Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[mindlessobserver]

Its really amazing seeing how diametrically at odds the two threads are over the exact same thing. That being the latest kiev missile barrage. Its like we are all looking at the same thing, but in different dimensions.

In the Russia thread it was a hugely demoralizing strike that demonstrated Russia's ability to turn Kiev into a smoking crater while simultaneously showing how dogshit American Air Defense is.

Here, we see Russia getting increasingly desperate and having to resort to irreplaceable strategic weapons for demonstration strikes. Weapons that did not perform at all to the specs Russia publicly claimed they did, with most being intercepted and a lucky few getting through simply by shear weight of numbers. Numbers Russia has no ability to replicate repeatedly in a timely manner.

Its really bizarre tbqh.

 

[Foltest]

It is a T-54 tank with the turret replace with a ZIS 57mm AA autocannon.

Correct and it looks like shit from WWII.

 

[Coffee Mugshot]

Its really amazing seeing how diametrically at odds the two threads are over the exact same thing. That being the latest kiev missile barrage. Its like we are all looking at the same thing, but in different dimensions.

In the Russia thread it was a hugely demoralizing strike that demonstrated Russia's ability to turn Kiev into a smoking crater while simultaneously showing how dogshit American Air Defense is.

Here, we see Russia getting increasingly desperate and having to resort to irreplaceable strategic weapons for demonstration strikes. Weapons that did not perform at all to the specs Russia publicly claimed they did, with most being intercepted and a lucky few getting through simply by shear weight of numbers. Numbers Russia has no ability to replicate repeatedly in a timely manner.

Its really bizarre tbqh.

The fog of war is so thick in this thing that this becomes possible. I don't ever check their thread, but I'm sure it's just the same shit I see on twitter, /k/, and sometimes reddit. You can effectively choose to believe what you want and find verification for it. There are people I've run into who unironically believe that Ukraine has killed 200,000 Russians. The stupidity does really run both ways, although it weighs much, much heavier on the vatnik side.

 

[Snekposter]

It is a T-54 tank with the turret replace with a ZIS 57mm AA autocannon.

Yep, this baby.

Entered service in 1950. While WW2 saw a lot of advancement, autocannons bigger than 40mm just weren't feasible until afterwards. Not even the Germans with their very pressing AA needs could make a 50mm gun work. The USA came the closest with a 3-inch naval AA gun but it had the obvious downsides of being so heavy and mechanically complex thanks to its revolving drum feed it was completely unsuited to land use in addition to being an automatically loaded cannon as opposed to a self-loading autocannon.

 

[East_Clintwood]

Do we have a Brit in the thread? Can you explain why the UK helps Ukraine the most in West Europe, despite being one of the furthest away countries from Russia? Is there just a big public support and politicians are using it for clout? But I also heard that niggers and brownies in the UK do not care - and are even annoyed by all attention - about this war. Not sure about Pajeets.

I can, I've touched on this a few times in various posts in this thread, and in the predecessor one before it go locked. Ultimately I think it's a confluence of several things.

1)While it's true that our geographical position means Russia isn't a direct military threat, we've long been aware of the negative geopolitical ramifications of letting Russia have it's way. That's why we had the BAOR during the Cold War, and it's why we now lead one of the multinational battlegroups in the Baltics (specifically the one in Estonia IIRC)

2)It is, or at least was, quite popular with the public. Given how long it's dragged on there's an element of fatigue where people may not necessarily talk or think about it so much, but they still support it. Perhaps more importantly (and as I alluded to in a previous post) there's no large scale opposition to it either. Even with all the cost of living issues since, people generally attribute that to other shit like Brexit/general Tory incompetence/companies taking the excuse to jew us etc.

3)Related to the last point I think there is definitely an element of the politicians trying to use support for Ukraine, to bolster their own support. While it ultimately wasn't enough for to save Boris given the number, and severity of his other political fucky-wucky's, I definitely think it helped give him another few months he wouldn't have otherwise had

4)For whatever reason Ben Wallace, our Defence Secretary, who has been the main architect and driving force behind our support, seemingly has a hate boner for das Russkies. I'm not sure where it comes from, or if it's just a product of institutional distrust of Russians he picked up serving in the British Army. Either just before, or just after the initial invasion he gave a speech, the gist of which was basically we clapped the Tsar's cheeks in the Crimean War, and we can do it again if we need to. Also as I mentioned previously he's one of the few Western politicians who've broached the idea of eventually pushing Russia out entirely

Pressed on how far the West will support Ukraine in expelling Russian forces, Mr Wallace added that there is a "long way to go" before there is the prospect of Ukraine taking back control of Crimea.

"There's a long way to go before Ukraine pushes into Crimea," he told Sky News.

"I think what I would certainly say is, we are supporting Ukraine's sovereign integrity. We've done that all along. That, of course, includes Crimea.

"But you know, first and foremost, let's get Russia out of where they are now in its invasion plans and help Ukraine resolve and actually remember the Minsk agreement, which Russia has basically ripped up, was all about trying to resolve those two occupied territories.

"But the key thing is to continue to support Ukraine's sovereign integrity and their ability to defend themselves".

 

[Snekposter]

Either just before, or just after the initial invasion he gave a speech, the gist of which was basically we clapped the Tsar's cheeks in the Crimean War, and we can do it again if we need to.

I'd laugh at you guys for wanting to slap the Russians around to feel better about your loss of Empire if it wasn't for the fact the Russians are making schoolyard bullies look tough and competent.

Ultimately my fellow Kiwis, nobody likes a loser, especially one who acts tough but can't back it up. And while the British may not be as tough as they once were... they did at least manage to win a war a few thousand miles off their shores, and decisively so to the point that decades later the Argies are eternally seething and failing to cope, instead of slowly losing one just on the other side of their land borders to a goddamn rump state.

 

[Suck the Cock]

The fog of war is so thick in this thing that this becomes possible. I don't ever check their thread, but I'm sure it's just the same shit I see on twitter, /k/, and sometimes reddit. You can effectively choose to believe what you want and find verification for it. There are people I've run into who unironically believe that Ukraine has killed 200,000 Russians. The stupidity does really run both ways, although it weighs much, much heavier on the vatnik side.

This is why I check both threads, and it's basically my only news source on the war. It's impossible to get any source who doesn't shill for their side, so KF is one of the only sources I can trust to at least try and be neutral. Plus, I come here to laugh at retards so the Russia thread serves double duty. When it comes down to it, they were better at reporting the hit on the patriot battery and more accurately reflected how big a deal that was. You know, once you tune out all the chimping out about superior Russian might crushing part of a single American system, piloted by other slavs, for 5 pages straight. And how Eastern Europe is going to be an irradiated wasteland because a single ammo dump was hit. But then, this thread didn't have anything about the ammo dump, so I'm still getting useful info from the other thread. Separating the threads was a mistake, spending all our time in this thread makes it easy to forget that we have no idea what's actually happening, at best getting highly edited news from third-hand sources. Ukraine is still a small, poor, corrupt country, and Russia not being completely repelled means the war is still yet to be decided.

 

[Uranus Pink]

Keeping the threads separated overall is the best choice for the forum. Although shutting down the free-for-all thread(s) which had both sides and the spectating attending peanut gallery was the mistake.

 

[MG-34]

Man the US Army really fucked up not grooming this genius to Brigadier General. I'm sure at this point some Russian PR office is paying this fool 10 dollars for every retarded take he produces. I'm sure the retards in the sister thread are lapping it up though so maybe the Kremlin is getting their money's worth.

 

[Scout Trooper]

View attachment 5127956

Man the US Army really fucked up not grooming this genius to Brigadier General. I'm sure at this point some Russian PR office is paying this fool 10 dollars for every retarded take he produces. I'm sure the retards in the sister thread are lapping it up though so maybe the Kremlin is getting their money's worth.

I like that he hedges with "better tank than almost anything Ukraine currently has."

So you're saying Ukraine has some better tanks than this? Or maybe that goes for "or will be able to acquire in the foreseeable future," e.g., Abrams, Leopards, Challengers...?

 

[Oxyjen]

This is why I check both threads, and it's basically my only news source on the war. It's impossible to get any source who doesn't shill for their side, so KF is one of the only sources I can trust to at least try and be neutral. Plus, I come here to laugh at retards so the Russia thread serves double duty. When it comes down to it, they were better at reporting the hit on the patriot battery and more accurately reflected how big a deal that was. You know, once you tune out all the chimping out about superior Russian might crushing part of a single American system, piloted by other slavs, for 5 pages straight. And how Eastern Europe is going to be an irradiated wasteland because a single ammo dump was hit. But then, this thread didn't have anything about the ammo dump, so I'm still getting useful info from the other thread. Separating the threads was a mistake, spending all our time in this thread makes it easy to forget that we have no idea what's actually happening, at best getting highly edited news from third-hand sources. Ukraine is still a small, poor, corrupt country, and Russia not being completely repelled means the war is still yet to be decided.

Well, bring the news you find to the good thread pls!
Almost all objective war news is being hidden on Twitter. I follow quite a few of the bloggers, some Fins and some Brit military types, and they still post stuff but recently you have to actively name search them and read their feeds to find it - shit is definitely being suppressed.
You do still see Russia propaganda like the ammo dump thing, of course.

 

[Coffee Mugshot]

Defense officials and congressional staffers told CNN that Ukrainian troops have in recent weeks used the US-made Patriot air defense system to shoot down at least one faraway Russian fighter jet.

CNN article
Archive

Rob Lee notes:
"The only publicly confirmed recent Russian fighter losses occurred last week in Bryansk. Seems the Patriot may have been involved in the shoot down of the Su-34 bomber and Su-35S fighter."

Rob Lee Tweet
Archive

 

[MG-34]

I like that he hedges with "better tank than almost anything Ukraine currently has."

So you're saying Ukraine has some better tanks than this? Or maybe that goes for "or will be able to acquire in the foreseeable future," e.g., Abrams, Leopards, Challengers...?

I would really like to see his answer to how the T-62 is superior to the T-64/72/80. Whatever Nigeria tier thermal optic Russia can cobble together isn't going to provide parity with anything Thales or FLIR can provide to Ukraine. Perhaps a video game player can chime in but I doubt the ancient gun on the T-62 can penetrate the later USSR MBTs in the field. There's also a chance the South Koreans or Pakistanis will offload their surplus T-80U/UD which would put the Russians at a disadvantage. It will never not be funny that they not only had to resort to using T-62s but their fanboys will claim this isn't an L.

 

[Jewthulhu]

Its really amazing seeing how diametrically at odds the two threads are over the exact same thing. That being the latest kiev missile barrage. Its like we are all looking at the same thing, but in different dimensions.

In the Russia thread it was a hugely demoralizing strike that demonstrated Russia's ability to turn Kiev into a smoking crater while simultaneously showing how dogshit American Air Defense is.

Here, we see Russia getting increasingly desperate and having to resort to irreplaceable strategic weapons for demonstration strikes. Weapons that did not perform at all to the specs Russia publicly claimed they did, with most being intercepted and a lucky few getting through simply by shear weight of numbers. Numbers Russia has no ability to replicate repeatedly in a timely manner.

Its really bizarre tbqh.

It's not hard to twist anything to prove anything you want if you leave out enough context. These are the same people who will say the US "provoked" Russia into invading Ukraine by pretending that the 2014 invasion didn't happen, or that Euromaidan was a planned CIA coup.

I also don't doubt there's at least one or two legitimately paid shills on the site. If there's one thing Russia's great at, it's intelligence ops.

 

[Kendall Motor Oil]

Russia has limited ability to respond to a significant Ukrainian attack and is more likely than not to undergo collapse if pressed as a result.

I used to hear about Russian mobilization all the time. Is that still off the table?

Photo from Utah. Unknown if its the same tank or a different one. Same destination, though.

The first one had damage on the front right(from your perspective) tread guard.

New T-14 dropped. Leopard I, Leopard II, Abrams, Challenger II bros we got too cocky....

Literally out of my WarThunder Meta.

 

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

More progress on the acquisition of F-16s for Ukraine:

US signals to allies it won’t block their export of F-16 jets to Ukraine

https://archive.ph/rdSEv

 

[Blatant hypocrite]

Do we have a Brit in the thread? Can you explain why the UK helps Ukraine the most in West Europe, despite being one of the furthest away countries from Russia? Is there just a big public support and politicians are using it for clout?

I'd point out that the UK hasn't been delivering huge volumes of stuff. What they have is a number of high-tech systems, and what seems to be an immunity against Russian escalation threats.

In the Russia thread it was a hugely demoralizing strike that demonstrated Russia's ability to turn Kiev into a smoking crater while simultaneously showing how dogshit American Air Defense is.

Feb 2022: Ukraine has shitty air defences, Russia can bomb them to the ground
Dec 2022: Russia can strike strategic targets inside Ukraine
May 2023: We spent 3 months worth of Kinzhals to damage one Patriot launcher, the scientists at fault have been arrested for treason
But at least they can reach Kiev, right..?

 

[jalopy]

More progress on the acquisition of F-16s for Ukraine:

Ukrainian pilots were apparently evaluated for efficacy by the US Air Force in a simulator in the United States in late Feb, early March
Barring English competence, which added another 3 weeks, the evaluation concluded that 4 months would be adequate training for the Ukrainian pilots.
This evaluation was done for 4th gen fighters. Golly, I wonder which one.

I tried finding a download of the original leaked PDF, failing that I found pics and combined them into a single document. Attached.

 

[CuzinEd]

Do we have a Brit in the thread? Can you explain why the UK helps Ukraine the most in West Europe, despite being one of the furthest away countries from Russia? Is there just a big public support and politicians are using it for clout? But I also heard that niggers and brownies in the UK do not care - and are even annoyed by all attention - about this war. Not sure about Pajeets.

Do we even have enough proofs that the cook is speaking truth? I might remind you that he promised to pull out of Bakhmut on May 10. He is just not a trutworthy narrator.

He does not need to be. He is an owner and public speaker - not a general.

No, we don't have any proof. All we know is the Russians (Prigozhin/Wagner) have spent months screwing around in Bakhmut and accomplished nothing major. Many reasons could explain their failure there. But one those reasons could be the lack of ammo and supplies. Then you have to ask why Wagner isn't getting any support from the Russian military with ammo and supplies. Either the Russians are really low on those things or they are cutting Wagner off. The next question is why. Could is possibly be because Wagner has so far accomplished nothing while wasting large amounts of "soldiers". Wagner is supposed to be some of Russia's best. But I heard the Russian military are taking the soldiers out of Wagner.

If you are in war you need to have some accomplishments. Being a good speaker and the owner of PMC will only get you so far.

Its really amazing seeing how diametrically at odds the two threads are over the exact same thing. That being the latest kiev missile barrage. Its like we are all looking at the same thing, but in different dimensions.

In the Russia thread it was a hugely demoralizing strike that demonstrated Russia's ability to turn Kiev into a smoking crater while simultaneously showing how dogshit American Air Defense is.

Here, we see Russia getting increasingly desperate and having to resort to irreplaceable strategic weapons for demonstration strikes. Weapons that did not perform at all to the specs Russia publicly claimed they did, with most being intercepted and a lucky few getting through simply by shear weight of numbers. Numbers Russia has no ability to replicate repeatedly in a timely manner.

Its really bizarre tbqh.

It's mostly because the retarded levels of delusion vatniggers suffer from. That's really all it is. Their inability to admit the Russians have lost is just really weird and cringey.

This is why I check both threads, and it's basically my only news source on the war. It's impossible to get any source who doesn't shill for their side, so KF is one of the only sources I can trust to at least try and be neutral. Plus, I come here to laugh at retards so the Russia thread serves double duty. When it comes down to it, they were better at reporting the hit on the patriot battery and more accurately reflected how big a deal that was. You know, once you tune out all the chimping out about superior Russian might crushing part of a single American system, piloted by other slavs, for 5 pages straight. And how Eastern Europe is going to be an irradiated wasteland because a single ammo dump was hit. But then, this thread didn't have anything about the ammo dump, so I'm still getting useful info from the other thread. Separating the threads was a mistake, spending all our time in this thread makes it easy to forget that we have no idea what's actually happening, at best getting highly edited news from third-hand sources. Ukraine is still a small, poor, corrupt country, and Russia not being completely repelled means the war is still yet to be decided.

I only go to the vatnigger cope/delusion thread for laughs. It's just page after page of the most retarded delusional nonsense and cope I have ever seen.

Russia is losing. They started losing when they failed to take Kyiv topple the Ukrainian government and had to retreat from western Ukraine. These are Russia's goals. Not anything anyone else made up. When Russia couldn't accomplish it's strategic goals it was losing.

I would really like to see his answer to how the T-62 is superior to the T-64/72/80. Whatever Nigeria tier thermal optic Russia can cobble together isn't going to provide parity with anything Thales or FLIR can provide to Ukraine. Perhaps a video game player can chime in but I doubt the ancient gun on the T-62 can penetrate the later USSR MBTs in the field. There's also a chance the South Koreans or Pakistanis will offload their surplus T-80U/UD which would put the Russians at a disadvantage. It will never not be funny that they not only had to resort to using T-62s but their fanboys will claim this isn't an L.

The T-62 isn't superior to any Russian tanks that came after it. The T-62 can't penetrate any of the modern Western tanks at least not frontally. It might be able to penetrade the sides and rear of some of the tanks. The only Western tank that Ukraine has been given the T-62 would even stand a chance against would be a Leo 1. I think they were given some Leopard 1's. No matter what upgrades the T-62 gets it will still have that same 115mm main gun. But all of the tanks Ukraine is using could penetrate the T-62 from any angle. No matter how many armor plates the Russians bolt on.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

Regarding Wagner, The Telegraph of all people released a surprisingly decent video on Bakhmut few hours ago as a bit of a summary:

I remember Prigozhin referring to their activity in Bakhmut as Operation "Meatgrinder". I assume he though Wagner could actually tie down Ukrainian army there and grind them down to the point that Russia could retake initiative on the front. Isn't that overly optimistic?
Have they ever considered that they'd be turned into mincemeat just the same, especially considering that they're the ones on the offensive? Is this just hubris?
From where I stand, Wagner is more susceptible to attrition than Ukrainian army, even with gibs from Russian MoD.