EU It's over, French kiwis: France bans short-haul flights

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France bans short-haul flights​

France is the first country to ban short-haul flights. For the Greens, however, the measure does not go far enough, because harmful emissions are only minimally reduced as a result.
Stefan Brändle
June 1, 2023, 09:00


Paris - Those who can take the train should no longer use the plane: Following this motto, the French government is banning certain air routes between cities that can be reached comfortably and without changing trains. "This measure is a world first," Transport Minister Clément Beaune rejoiced Tuesday. "It is part of our efforts to promote the use of climate-friendly means of transport."

Specifically, three scheduled flights from Bordeaux, Nantes and Lyon to Paris-Orly will be cancelled. There is a TGV train connection of less than two and a half hours between these cities. This is the main criterion for the cancellation of the flights. A 150-member citizens' assembly convened by President Emmanuel Macron to prepare a climate law had gone further in 2021: It also wanted to cancel flights to destinations that could be reached in a four-hour train ride. This would have affected eight cities, including the Mediterranean city of Marseille, which can be reached from Paris in a three-hour TGV ride.

However, airport operators had filed a lawsuit because of the restriction on freedom of movement. The French Council of State and the EU Commission in Brussels finally approved the criterion of two and a half hours of alternative train travel time. The green party EELV said the new ban was useless because the three affected lines had already been discontinued. Beaune countered that this showed the effectiveness of the measure: "These routes were not cancelled by the Holy Spirit, but because the flight ban was approaching," he noted this week via Twitter.

However, "Citizen's Collective 06," which operates on the Côte d'Azur, accuses Beaune of deliberately sparing busy routes such as Nice-Paris or Marseille-Paris, which require a TGV journey time of three to five hours. Macron's new measure is a "masquerade" and thus a prime example of hypocritical "greenwashing".

For their part, transport experts point out that the two-and-a-half-hour criterion would still allow flights between Bordeaux or Nantes and Roissy Airport in Paris. In fact, from Bordeaux to the international terminals of Roissy, the TGV takes more than three hours. Beaune justifies this exceptional case by saying that entire cities cannot be deprived of connections to worldwide destinations. International connections via the international Air France hub in Roissy are excluded from the ban anyway.

Only minus 0.23 percent
Climate activists complain that the short-haul flight ban that has now been enacted will only reduce CO2 emissions by 0.23 percent of total air traffic in France. Beaune knows the answer to that, too: the new route ban is just a start, and the government prefers airlines to close routes themselves before the ban takes effect. "But of course we have to go further," the transport minister added. "We will include more and more lines by increasing the alternative travel time by TGV to three hours, for example. This should close more lines."

In Vienna, Austrian Airlines has already committed to shifting the Salzburg-Vienna Airport route to rail, which takes three hours. The same is planned for Graz.

Pressure is also mounting for private jets. Austria, France and the Netherlands have written to the EU Commission these days to restrict air travel in private jets. Beaune explained that both flight restrictions and higher taxation of private air travel are conceivable, both at national and European level. EU transport ministers plan to discuss the issue on Thursday. (Stefan Brändle from Paris, 6/1/2023)

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stupid question probably, why dont they just make eletric plane? Is it just not efficient to fly a plane? Just get some big ass battery. charge them up at the airport and send it on its way. I realize taking off the ground probably require more energy than just rolling around but arent we going to get there eventually?
It's not a stupid question, and it's something that people are looking at, it's just I don't think you have any concept of how much batteries weigh (hint: it's a fucking lot, the battery in a Tesla Model 3 weighs over 1000lbs), or how inefficient they are compared to old fashioned fuel. Wired actually did a good article on electric planes a while ago and the numbers are wild.:
The need to keep weight down without sacrificing range or power makes energy density the all-important figure. Right now, the specific energy of batteries is roughly 2 percent that of liquid fuel. Factor in the efficiency of electric powertrains compared to internal combustion engines, and yet get closer to 7 percent—so 1,000 pounds of jet fuel yields about 14 times more energy than a 1,000-pound battery.
 
My tin foil hat is equipped.

I don't believe this is to do with climate change and more to do with restricting travel for the common person. Take a look at the UK for example, there are strikes, automated passport computer failures, long delays on the main motorways, roadworks on same motorways and all of these happen leading up to or during a bank holiday or 'school holiday'. The cost to travel doubles or triples during these times and taking your kids out of school during school terms lands you with massive fines.

There's an effort being made to keep people in their homes and prevent travel. Those private jets will never be banned though.

If you think this is about climate, think of this: A standard plane takes 100 people, for talks sake. 100 people do a 2hr journey by plane, now those 100 people have do those journeys by either train or car. That can't be good for the environment.
 
am i the only one to read the article in full here? its not exactly a long read. most of these trips to paris listed would take about 2 hours by train. thats reasonable. nice/marseille to paris is longer (about 3 hours) but thats about it really. theyre also talking about restricting private jet use for short haul flights in the article too. also lest we forget cargo trains are a thing for shipping short haul distances and they probably have a decent system for that in france. this isnt america after all. its a country similar in size to texas
 
am i the only one to read the article in full here? its not exactly a long read. most of these trips to paris listed would take about 2 hours by train. thats reasonable. nice/marseille to paris is longer (about 3 hours) but thats about it really. theyre also talking about restricting private jet use for short haul flights in the article too. also lest we forget cargo trains are a thing for shipping short haul distances and they probably have a decent system for that in france. this isnt america after all. its a country similar in size to texas
The main problem is this part:
the new route ban is just a start, and the government prefers airlines to close routes themselves before the ban takes effect. "But of course we have to go further," the transport minister added. "We will include more and more lines by increasing the alternative travel time by TGV to three hours, for example. This should close more lines."
They're not even hiding that this is just the beginning. Today it's all short haul flights that can be traversed by train in 2 or less hours. Tomorrow it will be 3 hours. Then 4, 5, 6. Then all domestic flights. Eventually international to neighboring countries until the only flights are for politicians and the ultra wealthy.
The government would prefer that the airlines close the routes themselves, but when they don't they'll just ban them anyways and force them closed.
 
The main problem is this part:

They're not even hiding that this is just the beginning. Today it's all short haul flights that can be traversed by train in 2 or less hours. Tomorrow it will be 3 hours. Then 4, 5, 6. Then all domestic flights. Eventually international to neighboring countries until the only flights are for politicians and the ultra wealthy.
The government would prefer that the airlines close the routes themselves, but when they don't they'll just ban them anyways and force them closed.
I think that's a bit of a doom post. I mean, it is France for fuck's sake. They can barely keep a government together for 30 years.
 
My tin foil hat is equipped.

I don't believe this is to do with climate change and more to do with restricting travel for the common person. Take a look at the UK for example, there are strikes, automated passport computer failures, long delays on the main motorways, roadworks on same motorways and all of these happen leading up to or during a bank holiday or 'school holiday'. The cost to travel doubles or triples during these times and taking your kids out of school during school terms lands you with massive fines.
That's because the Tories have cucked and fucked Britain. Now no one in Britain can afford shit everyone's on strike and of course they strike to cause massive disruption. They sold out Britain like they sold the out the Royal Mail. At a low price which increased almost immediately.
There's an effort being made to keep people in their homes and prevent travel. Those private jets will never be banned though.
You've found the secret to all environmental cucks Greta Thunberg will now call you out on Twitter and you will be sent to a Romanian prison.
If you think this is about climate, think of this: A standard plane takes 100 people, for talks sake. 100 people do a 2hr journey by plane, now those 100 people have do those journeys by either train or car. That can't be good for the environment.
Trains are definitely fewer emissions than planes and a full car has less emissions than a plane. Even with all the improvements made with Turbofans plane travel really only makes sense for the medium-long haul flights.
 
am i the only one to read the article in full here? its not exactly a long read. most of these trips to paris listed would take about 2 hours by train. thats reasonable. nice/marseille to paris is longer (about 3 hours) but thats about it really. theyre also talking about restricting private jet use for short haul flights in the article too. also lest we forget cargo trains are a thing for shipping short haul distances and they probably have a decent system for that in france. this isnt america after all. its a country similar in size to texas
I read it, but I don't know enough about French trains to comment on it's accuracy. I mean here in the UK they claim a train between Manchester and London is ~2.5 hrs, but I can tell you from extensive personal experience that's absolute fucking bollocks, even assuming the train isn't just fucking up and cancelled at the last minute.

I mean, it is France for fuck's sake. They can barely keep a government together for 30 years.
You say that like politicians aren't all the exact fucking same these days, whoever is in charge will undoubtedly push this shit through, either because of muh environmentalism, or because railways in France are state-owned and subsidized meaning they have a direct financial incentive to force you onto them.
 
I read it, but I don't know enough about French trains to comment on it's accuracy. I mean here in the UK they claim a train between Manchester and London is ~2.5 hrs, but I can tell you from extensive personal experience that's absolute fucking bollocks, even assuming the train isn't just fucking up and cancelled at the last minute.


You say that like politicians aren't all the exact fucking same these days, whoever is in charge will undoubtedly push this shit through, either because of muh environmentalism, or because railways in France are state-owned and subsidized meaning they have a direct financial incentive to force you onto them.
I write that (have to PL here) knowing the world is constantly in flux, France always more so, and feel free to disagree.

Just sayin'. I could be wrong but I doubt it. France turns on a fucking dime. Now if the U.S. does that shit,...well....
 
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This is fine, those short flighta are stupid anyway. the real issue is their stupid speed limit, you cant drive like a normal person in france...
 
If they fucked with enough direct flights wouldn't people just add an stop to their flights? Could end up with even more air travel thanks to this since I doubt they could ban you picking two flights rather than one.
 
most of these trips to paris listed would take about 2 hours by train. thats reasonable.
It's not, and never will be, reasonable for the government to arbitrarily interfere in the market like this. If airlines want to run the routes and people want to fly on them then bureaucrats should stick to their knitting and leave everyone alone.

Ever notice how people who make a career of politics at any level never have any experience working in the real economy? If they were all such revolutionary smart thinkers how come nobody who has to make a profit to live wants to hear from them?
:thinking:
 
This is the type of shit that the green party with a very Parisian mindset want to force on the rest of the country.
Since to them it's never enough, I wonder what they think of those who have families in the DOM/TOM. I've seen green retards say that they should just use Skype.
 
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Yeah this was my thought. You do t take that flights becasue you only fly you take it as a hub and spoke. With kids changing to a train with luggage is mightmareish, you wouldn’t do it.
Also I suppose private planes are exempt…
Private aviation being so thoroughly locked down is a thing I take great umbrage with. A nigh endless sky and most people are banned from flying in it.

Planes should be as ubiquitous as cars.
 
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