- Joined
- Aug 21, 2018
I think diplomacy needs more trolling and that the dog is probably a good girl.
Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion
- Thread starter Bohdan Khmelnytsky
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2020
I think European politicians thought Russia could become a normal country if she was economically integrated with Europe. They didn't consider that what benefits the Russian state, the Russian population, and the Russian elites respectively does not necessarily overlap. So the Russians got all the trade deals they wanted, entire weapons factories built by European corporations, got a chair at any round table.
Russia had substantial soft power pre-2008, even pre-2014; people loved Russian culture and wanted more, and the ugly side of Russia was mostly hidden or chalked up to transition pains. Reconciliation with the victims of Soviet Imperialism would have been a difficult and painful process, showing humility, admitting mistakes. Russia could have done what Germany did after WW II and as a result become a pillar of Europe.
The issue is that the siloviki, the people who rule Russia and set political goals, are delusional paranoiacs who imo truly believe that the US controls every country it cooperates with, that its government issues orders that are slavishly obeyed. They think that to Americans, peace is merely warfare against Russia by other means. Likely because their own political culture is derived from gay rape prison machismo with strict hierarchies (which shows in their internal and external political interactions, some of which other people described here before) and does in fact function that way. Siloviki genuinely think a US Empire is subjugating European countries with the end goal of making Russia into another petukh, so going down a path of reconciliation and cooperation would accomplish nothing but bending over and spreading their cheeks (to use their own flavour of metaphor).
So it seems much better to be hated (but feared!) by everyone and have a boot on the neck of as many peoples and people as possible, making life miserable for everyone (including Russian citizens!), because how better to signal strength?
They see the fall of the Soviet Union as the unjust loss of their colonial empire (and their fearful reputation) and unlike western colonial powers, they want those now independent countries back inside Russian borders. I believe Putin personally also wants to restore a Russian Empire consisting of, at a minimum, Mother Russia, White Russia, and Little Russia, during his life time in order to be immortalized as one of the greatest Russians in history.
That perspective is how a defensive alliance like NATO can be perceived as an "aggressor" by merely adding countries to a list of places that will be effectively defended against foreign invasion.
Another angle is that Russia is ruled by a kleptocratic elite that generates wealth by selling natural resources or stealing government funds, and those positions are currently handed out by Putin as a feudal lord would fiefs. The problem with such a system is that it promotes personal loyalty to a superior and willingness to engage in corruption over competence and honesty to an extreme degree. Raising up competent underlings creates competition. Why take that risk? And in modern Russia, this type of relationship stretches from the very top to the very bottom of society. These people's wealth (and health) would also be threatened by the development of a broader middle class or independent entrepreneurs, because those would demand transparency, and ultimately participatory government, and they would eventually have the economic power, one independent from Putin's good will, to back up those demands.
How is this system a problem for Putin? Such a society cannot compete economically or militarily with any other power, be it the US, EU, or China. Actually forget about competing with great powers, the mighty Russian army was fought to a standstill by the poorest and most corrupt country in Europe and suffered stupendous losses, even before Western aid arrived in large quantities.
Yet another way to frame the conflict could be as one between "law and order" according to the rules set by the established powers, who are primarily interested in stability and enforce negotiation as a tool of conflict resolution, and "newcomer" countries whose governments feel like history has wronged them in some way (China, Russia) and they want to rectify that by aggressively expanding through any means necessary, including the risk of open warfare.
Russia had substantial soft power pre-2008, even pre-2014; people loved Russian culture and wanted more, and the ugly side of Russia was mostly hidden or chalked up to transition pains. Reconciliation with the victims of Soviet Imperialism would have been a difficult and painful process, showing humility, admitting mistakes. Russia could have done what Germany did after WW II and as a result become a pillar of Europe.
The issue is that the siloviki, the people who rule Russia and set political goals, are delusional paranoiacs who imo truly believe that the US controls every country it cooperates with, that its government issues orders that are slavishly obeyed. They think that to Americans, peace is merely warfare against Russia by other means. Likely because their own political culture is derived from gay rape prison machismo with strict hierarchies (which shows in their internal and external political interactions, some of which other people described here before) and does in fact function that way. Siloviki genuinely think a US Empire is subjugating European countries with the end goal of making Russia into another petukh, so going down a path of reconciliation and cooperation would accomplish nothing but bending over and spreading their cheeks (to use their own flavour of metaphor).
So it seems much better to be hated (but feared!) by everyone and have a boot on the neck of as many peoples and people as possible, making life miserable for everyone (including Russian citizens!), because how better to signal strength?
They see the fall of the Soviet Union as the unjust loss of their colonial empire (and their fearful reputation) and unlike western colonial powers, they want those now independent countries back inside Russian borders. I believe Putin personally also wants to restore a Russian Empire consisting of, at a minimum, Mother Russia, White Russia, and Little Russia, during his life time in order to be immortalized as one of the greatest Russians in history.
That perspective is how a defensive alliance like NATO can be perceived as an "aggressor" by merely adding countries to a list of places that will be effectively defended against foreign invasion.
Another angle is that Russia is ruled by a kleptocratic elite that generates wealth by selling natural resources or stealing government funds, and those positions are currently handed out by Putin as a feudal lord would fiefs. The problem with such a system is that it promotes personal loyalty to a superior and willingness to engage in corruption over competence and honesty to an extreme degree. Raising up competent underlings creates competition. Why take that risk? And in modern Russia, this type of relationship stretches from the very top to the very bottom of society. These people's wealth (and health) would also be threatened by the development of a broader middle class or independent entrepreneurs, because those would demand transparency, and ultimately participatory government, and they would eventually have the economic power, one independent from Putin's good will, to back up those demands.
How is this system a problem for Putin? Such a society cannot compete economically or militarily with any other power, be it the US, EU, or China. Actually forget about competing with great powers, the mighty Russian army was fought to a standstill by the poorest and most corrupt country in Europe and suffered stupendous losses, even before Western aid arrived in large quantities.
Yet another way to frame the conflict could be as one between "law and order" according to the rules set by the established powers, who are primarily interested in stability and enforce negotiation as a tool of conflict resolution, and "newcomer" countries whose governments feel like history has wronged them in some way (China, Russia) and they want to rectify that by aggressively expanding through any means necessary, including the risk of open warfare.
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2020
Well Putin agrees because he did this AGAIN to the Japs with a different dog:
That dog was definitely trained to bark like that, and you can see the joy on Putin's face at making them feel uncomfortable. I can't lie this was an epic doge troll lol. wow
Falcos_Commisar
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- May 18, 2020
Those tanks and IFVs are within the range of Russian artillery and Russian troops walked right up and filed the pileup.
Those aren't getting recovered anytime soon.
Ukraine is having some success with confirmed advances up to 1.4 kilometers in some places and allegedly breaching the first set of defensive lines in others.
A rumor puts Ukrainian troops at a town halfway to Melitopol as of yesterday.
Not At All A Lizard
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2022
Definitely some progress in the south, but pretty hard to say still. The russians seem to have a lot of defensive lines to fall back to. As usual, it really depends on the actual losses on both sides, of which we really have no idea.
Noteworthy to me is that the ukes are reported to have blown up a railway bridge near Melitopol, which would effectively cut off rail traffic between Crimea and the mainland (the only other route would be through Kherson). May prove significant if true.
Noteworthy to me is that the ukes are reported to have blown up a railway bridge near Melitopol, which would effectively cut off rail traffic between Crimea and the mainland (the only other route would be through Kherson). May prove significant if true.
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2019
Why are they so close together and facing different directions? Far from an expert, but I thought there was supposed to be more space between armored units. Also, if taking fire from a close treeline, I'd figure you'd want your weak spot facing away from it (and not drive in front of the Bradly providing cover).
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2019
Hit the nail on the head there. There's way too many narrow-minded Russians who thinks that the larger world works the same way their authoritarian shithole does. Like how subjects of Russian Federation were supposed to have a lot of freedom to govern like states do in US (for the time being), but in practice that autonomy is non-existent, and no one seems to mind nor understands why that's a problem. Read up on Sergei Furgal for a reference.
Too many vatniks who believes that the West was out to get them. Even though militarily that would've meant mutually assured destruction, and economically... well, I was told that Russian economy was strong and independent and didn't need no stinkin' West, so the hypothetical economic blockade by NATO countries wouldn't do anything?
I dunno why it was obvious to me that the West would've been content just trading and tolerating each other for the foreseeable future, but that's maybe because I wasn't gobbling up Putin's schizoid warmongering propaganda and actually spent well over a decade interacting with people from all over the West over mutual interests, to the point of learning English language just from that.
Dumb fucking retard ziggers ruined everything.
That tangent aside, I'll have to admit it stung seeing Western equipment damaged in the action, but that was to be expected. I was never under the illusion that it's indestructible, and knew for a fact it wouldn't be as effective outside of NATO's military doctrine, which puts the emphasis on air superiority.
Even the strongest sword would dull and chip in battle, one of the reasons why Armata will never see combat, so it could retain its propaganda value as a mighty wunderwaffe - it's easy to remain undefeated when you don't fight, for the sword to retain sharpness while it's safely stored away.
Losses are inevitable in conventional warfare, especially in the offensive action. It was true for Russians, it remains true for Ukrainians. Of course the former would grasp for a propaganda win over some wrecked Bradley, omitting the fact that the entire war was a complete failure thus far, with it being highly unlikely that any of the original strategic goals would be attained anytime soon if ever.
Ziggers keep coping while their men and boys continue to pointlessly die.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2021
A Russian SAM Tor gets directly hit, taking nearly all of its crew with it, leaving one sole survivor raging worse than his countrymen on a CS:GO server:
Translated by someone on Reddit.
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2019
You can tell it's from reddit by the way he's too pussy to spell bitch and faggot properly. Fucking redditors, man.
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2019
Par for the course, really, that's how this bydlo usually talks even among their family and friends. Notice how it's always about fucking someone in the mouth or ass and faggots.
Anyway, he's going to join his comrades in Hell eventually.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2021
In the English-speaking world, the likes of Mike Tyson left us agasp when he promised to make his opponent his girlfriend and fucking shit talkers until they loved him back. Turns out that's normal currency in Russian banter.
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2019
Russian Orthodox Church claims that pacifism is incompatible with orthodox teachings, supporting the state in prosecuting a priest over his speech in opposition to the war: https://www.rbc.ru/politics/11/06/2023/6485ba979a794774cd9aa749
It's hard to express just how disgusted I am by these "people".
It's hard to express just how disgusted I am by these "people".
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2023
As others have mentioned, this is the result of several factors that took place over a period of time. They weren't maneuvering that closely together as a whole, and as you point out, they're facing different directions.
As you can see they are encountering mines. That forces a "don't blaze a trail" approach, where you want to stay in the tracks of the vehicle in front of you.
The mine strikes are causing mobility kills which means you need to get to the crew. Also where there are anti-vehicle mines there are possibly also anti-personnel mines.
That means you want to pull up close with a vehicle so you don't have dudes running across a minefield. You get in right next to them, typically on the "cold" side (the side further away from enemy fire) and crossload sensitive items over to the recovery vehicle.
As you said, ideally you're not driving in front of your own gunfire. But I think that vehicle providing the POV footage might have been a mobility kill, and those guys driving in front are egressing the area but they've decided to follow in that set of tracks in front of the Bradley.
Not an ideal situation by any means, but probably less outrageous than people are making it out to be.
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2017
Wow, that's a leap even for the Moscow Church. Pretty sure even the most "out there" protestant denominations accept Augustine's teachings as doctrinal. Christianity and its relationship to War has been established doctrine for almost 2,000 years. War is a facet of living in a fallen world. The church must on principle be opposed to war. Yet ready to fight if there is no other choice. Such as if the Church itself is assailed by the infidel and only war may preserve the faith.
Pacifism on its face however is an aspiration to the divine ideal. Quite a few monks and saints swore themselves to non violence like Justin the Martyr. The idea that a Patriarchate would say Pacifism itself is incompatible with Christianity is borderline heresy. In fact War has been the incompatible state that the Christian church has had to spend a great deal of time parsing out and justifying.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
A smaller dam destroyed to delay Ukrainians.
https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/11-june-russian-army-have-blown-up-the-dam-at-mokri-yaly
archive
https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/11-june-russian-army-have-blown-up-the-dam-at-mokri-yaly
archive
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2017
68th Seperate Brigade claims to have captured Blahodatne. That's the village just west of Soledar if people remembered, and one of the major captures for Wagner in their Soledar offensive.
Per the war map, the village of Velyka Novo Silka has also been captured, indicating there are two Ukrainian brigades pushing the Russians hard on the Krasna Hora line north of Bakhmut.
Per the war map, the village of Velyka Novo Silka has also been captured, indicating there are two Ukrainian brigades pushing the Russians hard on the Krasna Hora line north of Bakhmut.
This pretty much confirms that the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense claims for capturing Makrivka are true. Incidentally, this road does not lead to Melitipol. It goes to Mariople
Coffee Mugshot
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2023
There are two Blahodatne's, one of them is just south of Velyka Novosilka near Makarivka. The one up west of Soledar looks to still be under Russian control.
https://deepstatemap.live/#12/47.7964/36.8181
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2017
How could the Ukrainian Army do this
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2021
The AFU has reached Urozhaine, southern Donetsk oblast, earlier this evening, according to Russian sources:
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2019
It'll be more that the tracks, I'd be surprised if the final drive and hull wasn't damaged. Either way if they're in control of the ground after the engagement they can recover them, low load them and ship them back to a depot. They could even transport them across the border to a maintenance facility in Poland or Germany.
Western militaries have always organised themselves around having large maintenance units operating close to the battlefield. I've always thought it wouldn't work against a near peer adversary. 1st line maintenance units, will usually be equipped to the same level at the unit they're supporting, so an Armored units workshop unit will be armored as well, but 2nd level maintenance units are just a mess of soft skin trucks and box bodies.
The Germans had the right idea in WWII, recover a damaged vehicle if it can't be repaired with the resources available, then cannibalize it and ship it back to the factory. You see a lot of historians particularly economists claiming that Germany fucked up by not producing enough spare parts where as in reality they just had a very clear picture of how they wanted industry and the front line to tie together.