Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[teriyakiburns]

https://archive.is/PfVKW

This support would once have seemed inconceivable. British policy toward Russia from 2006 through 2022 was defined by overt appeasement.

No mention of the fact that British foreign policy, in this regard, was bound by its membership of the EU to adopt the EU's common position on trade with Russia, which was dictated by France and Germany at the time. The EU's position was that trade would overcome Russian hostility and draw it into the western fold, working on the assumption that Russia was just like other European countries, and that the EEC/EC/EU's political intervention, to integrate European internal markets, was the driving force for peace on the continent.

Almost immediately upon leaving the EU, Britain's foreign policy stance toward Russia reverted to a pre-90s position of, if not containment, then at least opposition to Russian geopolitical goals. In that sense it's no surprise our government has been so aggressive; there's almost 30 years of pent-up glow that wants to shine forth on the matter.

In typical Russkie fashion, the West announces they're sending something to Ukraine, and Russia immediately announces they've destroyed 6 gorillion of them.

They should announce the sale of the HMS Prince of Wales to Ukraine and see how long it takes before the Russians claim to have sunk her.

 

[Parasole]

Bakhmut. Guess who.

Also Prighozyn made a video, where he told that Wagner took the city today. Which actually may even be a truth this time... so congratulations, I guess? Oh, and even in this video he was whining.

 

[Foltest]

It looks like finally, finally ,Russia have taken control of Bachmut after nearly ten months of fighting.
snippet from article:

May 20 (Reuters) - Russian mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin said on Saturday his Wagner fighters had completed the capture of Bakhmut, but Ukraine rejected the claim and said fighting was still going on.
Prigozhin made the claim in a video in which he appeared in combat fatigues in front of a line of fighters holding Russian flags and Wagner banners.
"Today, at 12 noon, Bakhmut was completely taken," Prigozhin said. "We completely took the whole city, from house to house."

Ukraine still say they are fighting on , but it looks critical.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-prigozhin-claims-full-control-bakhmut-2023-05-20/

https://archive.ph/rEuH5

 

[Uranus Pink]

@Ghostse Ghostse Abrams production also isn't licensed and the parts are heavy. Egypt will beg to differ as their Abrams are licensed built in Egypt. Abrams parts at worse no heavier than other Euro tanks like the Leopard II, Challenger II/III, and Leclerc. Ukraine is nearer the Political and financial are the bigger issues for the U.S. wanting Europe to handle the "Ukrainians need more tanks" problem. As the Abrams like the F-16s cost a bigger chunk of the $$$ the U.S. govt have allocated for military aid. Hence U.S. aid have been everything else that costs almost relatively peanuts in comparison. Leopard IIs being closer means less travel time if the Western European users had kept their Leo IIs in good condition. Instead of being no better than the Russians at AFV storage. This why tanks like thr Type-90 and the K1/2 weren't considered viable despite the South Koreans supposedly being very interested in getting real-life field data on the K2. Up until a few years ago all Japanese military hardware had been completely off the market as they're intended only for the Japanese Self Defense Force. Whether it was handguns all the way to aircraft. Which meant Japanese tanks like the completely retired and afaik scrapped Type 61s that been replaced with the Type 90. The Type 74 which currently being phased out as they're being replaced with the Type 10s. As for South Korean K2 Black Panther tank, the South Korean govt and Poland had already signed a deal for Poland to license build their own K2 variant. Although for the immediate future Poland will be using regular K2 until the production line is setup and more importantly needing tanks to replace the ones sent to Ukraine. Additionally South Korea and Turkey have already done an arm deal for licensed production for K2 tanks and co-development on the Turkish Altay tank.

 

[Cpt. Stud Beefpile]

Ukraine still say they are fighting on , but it looks critical.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-prigozhin-claims-full-control-bakhmut-2023-05-20/

https://archive.ph/rEuH5

Fuck it. Next stop is Kiev, right? If this falls?

 

[Average Thulean Man]

I, for one, fully expect another several months of talking about Bakhmut even if the Russians blitz all the way to Lviv by Tuesday. We will never be free.

 

[Super Saiyan Hitler]

Fuck it. Next stop is Kiev, right? If this falls?

Yeah, definitely. This map has been carefully edited to provide the correct, logical interpretation of the Special Military Operation. The capture of Bakhmut moves the upper red blob one whole pixel to the left.

 

[Cpt. Stud Beefpile]

Yeah, definitely. This map has been carefully edited to provide the correct, logical interpretation of the Special Military Operation. The capture of Bakhmut moves the upper red blob one whole pixel to the left.

View attachment 5130334

Wow, the mental map i had was wroooong. *slaps own hand*. Thanks.

 

[teriyakiburns]

Fuck it. Next stop is Kiev, right? If this falls?

Yes, but at their current rate of progress, it will take them about 25 years to get there. That will give Poland just barely enough time to enter the war on Russia's side and partition Ukraine with Romania.

 

[AgendaPoster]

One month late, but hey if you wanna have some good ol' fun, listen to Doctor Jordan B. Peterson's podcast on Ukraine with GOP Utah senator Mike Lee, which I think is quite popular/famous in the Republican Party.

Not worth bothering with video cuts and the sort I'm not gonna upload lots of data on Tor, sorry very slow.
If you want a TL;DR, basically JBP went full vatnegro enabler, and all the usual dumb shit is in the podcast, as if it's fucking Soloviev, not some "must save muh Western culture" alleged right winger.
- Russia has nukes, be afraid
- what does it mean for Ukraine and allies winning? (hard question for JBP and guest, it means expelling the invader from internationally recognized Ukraine)
- Mike Lee literally saying that Ukraine's Donbas and Crimea are "formerly recognized as Ukraine" (you fucking idiot, who but Russia is recognizing them as Russia)
- moaning about the amount of money given to Ukraine (maybe controversial, but I do think that if US gives all this to Ukraine, it must also invest into lifting poverty stricken parts of the US and more)
- literally saying that Russian-speakers in Donbas (they avoid using ethnicity, they use "minority language speaker", lmao) should have self-determination, completely unaware what that means for countries with often troublesome minorities, like mine, or Spain, or yes, Serbia. Self-determinate over the border, it's nearby, bbye!
These are just some takes, the podcast is littered with pure Kremlin talking points, Ukraine is like it doesn't even exist and can be spit upon, negotiated and torn apart, given as tribute to whomever might be strong enough to claim pieces of it.
Oh, and they think US is at war ("why was it not declared by Congress?") with Russia.
And JBP complains and seethes Every Fucking Podcast I listened to about anons and their Dark Tetrad personality (yes they added one more lunacy to Dark Triad traits lmao). It might seem schizo to you, but let JBP assure you, the anonymous Dark Tetrad demons are everywhere and they'll bring down society with social media posts!
Fucking retards.

 

[Ghostse]

Putin continued the illusion that Crimea is Russian clay by tradition of gulaging the native population there.

As you said, that's before you address the historic fuckery.

Up until a few years ago all Japanese military hardware had been completely off the market as they're intended only for the Japanese Self Defense Force.

There are numerous other issues with the T-90, correct. But no one has seriously looked at surmounting them for Ukraine. I want to say there was some logistics war game about Taiwan or Korea popping off.

 

[Snekposter]

Someone corrected me before that it's not ackhtuly white phosphorous but some other type of incendiary ordnance, supposedly not as bad
But who really know

White phosphorus isn't actually used when you want pure incendiary effect because it burns too hot and too quickly to do more than set the immediate area on fire. It burns itself out before the fires can really get going, which is why napalm is the preferred incendiary of choice dating back to WW2 following some tests the USA made on relative effectiveness. I believe the Russian incendiaries are a form of thermite, no doubt intended to just burn through anything from roofs to power lines to roads, with the possibility of setting things on fire secondary to the fact everything under their impact pattern is getting holes burnt in it.

Yes, but at their current rate of progress, it will take them about 25 years to get there. That will give Poland just barely enough time to enter the war on Russia's side and partition Ukraine with Romania.

I've done the math and even a snail would be well past Bakhmut from the Russian starting lines by now.

 

[East_Clintwood]

you fucking idiot, who but Russia is recognizing them as Russia

Hey that's not fair, someone other than Russia recognised them, such luminaries as *checks notes* North Korea and Syria, and that was literally it. Well so much for muh BRICS, or CSTO, or all the fucking -stans, or even Belarus whose leader is basically Putin's handpuppet. Lol. LMAO even.

moaning about the amount of money given to Ukraine (maybe controversial, but I do think that if US gives all this to Ukraine, it must also invest into lifting poverty stricken parts of the US and more)

Oh America absolutely can and should spend more money on it's own people. The thing with a lot of the aid to Ukraine is it's kind of misleading because a lot of it is drawdown from existing stocks (which has already been paid for, and was mostly bought to be lobbed at Russkies in the first place), and a lot of it is shit that would have expired and had to be replaced anyway, because shit doesn't last forever. Might as well give it to the Ukies and let them be the ones to toss it an Russians, risk free to Americans.

Oh, and they think US is at war ("why was it not declared by Congress?") with Russia.

Vatniggers would know if the US was really at war with Russia because the news would be filled with nothing but shots of the USAF and USN systematically reducing it down to the fucking bedrock. Ukraine managed to mog Russian air defence with a handful out of date soviet aircraft and some knock off Turkish drones, what the fuck do they think a USN CVG, or a flight of B-52s or B1's would do to them?

 

[Scout Trooper]

listen to Doctor Jordan B. Peterson's podcast on Ukraine with GOP Utah senator Mike Lee, which I think is quite popular/famous in the Republican Party.

Ezra Taft Benson and W. Cleon Skousen must be rolling over so hard in the Celestial Kingdom.

Utah politics are so weird I guess I should have expected some bafflingly stupid contrarian takes but this is exceptional even for them.

 

[Coffee Mugshot]

Important announcement: lmao.
(In case it isn't obvious, look at the date.)



Musk comment
[A]

 

[teriyakiburns]

We're reaching decisive tang strategic victory levels of cope.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

What the fuck is that thing, an old-time drag car with a AA gun mounter?

I think it's an older video filmed during the summer, and is probably an old tractor slammed, chopped, & then armored. Likely it was done by a shop (civilian or otherwise) as a morale project & to show off; and to be honest it's well done. We did the same kind of thing with wrecked shit from the can-point, although they never saw combat (regrettably).

At least one of the forward firing guns looks to be real, almost like a Vickers gun, although it's probably a Russian copy; the cannon on top is something from a BMP rigged with a stock & trigger; but I'm not a tankie or sperg about commie guns, so.... If it works I'd be impressed too; it's not a trivial thing to turn something meant to be fired with a solenoid into a shoulder-fired weapon, along with designing a functional mount.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

Times muh stronk Russia has had its ass handed to it, either by outright failure, Pyrrhic victory, or victory with such an abysmal KDR, against much smaller foes, that it is a disgrace.

Poles (lol)
Napoleon (smaller country nearly overruns you and you're saved by running away)
Crimea
Japan (wtf)
WW1 against the Central Powers (epic fail so hard your empire disintegrates)
Poles again (Jesus)
Finns (win just enough land to bury your dead)
WW2 (smaller country nearly overruns you and you're saved by running away, also despite fighting multiple small wars, a world war, and a civil war, somehow still don't have enough guns)
Hungary (embarrassing mess, tanks BTFO by proles w. bombs)
Chechnya (selling their own guns)

@Ghostse I don't know if there's supermajorities at all. I don't trust anyone's take on this because I know I'm getting sold propaganda either way. Anything from afterTrump, pretty much, is going to be irreparably tainted with slant. I know Russians were often abused after the Soviet Union collapsed and they were caught on the wrong side of the border, although many times they'd been in that area for hundreds of years (like Transnistria). Supposedly South Ossetians were being abused.

I'm more disgusted by Russia's worthlessness than anything else, especially because it shows there is no hope for anyone teaching the US a well-deserved lesson (Chinaboos are ever more retarded, they have no ability to fight at all).

 

[MS Paint Gigachad]

Times muh stronk Russia has had its ass handed to it, either by outright failure, Pyrrhic victory, or victory with such an abysmal KDR, against much smaller foes, that it is a disgrace.

Poles (lol)
Napoleon (smaller country nearly overruns you and you're saved by running away)
Crimea
Japan (wtf)
WW1 against the Central Powers (epic fail so hard your empire disintegrates)
Poles again (Jesus)
Finns (win just enough land to bury your dead)
WW2 (smaller country nearly overruns you and you're saved by running away, also despite fighting multiple small wars, a world war, and a civil war, somehow still don't have enough guns)
Hungary (embarrassing mess, tanks BTFO by proles w. bombs)
Chechnya (selling their own guns)

add the afghan war too i think

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

add the afghan war too i think

I looked it up once and was surprised that their KDR in it actually wasn't that bad, it wasn't as good as the US KDR in Vietnam but it was a respectable showing.