Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Blatant hypocrite]

How would the west react if Putin in a fit of anger nukes Belgorod? I mean he's already bombed it a few times.

Nail them on the Partial Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. North Korea can get away with it because they're a non-signatory, but Russia certainly is.

The treaty permanently forbids the parties to the treaty from conducting, permitting, or encouraging any nuclear explosion in the atmosphere, outer space, or underwater as well as "any other nuclear explosion" that threatens to send nuclear debris into another state's territory.

 

[teriyakiburns]

He will threaten us with the absolute certainty that the consequences will never be the same again.

HATO DUN GOOFED!

besides, it's not like the west is short on nukes either. Vatniks seem to forget that part quite often.

Ech, I don't like the possibility of escalation. Putin was unstable enough to start a pointless war with an incompetent military; is he stable enough to not resort to nukes when he loses?

 

[Ghostse]

Forgot to include talking about th ereport about T-62/55 as IFVs
- In addition to being unable to carry troops and sucking more fuel, they are slower. an IFV's armor is supposed to be speed and stealth something a T-55 wont' have.
- For infantry support, big gun does not equal better. You can't land rounds as close to your guys if they are big.
- Adding to that, accuracy is more important than power and Russian tanks are not known for their accurate gunfire, older tanks less so. This is to say nothing of vision, but I guess its not like BMPs are known for that.

Bakhmut has no real strategic value.

Once again, Bakhmut has value as a point you need to take and hold if you want to push deeper into Ukraine.
it is not worth what Russia as expended on it (most of all time) but its a piece of ground thye need to hold if they want to not worry about their flank.

Ukraine Military of Defense claim that they have done a semi encriclment of Bakhmut.

CAULDRON! TWO WEEKS UNTIL UKRAINE TAKES BAKHMUT!

RVK(Russian Volunteer Corps) attacked checkpoint "Grayvoron" in Russia, Belgorod region (with a tank). Now the fight is happenning in Grayvoron district, past the checkpoint.

Rename thread "Ukrainian Invasion of Russia"

The theory was that these dune coons in Iraq are like subservient people. They are used to being ruled over and controlled. If someone doesn't protect them they won't do themselves. They will just roll over and die.

There is a story from the early days of islam that I think encapsulates the Iraqi ethos.

A few decades after Muhammed went to his virgins, a particularly ruthless man rose to power over the Islamic world. Muhammad's grandson was still alive and living in Mecca, pissed off he had been politically out manuevered.

Several religious leaders in Iraq wrote to him, saying that if he came to Iraq, the Iraqi people would rise up to support him and promised him at least 20,000 trained and able men. So Muhammad's grandson left with a small contingent expecting to meet up with a large army he would lead to victory.

The ruthless guy got word of this happening, and sent one of his top generals to deal with the situation, and through spies, secret police, and offering rewards for information, crushed resistance. Muhammad's grandson's band's location was given up by the Iraqis and in short order it was out manuevered, and trapped in the desert without water where he refused to surrender and he and all of his men died by challenging the beseiging army to one-on-one combat achieving a 1.5 KTD which is pretty good for guys dying of thirst.

Anyway they call out the grandson of their most holy man to help them rebel, decided it is too dangerous, and left him to die in the middle of the desert without water.

 

[draggs]

Some scruffy bunch of partisans decked out in old af Soviet gear by hohol intelligence have captured more territory in Belgorod in less than 24 hours than Russia did in the last 3 months in Bakhmut

 

[NSJAP]

>month 15 of American SMO to decommunize Mexico
>while American government troops made no advances in a year, Valle Hermoso was captured by Jeffrey Epstein's "Tchaikovsky" PMC at the cost of "tens of thousands" of American lives
>Department of Defense begrudgingly acknowledges "Tchaikovsky" success, despite Epstein repeatedly calling Lloyd Austin a faggot in public
>celebrations are however cut short, as El Paso is evacuated due to attack from American communists in exile armed by Mexican government

 

[Super Saiyan Hitler]

I have looked at some of the Z Telegrams to get the Z-anon take, and they don't disappoint in their hypocrisy and insanity. Poor wittle Wussia is being attacked by proxy forces supported by another country

The attack on the Belgorod region is part of Western hybrid tactics to create a border zone of instability at the expense of terrorist proxies

DRG in the Belgorod region and the attack on aviation in the Bryansk region are links in the same chain. Obviously, there are suicide bombers with a one-way ticket to Russia right now. Kiev certainly could not carry out this operation without the help of Western intelligence services, detailed intelligence and competent management. Also, both recent incidents show that the enemy's tactics are varied and aimed mainly at probing different areas.

Fighting is now continuing in the Graivoron district of the Belgorod region, and the enemy has attempted to gain a foothold using a shield of civilians, but is still suffering casualties. This operation is of a purely terrorist nature and is aimed at creating a hotbed of instability and panic. It is noteworthy that the idea of the "Budyonov scenario" was declared by both Azov Nazis* and Zelensky personally, who, according to the Washington Post, repeatedly raised the topic at closed meetings.

In addition to the previously described options for strengthening border protection, it is worth emphasizing that such a threat to our territories can be fully minimized only by creating a 100-150-kilometer demilitarized zone on the territory of Ukraine. Otherwise, the enemy, guided by Western handlers, will continue to "improvise," looking for weaknesses in the Russian defense.

https://t.me/readovkanews/59351

The perfectly sane response to this is to completely militarize society and arm the population. When Ukraine handed weapons out in Kyiv, it was framed as an act of doomed desperation, but now that the world's second most powerful army, which is NOT at war, is doing it, it is suddenly okay, I guess.

Terrorist raids by the AFU under a false flag on Russian territory - why the military needs to distribute weapons

Today's raid by enemy ERGs in the Belgorod region, as well as a similar raid in the Bryansk region a few months earlier, clearly showed the need for a full-fledged territorial defense. The front line now stretches over 1,500 kilometers. It is the scale of the Great Patriotic War, and of course no one was prepared for such a development. But now we are at this point in history, and the problem must be solved "as early as yesterday.

Definitely, the border with the hostile terrorist state "Ukraine" should be strengthened as soon as possible with advanced surveillance, communication, targeting, reconnaissance and unmanned aerial vehicles. We have huge territories, and the personnel of the border troops and the regular army will not suffice. A cunning enemy will always be looking for bottlenecks. Border guards must be automated as much as possible. But this will take time. What can be done right now?

The most obvious option, familiar from World War II times, is to create "fighter squads" of recruited civilians with military service experience. In fact, we are talking about territorial defense (TOD). For this purpose it is necessary to recruit volunteers, train them, and distribute weapons. This will make it possible to create a first line of defense and promptly notify the enemy's actions. The TRO should be armed with both small arms and RPGs combined with heavy machine guns.

However, it is by no means a good idea to throw TROs into the thick of combat, as they do in Ukraine. We are talking about auxiliary troops, whose task is only to give time for the army to respond to an impending attack by Ukrainian forces or to buy it off on its own.

All this sounds unpleasant and surreal, but the alternative is a porous border, through which enemy saboteurs will still wander. And in this case we are already talking about protecting the lives of women and children, and preserving civilian infrastructure. Difficult times call for difficult decisions.

https://t.me/readovkanews/59335

While looking at this, I also remembered that Wagner had supposedly started recruiting "people's militias" in Kursk and Belgorod last year.

6.11.2022 in the press service of the company “Concord” received a question from the editors of RIA “On the eve. RU": "There was information that PMC "Wagner" announced the formation of centers for the training and management of the people's militia in the Kursk and Belgorod regions. Can you confirm that? And how do you see the process of organizing a militia?"

Prigozhin’s answer: “Yes, indeed, we are creating centers for training militias. In my opinion, the militia should consist of the first line, which lies entirely on the inhabitants of this area. In order to ensure the material component of the militia, I believe that we do not need to turn to government agencies, but to assign responsibility to regional business. If you own a small factory that employs 100 people, and 50 of them are sexually mature males, then 25% should serve in the trenches, and 75% should continue their labor activity. And so in a circle - one week in the trenches, three houses and at work. In this case, when the enemy comes to Russian land, all 100% will defend their country. For one kilometer of the contact line, 10 people are enough today. 100 miles for 1000 people. At a distance from them, deep into the country should be located military units with mobilized and other objects with security forces. A local resident, like no other, knows his territory, is able to fight the DRG and take the first blow if necessary. I believe that in the border areas it is necessary to focus on conscious business, and in response to their civic position, do not regret to represent them to high state awards and compatriots do not skimp on words of gratitude. This approach has always been and is in Russia. The Wagner PMC training centers themselves will be fully funded by me. I don’t have a federal or state budget. Of course, there will be a question of the non-proliferation of small arms in these territories. In the trenches, of course, everyone should stand with weapons, but its carrying should be prohibited in populated areas and outside the line of defense.

https://vk.com/wall-202284503_14883?lang=en

A new group of militiamen from Kursk and Belgorod regions completed a course of combat training in the training camp of PMC Wagner. A report from the scene was prepared by correspondents of the Federal News Agency.

On the territory of the base, the instructors familiarized the recruits with the tactics of combat, conducted practical exercises with small arms, hand grenades and grenade launchers GP-25. Each of the militias also received medical training, small teams in the trenches and a building assault workshop.

Militias from Kursk and Belgorod regions unanimously declared the importance of such a training program, given that their houses actually border Ukraine. They are the first frontier to deter the enemy.

https://vk.com/wall-10828329_4251127?lang=en

Even the Kursk governor supposedly received training in February 2023:

The first week of the new year with my colleagues from the administration of the Kursk region and the Kursk people from the voluntary people's guard was spent in the training camp of PMC "Wagner" surrounded by real men - patriots of Russia.

Already hundreds of Kursk citizens here and at sites in our region have been trained and will be able to defend their native land and support our army in case of need.

https://t.me/gubernator_46/2327

It would be very funny if it turned out that in true Russian fashion, a lot of the weapons and supplies for those militias had mysteriously disappeared. What a shame for Prigozhin that this comes just after his triumph, and just days before he intends to leave Bakhmut.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Bakhmut status! AFU continues to advance slowly around the flanks, and will soon have the Russian Army in an artillery cauldron. Progress is slow but inevitable with Ukraine taking full control within the next 2 weeks

 

[Parasole]

Belgorod. 5 minutes ago

 

[teriyakiburns]

Bakhmut status! AFU continues to advance slowly around the flanks, and will soon have the Russian Army in an artillery cauldron. Progress is slow but inevitable with Ukraine taking full control within the next 2 weeks

At this rate, we'll have a whole cookware set by the end of the year.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

Any more word on Zaluzhny? He personally intercepted a Russian missile a couple days ago:

Ukrainian Commander-in-Chief Severely Wounded in Missile Attack​

New information has emerged regarding the severe wounding of Ukrainian Commander-in-Chief Zaluzhny during a missile attack on the headquarters. According to sources within the hacker group “Joker DPR,” which has connections with agents in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the data on Zaluzhny’s condition has received serious confirmation. This revelation raises concerns about the transparency of information and the safety of the country’s leadership.

Archive

 

[Oxyjen]

Belgorod. 5 minutes ago
View attachment 5132628

Actual situation in Belgorod:

https://twitter.com/starskyua/status/1660660787235500034

 

[mindlessobserver]

I don't understand where Russia is getting the idea this is Ukrainian special forces doing sabotage. The men causing havoc in Belgorod are clearly a purely native response to the oppressive rule of Moscow. Naturally of course Ukraine sympathizes with their plight, but there are no proofs backing up the claim of direct Ukrainian involvement, let alone actual Ukrainian soldiers.

 

[teriyakiburns]

but there are no proofs backing up the claim of direct Ukrainian involvement, let alone actual Ukrainian soldiers

Clearly, the stories of little blue men, with NATO gear and Ukrainian accents, should be treated with the contempt they deserve.

 

[Pork Packer]

Hey guys!

Finally niggered out the TOR limk I was using before was dead and jumped aboard the new one....now I gotta ask........you know i gotta fuckin ask.....

HAS BAKHMUT FALLEN YET?!

....huh it has? For realzies? No take-backzies? Pinky promizies?

Well shit after the best part of a year and sending so many men and manlets into the meat grinder so wretchedly we got a brand new fucking IRL soyjak out the deal

and literally and unironically dozens of failed attempts, russia finally managed to theoretically take a town smaller than Casper, Wyoming.

*footage unrelated*

Guess I will have to find a new stick to beat the nigger that is russia wi.....wait what the actual fuckWHY IS CHRIS'S DICK FORCING ITS WAY INTO THE RUSSY-BARBUSSY?!

 

[teriyakiburns]

WHY IS CHRIS'S DICK FORCING ITS WAY INTO THE RUSSY-BARBUSSY?!

No, it's clearly prince Harry's frostnipped todger.

 

[draggs]

Actual situation in Belgorod:

https://twitter.com/starskyua/status/1660660787235500034

People screaming faggot at each other. That is the actual situation in all of Russia all day every day

The latent homosexity of Ivan is unmatched

 

[mindlessobserver]

Hey guys!

Finally niggered out the TOR limk I was using before was dead and jumped aboard the new one....now I gotta ask........you know i gotta fuckin ask.....

HAS BAKHMUT FALLEN YET?!

....huh it has? For realzies? No take-backzies? Pinky promizies?

Well shit after the best part of a year and sending so many men and manlets into the meat grinder so wretchedly we got a brand new fucking IRL soyjak out the deal View attachment 5132621 and literally and unironically dozens of failed attempts, russia finally managed to theoretically take a town smaller than Casper, Wyoming.

*footage unrelated*

Guess I will have to find a new stick to beat the nigger that is russia wi.....wait what the actual fuckWHY IS CHRIS'S DICK FORCING ITS WAY INTO THE RUSSY-BARBUSSY?!
View attachment 5132828

Fucking hell, whoever drew that map knew exactly what they were doing.

 

[Jewthulhu]

Bakhmut is not semi encircled

But hohols are advancing 500m-1km a day in the north and south both

So

2 WEEKS TO CULDROON?

Jokes aside, would rather not stoop to their level. Take things as they come and accept an L when there's an L, even if it's not really as big an L as the vatniks like to jerk themselves off to.

I wonder if it's really sunk in over at the Kremlin the nuclear bluff has already been called. Putin used that stick too freely and it's gotten old. nobody is taking it seriously, and even if they did allowing yourself to dictate policy through nuclear blackmail is a bad long term strategy.

besides, it's not like the west is short on nukes either. Vatniks seem to forget that part quite often.

Politicians obviously have reason to be paranoid over it so I don't entirely blame them from playing it safe. Obviously, Putin won't go straight to the nuclear option over Ukraine getting a few planes (whether F-16s or F-35s). But the risk of conventional retaliation may have the possibility of leading to an escalation eventually resulting in a nuclear exchange. I think that's why Western countries have been hesitant in crossing Putin's red lines, and I also think that's why Putin hasn't actually retaliated when they were crossed. I'm sure there is some hard red line somewhere, but Putin seems to be keeping everyone guessing where it actually is to get the west to do as little as possible.

Realistically, I think there's a lot more the west can do without realistically risking a unacceptable level of retaliation, but playing it safe and slowly pushing the envelope while there's time to play it slow is probably the best option politically.

 

[mindlessobserver]

I think that's why Western countries have been hesitant in crossing Putin's red lines, and I also think that's why Putin hasn't actually retaliated when they were crossed. I'm sure there is some hard red line somewhere, but Putin seems to be keeping everyone guessing where it actually is to get the west to do as little as possible.

The problem is Putin's "Red Lines" were unreasonable. The USA and Europe may not go to war with Russia because they invaded a neighboring neutral state out of fear for nuclear escalation, but doing nothing also carries with it its own risks. Western policy makers have been worried for decades now over the idea of "nuclear blackmail". Essentially, a revanchist power like North Korea or Iran gets Nuclear Weapons and then goes about acting on its Revanchist goals while threatening to use Nukes if anyone dares try and stop them.

This is a huge problem because it breaks the delicate balance of nuclear brinksmanship. The issue with "threatening" to use your nukes to accomplish a policy aim is the very act of using them as a threat constitutes use. While maybe not as direct a use as launching them at some cities or military formations, using the implied threat of nuclear weapons to get your way is from an end outcome perspective just as bad. You got what you wanted, not because you deserved it or had the winning argument. You got it because you USED the nukes. Not directly, but certainly by their indirect existence.

The US and the EU seem to have reached this calculation in their interactions with the war. They will insure there is no direct justifiable provocation to make Russia use nukes, like Say the UAF launching its offensive against Belgorod and Bryansk instead of Zaporizhia or Donetsk. At the same time though, the US and the EU cannot be seen as caving to nuclear blackmail for helping ukraine achieve justifiable ends. Namely, repelling Russia's invasion of its sovereign borders.

Setting aside all the cope and sneed from the Russian side about their justifications for the war and how its all really Ukraine and the Wests fault, the immutable fact is prior to 2014 everyone, including Russia, had recognized the borders of Ukraine. Until Russia UNILATERALLY ended the deal. All the claims for why are meaningless in the context of Russia then waving the nuclear sabre around and daring anyone to "do something about it". They got away with it in 2014. They did not get away with it in 2022, and this now creates a major game theory problem with no easy answer.

The west has already essentially called Russia's bluff on the use of Nuclear Weapons in the context of its invasion of Ukraine. As far as the game goes, Russia's only option at this juncture is to make good on the threat, proving it is not a bluff, or stop threatening to use the nukes all together and focus on winning the war conventionally. The reason all of Putin's threats of nukes, even in the context of Crimea are falling flat is because nobody believes Russia when it says it will use the nukes in Ukraine. They threatened to do so, and then they didn't. The only way Russia can restore the blackmail is by using nukes, which in and of itself ends the blackmail strategy entirely because an entirely new paradigm of response is created. Especially since Putin's only great power ally, China, has publicly told him not too do it.

Putin is in a real pickle.

 

[Fuck It We'll Do It Live]

Actual situation in Belgorod:

https://twitter.com/starskyua/status/1660660787235500034

People screaming faggot at each other. That is the actual situation in all of Russia all day every day

The latent homosexity of Ivan is unmatched

So basically just another friday night playing in a lobby full of Russians in CS:GO.