a "personal lesson/cautionary tale/inspiration" standpoint, you have to have a moral framework of some sort. So that's out.

*whether in the Christian sense or otherwise

AA kind of takes that away from people. Sure, “you have to do the work,” but all success will be attributed to God, and that implies so ought failure.

I have reacted negatively to it for this reason, among others. I think it doesn't have to work that way and done right it doesn't - done right you can thread the needle of accountability and God as a support/ strength provider in an essential sense (depending on your own religious/spiritual understanding), but mostly it turns out a bunch of white knucklers mistaking hope and fear for God (but talking about it a lot).

 

[TJBirish]

Very cool, commendable that they don’t even make overt campaign contributions. But now I wonder if they make referrals between other institutions.

When I said “they kind of participate in the commoditization of addicts,” I mean, I don’t know all the specifics of how AA does it’s business and it certainly sounds like effort was exerted to keep above griftosphere, but the addict griftosphere is massive and involves hospitals, halfway houses, detox centers, sober living facilities, etc. I imagine that it’s exceedingly difficult to keep completely unentangled.

But who is paying who? There's a collection at every meeting, but all that meager collection goes to buying coffee, cups, creamer, etc. Where is all this grift money generated?

 

[OrionBalls]

Very cool, commendable that they don’t even make overt campaign contributions. But now I wonder if they make referrals between other institutions.

When I said “they kind of participate in the commoditization of addicts,” I mean, I don’t know all the specifics of how AA does it’s business and it certainly sounds like effort was exerted to keep above griftosphere, but the addict griftosphere is massive and involves hospitals, halfway houses, detox centers, sober living facilities, etc. I imagine that it’s exceedingly difficult to keep completely unentangled.

I used to spend hours a day just picking up junkies from point A and dropping them off at point B, and you couldn’t even guess what the entity booking the ride would be. Maybe the detox center, maybe a third party junkie transportation company existing entirely on grants.

I just can’t drop my discomfiture from knowing that since a segment of the economy exists under government funding to transport junkies, that we will never run out of junkies.

There will always be junkies, and there will always be a place that is not tied up in any other organization whatsoever, for that junkie to get strong coffee, a cookie, and a group of people who want nothing more than to stay sober a day at a time by helping other people who want to stay sober a day at a time. That's what I love most about the rooms. There is no ulterior motive. Which is refreshing in this day and age.

I promise I'm done going off topic. Plz no ban, nice jannies.

 

[SpergioLeonne]

But who is paying who? There's a collection at every meeting, but all that meager collection goes to buying coffee, cups, creamer, etc. Where is all this grift money generated?

What I’m saying is I concede that AA might be an exceptional organization that HAS kept above the fray, but it’s difficult to take that on faith.

Forget coffee cups, go look at what a lease costs.

Also, with the best of possible intentions, they still might have to be plugged into other parts of the sector that are less ethical.

 

[TJBirish]

What I’m saying is I concede that AA might be an exceptional organization that HAS kept above the fray, but it’s difficult to take that on faith.

I'm not saying that it is.

Forget coffee cups, go look at what a lease costs.

What lease?

Also, with the best of possible intentions, they still might have to be plugged into other parts of the sector that are less ethical.

What "other parts"? What "sector"?

 

[MaltVinegarRespecter]

Forget coffee cups, go look at what a lease costs.

I'm looking up AA meetings in my neighborhood. Every single one of them is at a church. I do not think they're paying for meeting space in most locations.

 

[Some dude]

I'm not saying that it is.



What lease?



What "other parts"? What "sector"?

He just doesn't understand that it's not some massive org that has franchises everywhere, but small groups of people that meet in loaned out church rooms, YMCA, etc.

 

[TJBirish]

I'm looking up AA meetings in my neighborhood. Every single one of them is at a church. I do not think they're paying for meeting space in most locations.

He just doesn't understand that it's not some massive org that has franchises everywhere, but small groups of people that meet in loaned out church rooms, YMCA, etc.

He really doesn't understand how AA works. There is no money in it.

I have a problem with how many rehab programs push AA so hard vs other plans, but there doesn't seem to be any money in it.

 

[Mikoyan]

He really doesn't understand how AA works. There is no money in it.

I have a problem with how many rehab programs push AA so hard vs other plans, but there doesn't seem to be any money in it.

You may have answered your own question, really. They probably get pushed because they're one of the only ones not in it just for the take.

 

[MaltVinegarRespecter]

He really doesn't understand how AA works. There is no money in it.

I have a problem with how many rehab programs push AA so hard vs other plans, but there doesn't seem to be any money in it.

I quit drinking after I developed a severe drinking problem during the whole covid thing (everything else was closed but the bars were open). I thought about AA but after meeting one of their people I decided it was not for me. Dude went on and on about how the program helped save his life and he was sober for years on it. And he sat there talking all this nonsense completely unaware of the fact I recognized him from having bought a round at the VFW hall a few days prior. Now that's only one bad experience with the program, hopefully the rest of them are serious and not just there to play pretend and collect plastic coins.

 

[TJBirish]

I quit drinking after I developed a severe drinking problem during the whole covid thing (everything else was closed but the bars were open). I thought about AA but after meeting one of their people I decided it was not for me. Dude went on and on about how the program helped save his life and he was sober for years on it. And he sat there talking all this nonsense completely unaware of the fact I recognized him from having bought a round at the VFW hall a few days prior. Now that's only one bad experience with the program, hopefully the rest of them are serious and not just there to play pretend and collect plastic coins.

There's probably nobody who has gone to a meeting at some point in their life that doesn't have a similar stories. The failures far outnumber the victories. It doesn't mean the program is bad.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

Very cool, commendable that they don’t even make overt campaign contributions. But now I wonder if they make referrals between other institutions.

When I said “they kind of participate in the commoditization of addicts,” I mean, I don’t know all the specifics of how AA does it’s business and it certainly sounds like effort was exerted to keep above griftosphere, but the addict griftosphere is massive and involves hospitals, halfway houses, detox centers, sober living facilities, etc. I imagine that it’s exceedingly difficult to keep completely unentangled.

I used to spend hours a day just picking up junkies from point A and dropping them off at point B, and you couldn’t even guess what the entity booking the ride would be. Maybe the detox center, maybe a third party junkie transportation company existing entirely on grants.

I just can’t drop my discomfiture from knowing that since a segment of the economy exists under government funding to transport junkies, that we will never run out of junkies.

The rehab griftphere decided to commercialize and milk what AA said wasn’t a commodity that could be bought - sobriety. AA could have become a billion dollar industry but outright rejected that option and remains a true not for profit organization of addicts helping other addicts free of charge. But a whole lot of grifters saw what AA left on the table and were thrilled to start charging people to “get sober” or the secret to getting sober. A

I think your experiences with the “recovery industry” via driving around medicaid clients and rehab clients created confusion about AA. Make no mistake the recovery industry is more than happy to send their “clients” to free AA meetings to babysit addicts in their program or check a “treatment hours” box for the day, or run their own version of AA meetings. But AA is separate from the shady for-profit rehab industry that milk the government for every penny to deal with derelicts that have no interest in sobriety.

You have said your understanding all of this is via carting around junkies and felons to different half-way houses and "programs" so it's not surprising you don't really grasp the difference between AA and the for profit rehab industry. The chatter you hear from shady fares trying to avoid jail from their latest failed drug test or parole violation isn't very reliable information, but they are good examples of why you can't "force" someone to get sober by sticking them into so rehab program or sober living home.

 

[MaltVinegarRespecter]

There's probably nobody who has gone to a meeting at some point in their life that doesn't have a similar stories. The failures far outnumber the victories. It doesn't mean the program is bad.

I was able to kick it on my own. But I had the benefit of not having a drug problem attached to it or even a long-term drinking problem like Ralph. I only drank heavy for about 2 years. Not a decade plus. For those who it helps, awesome. Wish them all the luck in the world. But I do understand why some people are skeptical.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

I was able to kick it on my own. But I had the benefit of not having a drug problem attached to it or even a long-term drinking problem like Ralph. I only drank heavy for about 2 years. Not a decade plus. For those who it helps, awesome. Wish them all the luck in the world. But I do understand why some people are skeptical.

The people who drink/use drug for a few years and then realize it's fucking up their life and decide to quit are very different from guys like Ralph who have watched their life be repeatedly destroyed, for almost two decades, by using and continue to do so.

People that get into booze/ drugs for a few years and then put their house in order because they can see the damage they are doing, or what the future holds, are not the same as the addicts who have relied on booze/drugs their entire adult lives as a crutch in day to day life. The fact that Ralph has never, ever been a sober adult and has been using since he was a young teen makes him one of the hardest types of addicts to deal with.

I don't think Ralph could quit drinking on his own, but the idea he could quit Xanax and booze sitting alone in a Mexican hovel is pants on head retarded.

 

[SpergioLeonne]

You have said your understanding all of this is via carting around junkies and felons to different half-way houses and "programs" so it's not surprising you don't really grasp the difference between AA and the for profit rehab industry. The chatter you hear from shady fares trying to avoid jail from their latest failed drug test or parole violation isn't very reliable information, but they are good examples of why you can't "force" someone to get sober by sticking them into so rehab program or sober living home.

Fair enough, but I also don’t know how much there is to understand, or rather how much of what people with addictions want you to think is important to understand, is actually worth listening to.

I’m pretty sure that you could cut off all the legitimately old and disabled people and dedicate 100% of the funds from Medicare and Medicaid to “recovery” programs, and it wouldn’t affect the number of addicts we have because as long as the overall industry is a hugbox that sad fucks can trustfall into while people do the work to keep them from dying for them, then it’s a legitimate lifestyle and not even the worst one in inner cities.

 

[HackerX]

I don't think Ralph could quit drinking on his own, but the idea he could quit Xanax and booze sitting alone in a Mexican hovel is pants on head retarded.

The phrase "idle hands are the devil's plaything" rings true. It'd be one thing if was a functioning, productive member of a society. However, the only time he had any sort of structure in life came from incarceration.

Getting zooted every day at the house because he doesn't set a goal beyond 24 hours is all he knows. Along with being isolated in a foreign country AND extremely limited human interaction (which was obvious before he moved), it's no wonder his life went from shit to DEEP SHIT after moving to Mexico.

 

[SpergioLeonne]

What lease?

He just doesn't understand that it's not some massive org that has franchises everywhere, but small groups of people that meet in loaned out church rooms, YMCA, etc.

I'm looking up AA meetings in my neighborhood. Every single one of them is at a church. I do not think they're paying for meeting space in most locations.

When I type “alcoholics anonymous” in the search bar, the location assigned “1” is on Channel St in Boston, in between Mass Robotics and Pete’s Dockside.

Presumably this building is not a church, and the space is subject to a lease.

As I understand things, leases in Boston are expensive.

 

[MaltVinegarRespecter]

When I type “alcoholics anonymous” in the search bar, the location assigned “1” is on Channel St in Boston, in between Mass Robotics and Pete’s Dockside.

Presumably this building is not a church, and the space is subject to a lease.

As I understand things, leases in Boston are expensive.

View attachment 5111889

That's not a meeting place. Its one of their offices. According to the website:

"Central Service is NOT a “governing body”. It does not attempt to, nor can it, rule any A.A. Group. Central Service is a committee of A.A. members delegated by the member groups to act as a clearinghouse. The Central Office is supported by contributions from groups and members. Successful continuance of our services, and perhaps added services, can be assured only by the financial cooperation of the member groups through donations."

They do have some paid office space but it seems like its funded by members donation. I have no evidence to back it up, but I imagine nfps like AA get discounted rent in some places.

 

[Rogue AI]

Going on about the virtues of AA is fine and all, but has Ralph even managed to make it to a meeting now that he's back in Casa Avocado?