Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

This one is my favorite. We were assured that learning to operate an M1/Leopard is just like driving the family sedan.
Two more weeks One day

Edit: Just learned that the Russian town of Readovka in Belgorod oblast was invaded by the totes legit Russia Legionaries! It's over for Russia!

photo_2023-06-04_23-37-06.jpg

Oh no Russkisisters, wat do? Maybe Mayor Sasha Kotsnews should ask General War Gonzo for assistance?

Link to this stunning exposé

:story:
 
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Two more weeks One day

Edit: Just learned that the Russian town of Readovka in Belgorod oblast was invaded by the totes legit Russia Legionaries! It's over for Russia!

View attachment 5149647

On now Russkisisters, wat do? Maybe Mayor Sasha Kotsnews should ask General War Gonzo for assistance?

Link to this stunning exposé

:story:
Putin needs 6 more kills before he gets a tactical nuke. Until then, he has to use non-tactical nukes.
 
is to try and get an *laughs* organic 'revolution' going in these border towns. Its basically like a retarded attempt to build an insurgency or something.
Lets say for the sake of argument that this insane retarded plan somehow works and putin is replaced by a west-friendly regime, what then? are they going to invite them to nato? shower them with money like they did to japan and germany so they stay loyals? or are they gonna let it all go down like in the 90s hoping that this time russia will just keep degenerating instead of choosing a new putin?
 
Lets say for the sake of argument that this insane retarded plan somehow works and putin is replaced by a west-friendly regime, what then? are they going to invite them to nato? shower them with money like they did to japan and germany so they stay loyals? or are they gonna let it all go down like in the 90s hoping that this time russia will just keep degenerating instead of choosing a new putin?
Honestly its not worth discussing because China would never let it happen. The plan itself is a PR stunt for generals, an attempt to get Russia to escalate to involve NATO and skirting dangerously close to WWIII territory by involving foreign soldiers.
 
Lets say for the sake of argument that this insane retarded plan somehow works and putin is replaced by a west-friendly regime, what then? are they going to invite them to nato? shower them with money like they did to japan and germany so they stay loyals? or are they gonna let it all go down like in the 90s hoping that this time russia will just keep degenerating instead of choosing a new putin?
They think destabilizing Russia and turning into 40-50 Bantustans will keep Russia from ever regaining power.

That said, they give two fucks about all the war and suffering such a thing would cause because just like the Nazis, NATO views the Russians as subhuman
 
NY Times is troubled by those zany Ukes and their love of Yahtzee symbolism. What's a good east coast liberal to do? 🤷‍♂️

FWIW, I thought this was kind of old news. Little surprised to see the NYT commenting on it yesterday. I know this doesn't directly relate to the military situation, so apologies if it is too far off topic. Still, the influence of the NY Times on TPTB cannot be understated.

Nazi Symbols on Ukraine’s Front Lines Highlight Thorny Issues of History (paywall)

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An image of a Ukrainian soldier wearing a patch containing the Totenkopf symbol, an example of Nazi iconography, that was posted on the Twitter account of Ukraine’s Defense Ministry, then deleted.Credit...Vlad Novak, via Ukraine MOD Twitter
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A Ukrainian service member is wearing what appears to be a Black Sun on the chest of her uniform in this photograph published by the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on Feb. 14 and on the NATO Twitter account before being deleted.Credit...General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

Source : https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/world/europe/nazi-symbols-ukraine.html
Nazi Symbols on Ukraine’s Front Lines Highlight Thorny Issues of History
KYIV, Ukraine — Since Russia began its invasion of Ukraine last year, the Ukrainian government and NATO allies have posted, then quietly deleted, three seemingly innocuous photographs from their social media feeds: a soldier standing in a group, another resting in a trench and an emergency worker posing in front of a truck.

In each photograph, Ukrainians in uniform wore patches featuring symbols that were made notorious by Nazi Germany and have since become part of the iconography of far-right hate groups.

The photographs, and their deletions, highlight the Ukrainian military’s complicated relationship with Nazi imagery, a relationship forged under both Soviet and German occupation during World War II.

That relationship has become especially delicate because President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia has falsely declared Ukraine to be a Nazi state, a claim he has used to justify his illegal invasion.

Ukraine has worked for years through legislation and military restructuring to contain a fringe far-right movement whose members proudly wear symbols steeped in Nazi history and espouse views hostile to leftists, L.G.B.T.Q. movements and ethnic minorities. But some members of these groups have been fighting Russia since the Kremlin illegally annexed part of the Crimea region of Ukraine in 2014 and are now part of the broader military structure. Some are regarded as national heroes, even as the far-right remains marginalized politically.

The iconography of these groups, including a skull-and-crossbones patch worn by concentration camp guards and a symbol known as the Black Sun, now appears with some regularity on the uniforms of soldiers fighting on the front line, including soldiers who say the imagery symbolizes Ukrainian sovereignty and pride, not Nazism.

In the short term, that threatens to reinforce Mr. Putin’s propaganda and giving fuel to his false claims that Ukraine must be “de-Nazified” — a position that ignores the fact that Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, is Jewish. More broadly, Ukraine’s ambivalence about these symbols, and sometimes even its acceptance of them, risks giving new, mainstream life to icons that the West has spent more than a half-century trying to eliminate.

“What worries me, in the Ukrainian context, is that people in Ukraine who are in leadership positions, either they don’t or they’re not willing to acknowledge and understand how these symbols are viewed outside of Ukraine,” said Michael Colborne, a researcher at the investigative group Bellingcat who studies the international far right. “I think Ukrainians need to increasingly realize that these images undermine support for the country.”

In a statement, the Ukrainian Defense Ministry said that, as a country that suffered greatly under German occupation, “We emphasize that Ukraine categorically condemns any manifestations of Nazism.”

So far, the imagery has not eroded international support for the war. It has, however, left diplomats, Western journalists and advocacy groups in a difficult position: Calling attention to the iconography risks playing into Russian propaganda. Saying nothing allows it to spread.

Even Jewish groups and anti-hate organizations that have traditionally called out hateful symbols have stayed largely silent. Privately, some leaders have worried about being seen as embracing Russian propaganda talking points.

Questions over how to interpret such symbols are as divisive as they are persistent, and not just in Ukraine. In the American South, some have insisted that today, the Confederate flag symbolizes pride, not its history of racism and secession. The swastika was an important Hindu symbol before it was co-opted by the Nazis.

In April, Ukraine’s Defense Ministry posted a photograph on its Twitter account of a soldier wearing a patch featuring a skull and crossbones known as the Totenkopf, or Death’s Head. The specific symbol in the picture was made notorious by a Nazi unit that committed war crimes and guarded concentration camps during World War II.

The patch in the photograph sets the Totenkopf atop a Ukrainian flag with a small No. 6 below. That patch is the official merchandise of Death in June, a British neo-folk band that the Southern Poverty Law Center has said produces “hate speech” that “exploits themes and images of fascism and Nazism.”

The Anti-Defamation League considers the Totenkopf “a common hate symbol.” But Jake Hyman, a spokesman for the group, said it was impossible to “make an inference about the wearer or the Ukrainian Army” based on the patch.

“The image, while offensive, is that of a musical band,” Mr. Hyman said.

The band now uses the photograph posted by the Ukrainian military to market the Totenkopf patch.

The New York Times asked the Ukrainian Defense Ministry on April 27 about the tweet. Several hours later, the post was deleted. “After studying this case, we came to the conclusion that this logo can be interpreted ambiguously,” the ministry said in a statement.

The soldier in the photograph was part of a volunteer unit called the Da Vinci Wolves, which started as part of the paramilitary wing of Ukraine’s Right Sector, a coalition of right-wing organizations and political parties that militarized after Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea.

At least five other photographs on the Wolves’ Instagram and Facebook pages feature their soldiers wearing Nazi-style patches, including the Totenkopf.

NATO militaries, an alliance that Ukraine hopes to join, do not tolerate such patches. When such symbols have appeared, groups like the Anti-Defamation League have spoken out, and military leaders have reacted swiftly.

Last month, Ukraine’s state emergency services agency posted on Instagram a photograph of an emergency worker wearing a Black Sun symbol, also known as a Sonnenrad, that appeared in the castle of Heinrich Himmler, the Nazi general and SS director. The Black Sun is popular among neo-Nazis and white supremacists.

In March 2022, NATO’s Twitter account posted a photograph of a Ukrainian soldier wearing a similar patch.

A Ukrainian service member is wearing what appears to be a Black Sun on the chest of her uniform in this photograph published by the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on Feb. 14 and on the NATO Twitter account before being deleted.Credit...General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
Both photographs were quickly removed.

In November, during a meeting with Times reporters near the front line, a Ukrainian press officer wore a Totenkopf variation made by a company called R3ICH (pronounced “Reich”). He said he did not believe the patch was affiliated with the Nazis. A second press officer present said other journalists had asked soldiers to remove the patch before taking photographs.

Ihor Kozlovskyi, a Ukrainian historian and religious scholar, said that the symbols had meanings that were unique to Ukraine and should be interpreted by how Ukrainians viewed them, not by how they had been used elsewhere.

“The symbol can live in any community or any history independently of how it is used in other parts of Earth,” Mr. Kozlovskyi said.

Russian soldiers in Ukraine have also been seen wearing Nazi-style patches, underscoring how complicated interpreting these symbols can be in a region steeped in Soviet and German history.

The Soviet Union signed a nonaggression pact with Germany in 1939, so it was caught by surprise two years later when the Nazis invaded Ukraine, which was then part of the Soviet Union. Ukraine had suffered greatly under a Soviet government that engineered a famine that killed millions. Many Ukrainians initially viewed the Nazis as liberators.

Factions from the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and its insurgent army fought alongside the Nazis in what they viewed as a struggle for Ukrainian sovereignty. Members of those groups also took part in atrocities against Jewish and Polish civilians. Later in the war, though, some of the groups fought against the Nazis.

Some Ukrainians joined Nazi military units like the Waffen-SS Galizien. The emblem of the group, which was led by German officers, was a sky-blue patch showing a lion and three crowns. The unit took part in a massacre of hundreds of Polish civilians in 1944. In December, after a yearslong legal battle, Ukraine’s highest court ruled that a government-funded research institute could continue to list the unit’s insignia as excluded from the Nazi symbols banned under a 2015 law.

Today, as a new generation fights against Russian occupation, many Ukrainians see the war as a continuation of the struggle for independence during and immediately after World War II. Symbols like the flag associated with the Ukrainian Insurgent Army and the Galizien patch have become emblems of anti-Russian resistance and national pride.

A Russian volunteer fighter for the Ukrainian Army, center, wearing a Galizien patch and another featuring a Totenkopf in southern Ukraine in 2022.Credit...Ivor Prickett for The New York Times
That makes it difficult to easily separate, on the basis of icons alone, the Ukrainians enraged by the Russian invasion from those who support the country’s far-right groups.

Units like the Da Vinci Wolves, the better-known Azov regiment and others that began with far-right members have been folded into the Ukrainian military, and have been instrumental in defending Ukraine from Russian troops.

The Azov regiment was celebrated after holding out during the siege of the southern city of Mariupol last year. After the commander of the Da Vinci Wolves was killed in March, he received a hero’s funeral, which Mr. Zelensky attended.

“I think some of these far-right units mix a fair bit of their own mythmaking into the public discourse on them,” said Mr. Colborne, the researcher. “But I think the least that can and should be done everywhere, not just Ukraine, is not allowing the far right’s symbols, rhetoric and ideas to seep into public discourse.”

Kitty Bennett and Susan C. Beachy contributed research.

Thomas Gibbons-Neff is a Ukraine correspondent and a former Marine infantryman. @tmgneff

(+)
 
Been reading Ukraine is trying to push in pretty much the same area and ended up already losing 2 Leopard tanks according to a Russian soldier. One tank was destroyed by artillery and the other by a mine, so according to sources on Instagram the Ukrainians attacked with 9 tanks and lost 2 of them. Also saw footage of 2 or 3 burnt BT-4s.
 
Lets say for the sake of argument that this insane retarded plan somehow works and putin is replaced by a west-friendly regime, what then? are they going to invite them to nato? shower them with money like they did to japan and germany so they stay loyals? or are they gonna let it all go down like in the 90s hoping that this time russia will just keep degenerating instead of choosing a new putin?
What you describe has been US strategy in the former Soviet bloc countries for many years. Undermine and replace the current gov't with friendly puppets who will allow US corporate interests to extract the resources and export profits. Then they can repeat the process on China's border.
 
highlight the Ukrainian military’s complicated relationship with Nazi imagery, a relationship forged under both Soviet and German occupation during World War II.
Nothing complicated about about these flags and salutes.FNCQ_ZyaIAAJxqs.jpg
That relationship has become especially delicate because President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia has falsely declared Ukraine to be a Nazi state, a claim he has used to justify his illegal invasion.
Ukrainian government building in West Ukraine after Maidan.
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Ukraine has worked for years through legislation and military restructuring to contain a fringe far-right movement whose members proudly wear symbols steeped in Nazi history and espouse views hostile to leftists, L.G.B.T.Q. movements and ethnic minorities.
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A state sponsored and official commemoration of Ukraine's SS veterans. The emblem of the SS Galizen; can't get any more Nazi than the Schutzstaffel.
Russian soldiers in Ukraine have also been seen wearing Nazi-style patches, underscoring how complicated interpreting these symbols can be in a region steeped in Soviet and German history.
These same apologists for unironic UkroNazis claim Z patches, which organically became a popular symbol with the Russian public after the SMO was launched and is one of the Latin letters used on tanks/trucks/planes to identify army groups, is the exact same as the NSDAP Hakenkreuz, so opinion absolutely disregarded,.

Lying liars of the Ukraine, case #1,523,110

Yesterday's footage of "fighting in the streets of Novaya Tavolzhanka was filmed in advance by the enemy and passed of as a resident's video upload to social media.

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The staged battle was filmed in Chernobyl on Polupanov Street-yes, that Chernobyl, the one that glows.

An address marker with the number 23 can even be seen on one of the houses in the images and video. Coordinates: 51.272746, 30.218294.
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This manufactured peremoga is getting boring.

link
 
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Two more weeks One day

Edit: Just learned that the Russian town of Readovka in Belgorod oblast was invaded by the totes legit Russia Legionaries! It's over for Russia!

View attachment 5149647

Oh no Russkisisters, wat do? Maybe Mayor Sasha Kotsnews should ask General War Gonzo for assistance?

Link to this stunning exposé

:story:
So let me get this strait, after two failed attempts to penetrate these Russian borders towns including some looting and shelling they expected these local Russians to support these larpers pretending to be a current year version of Andrey Vlasov? What kind of shit did those Britbongs and americans intelligence and advisors had to smoke to think this would work?
 
So let me get this strait, after two failed attempts to penetrate these Russian borders towns including some looting and shelling they expected these local Russians to support these larpers pretending to be a current year version of Andrey Vlasov? What kind of shit did those Britbongs and americans intelligence and advisors had to smoke to think this would work?
I mean to be fair, Vlasov was really inneffective and was only useful when Germany was needing manpower only for him to defect and attempt to escape to the west which failed consequently resulting in him being hung for treason against the Soviets.
 
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So let me get this strait, after two failed attempts to penetrate these Russian borders towns including some looting and shelling they expected these local Russians to support these larpers pretending to be a current year version of Andrey Vlasov? What kind of shit did those Britbongs and americans intelligence and advisors had to smoke to think this would work?
Don't forget their idea of "liberation" apparently also includes liberating Russian civilians from life itself.

Yet their NATO handlers act surprised no one is joining this totally not glow op against their homeland. Imagine facing the choice of being killed by the Russian Legion of Glowniggers or fighting for Russia. Which would you choose?
 
What kind of shit did those Britbongs and americans intelligence and advisors had to smoke to think this would work?

Stuff which was soaked in some special brand paint thinner if they think that shit actually still works, to actually have people turn against their home government, it requires some things to actually be true before that can happen, like said people thinking the people coming into their land are actual liberators and not just murderers, or that they've already had past grievances and feel that now they can seize the moment to hopefully rectify past grievances, neither of which are true in the Belgorod region.

Also, YouTube please stop recommending me Lockheed-Martin fanboy propaganda videos, I want to preserve my current level of brain cells. (look up 'I love Lockheed Martin', I won't post it here to save you all from the cringe in the comments)
 
Hm, maybe this is a glowop to weaken Russia and import more jewish oligarchs and get all the poor azovnazis killed off in the same go, then import more jews to the now juden reign frei Ukraine?

Nah, Biden's bunch is too retarded for that.
 
What kind of shit did those Britbongs and americans intelligence and advisors had to smoke to think this would work?
Wouldn't be surprised if the reasong was something like: "Ruskies are Orcs, and orcs like to pillage, raid and explode things, so maybe if we raid and shell their towns they will want to join in on 'the fun'. Fantastic idea Madame general!"
 
Russia used the abandoned Russian Legion (or whatever they call themselves) MRAPs as target practice for their Lancets, probing to find the weakest point to exploit.

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It's not just a L for Ukraine but the US and our absolutely retarded system of military procurement.
Link
Shouldn't be too hard to find a weakness in them, they were built to face IED's, not actual anti-tank weapons, so most of the armour is dedicated to protecting the occupants from that, so I imagin once you get above the wheels knocking one out with an RPG is fairly easy.
 
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They think destabilizing Russia and turning into 40-50 Bantustans will keep Russia from ever regaining power.
So how does that work when say half of those bantustans will have nukes? specially considering they are very likely to become dictatorships like north korea.
NY Times is troubled by those zany Ukes and their love of Yahtzee symbolism.
I been arguing with libfags for years that had nazis done a deal with poland and invaded the ussr instead then the whole west would have helped the nazis and looked the other way about the whole death camps thing because "its no convenient"

Libfags forget that not even 20 years before their nations sent a military expedition to topple the ussr and failed, communism was still a bigger concern than nazis att and they really hated having to help the commies just to defeat the nazis
What you describe has been US strategy in the former Soviet bloc countries for many years.
What I described is what yanks did in germany in japan, the other strategy will only lead to another putin in the future
The staged battle was filmed in Chernobyl on Polupanov Street-yes, that Chernobyl, the one that glows.
Why are all the houses nice and the grass trimmed? are they reclaiming chernobyl?
 
So how does that work when say half of those bantustans will have nukes? specially considering they are very likely to become dictatorships like north korea.
They're going heckin denuclearize Russia first......after they take back Crimea.......and after Putin gets deposed (because a fucking coup won't be more dangerous)...

(No.....seriously.....they think this is a valid plan)
 
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