im 42 years old and my back hurts because i've been working in 5 fahrenheit freezing temperatures in Minnesota construction sites, ok, Im practically on my death bed at the end of my life, so i've seen it all, and when i tell you this you better believe that when you have open and free discussions on the internet new ideas come up like water in a water fountain. So, i tell you what, when you find a website like the kiwi farms which allows for free, open, unmoderated discussions, you better appreciate it and thank the mods like I do, whenever I see a moderator or Just A Butt, I get down on one knee and thank them for their service.