Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

A whole family?! I wish I'd started a collection of war related animal videos, so far I've seen that other polecat video, a beaver, a badger, and an elk (aside from the usual cats and dogs and pigs and the cryptid pigfish).
I have a shitload of wartime wildlife videos & images, but gotta find them amongst over a years' worth of combat footage.

Edit: passengers of IL-22 shot down by Wagner supposedly identified, not confirmed by Russian sources yet (that I've seen).
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Minus the four flight-crew, a Russian battalion lost it's entire command staff; adjutants & XO included. I'm still trying to find out what unit(s) they commanded.
 
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They might have a lot of reserves. But how much of it is usable? They said they didn't have any T-62's or T-55's left and here they are in Ukraine.
Russia has completely or effectively completely on-shore production of 155mm and base model S-300 missiles. Minus optics, they can fully on-shore T-72s. I can only assume they can on-shore ERA given its stuck on everything.

Granted I recall seeing they just had to toss the entire 2022 run of (iirc) 122mm ammunition because it failed quality checks. That might just be scapegoating cope to explain why their dumps kept getting BTFO.


I read that it's been designed with ground attack capability in mind, but hasn't been used that way in practise because of its short range, somewhat poor accuracy and somewhat small warhead for how expensive the missiles are, but Russia also has >6000 of these lying around while everything else is pretty depleted. I don't have knowledge of those things and am only repeating what I read.
tl;dr:
You're mostly correct. USSR developed nuke-tipped versions of the missiles it shoots so S-300s mobile launchers could act as tactical nuke launchers in a pinch. The ground attack capabilities were not great, but accurate enough for nuclear weapons.

Miiiiiiiiilsperg time
The S-300 shoots the 5V55* family of missles (as well as others). Remember the S-300 was conceived in the late 60s (aka Vietnam) and produced in 1975 - some say rushed to completion because of the F-14, F-15, and F-16. It was intended for Anti-Air but remember during the cold war guided missile launchers were rare. If you could bring ground-attack missiles plus anti-air in the same system it'd change the battlefield. The warhead wasn't anything to write home about, but the ability to even inaccurately bombard something 50-90KM away would be a big psychological boost, and would freak out NATO (the USSR having not learned the lesson of "if we have something shitty and juke stats/capabilities to talk it up, in 10 years NATO will have something that will beat our imaginary, perfect operating conditions propaganda capabilities and then we are in deep shit).

Anyway, using this philosophy and general cold war doctrines, they did two things with the 5V55 & S-300 systems:
First, they developed a naval version, the S-300F/SA-N-6. They were listed as Anti-Air due to treaties but included ability to easily reconfigure the system into anti-shipping missles by locking onto surface targets (There is some sperg about how the system integrates with the ship's RADAR I'll skip). The other was to develop a nuke-tipped 5V55, to let you launch tacnuke strikes from your S-300 systems.

Anyway, good ideas on paper, but then you add in Russian quality engineering (Is launching missile roughly in direction we point it. Huge success for rodina!) and the fact the system was introduced in 1975; there have been updates, you can only take increase precision of systems that old so far.
Then also remember that the payload the ground-attack S-300 was supposed to be delivering was Tac-nukes. You don't need precision accuracy with nukes - close enough is close enough.

Basically the S-300 launching a 5v55* in ground attack mode is a good enough (if expensive) low-yield cruise missile.... for 1975. Its a massive embarrassment to be using it in 2023.

Russia is supposedly using them for terror attacks on civilians because they started the war with 8000, they are cheaper than an AIM-120, and can saturate Ukrainian Airdefense to the point Ukrainian missile-based airdefense largely ignores them by necessity - they need to wait to hit something bigger and more accurate.
 
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Did they think it was one of Prigozhin's catering halls?

Then also remember that the payload the ground-attack S-300 was supposed to be delivering was Tac-nukes. You don't need precision accuracy with nukes - close enough is close enough. en also remember that the payload the ground-attack S-300 was supposed to be delivering was Tac-nukes. You don't need precision accuracy with nukes - close enough is close enough.
Doesn't the S-300 have a 50-90km range? Who the fuck are they going to find willing to light off a nuke 50km from where they are standing, while still being sober enought to push the button? Why not just give them a thermonuclear hand grenade to throw?
 
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Doesn't the S-300 have a 50-90km range? Who the fuck are they going to find willing to light off a nuke 50km from where they are standing, while still being sober enought to push the button? Why not just give them a thermonuclear hand grenade to throw?

There have been improvements to the S-300. The 1975 system had a 60KM range if I remember right, recent upgrades have brought it, in realistic scenarios, to 90KM but you should only count on about 70KM. The S-300 system, in theory, can reach out and touch targets up to 120KM as it can launch S-400 missiles (forget the designation) but at that point you're going to be hitting limits of the RADAR & Command.

That is also intercept range. If you don't need your missile to climb to 20,000ft you can juice some extra range by using that fuel to go horizontal instead of vertical.

Also Tacnukes are usually very clean; there's not space for a lot of payload and you are probably using them on areas you will want to send troops through, so you are going to uses a 2-stage fusion weapon set to near 100% yeild. All the radioactive material will get broken down to stable isotopes with all those neutrons.

Also your launcher needs to be there, the command module can be a few more KM away.

Or tl;dr:
Where will you find them? Russia.
 
Doesn't the S-300 have a 50-90km range? Who the fuck are they going to find willing to light off a nuke 50km from where they are standing, while still being sober enought to push the button? Why not just give them a thermonuclear hand grenade to throw?
Well during the Cold War the US had these:

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Fires a small tactical nuke with a range of about 2km.
 
Its pretty senseless slaughter, especially when we consider that Terror Bombing has NEVER worked, ever. The US tried it against North Vietnam, the Russians tried it against the Mujahadeen, the Germans tried it against the British, hell the Americans and the British tried it against the Germans too.

All it does is harden resolve. The big issue for generating war fatigue in a population has always been them feeling uninvested in a conflict that is costing them sons and national treasure. When that war blows up your downtown market square, suddenly you don't really care how much tax money you are spending to kill the bastards lobbing those bombs, and you will probably demand to know why your youngest son hasn't joined their brothers on the front line yet.

Well during the Cold War the US had these:

View attachment 5181739View attachment 5181740View attachment 5181741

Fires a small tactical nuke with a range of about 2km.
In defense of those things, they were given to front line soldiers in West Germany. These were the tripwire units that were there to literally die for the flag and justify intervention. Strategic Planners assumed that if they were going to die anyway, they may as well allow them to go out in style.
 
Tucker Carlson put out a new video largely on this war. It's not worth archiving:

Key points:
  • We (the USA) are waging a war against Russia.
  • He talks as though the war is entirely America's doing. He says many innocent young people have been killed, so why do we do it?
  • Wild conspiracies about why. Biolabs, Biden ties to Ukraine, war means power for demagogues, etc.
  • Zelenskyy cancelling the next election because it's wartime (and because much of the country is occupied) proves this war isn't really about democracy. He's also seizing churches, arresting priests, disappearing opponents, and so on.
  • Poor Gonzalo Lira is indefinitely in prison (jail?) simply for writing about the government in unflattering ways, and Biden isn't helping. Yes, Tucker really name-dropped Coach Red Pill.
Perhaps at least at Fox he had fact checkers. Not good ones of course (he cited the obviously doctored leaked photo), but he's gone even more off the rails since leaving.

Its pretty senseless slaughter, especially when we consider that Terror Bombing has NEVER worked, ever.
Perun has a whole video on the topic of strategic bombing (from December):
 
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Introducing the newest iteration of Russian drone countermeasures, a Cope-Kennel; meticulously designed by the Traktorno-fermerskiyzavod №11 & heroically built by crippled soldiers before their return to the front.
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That looks like a death trap. Does the gun just shoot though the chainlink? How do you get out if something happens like a mine?
I would like a very autistic report on the effectiveness of cope cages.
Why be autistic? This might stop an off the shelf kamikaze drone that consists of some grenades slapped onto a Chinese quad copter, but it won't do anything actual military equipment.

Worse though is this greatly increases the profile of the vehicle. The entire premise of the BMP is its LOW PROFILE. Might as well paint the damn thing red and slap a black bullseye on the part of its armor that is weakest.
 
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Its pretty senseless slaughter, especially when we consider that Terror Bombing has NEVER worked, ever.
Its has worked a couple times, with a huge fucking asterisk:
Its never gotten a population to capitulate, but it has either sped up the collapse of a wartime economy or affected the tactical situation.

The few times it has "worked" were
US firebombing Japan. The leveling of Tokyo & other cities with incendiaries, making the elites see and feel the war in their backyards, played a part in the emperor's decision to surrender.

Israel bombing Syria in the 6-days war. The bombing of Damascus didn't accomplish much strategically but caused Syria to freak out effectively pull back its elited and armored divisions to deploy around the capital. Though its difficult to call one day with a handful of missions a terror bombing campaign, it was done by Jews.

Spain(Germany) bombing Spain. The inability of the Commies to match/counter Franco's german-supplied airpower sped up the disintegration of the commies and made the war less attractive to foreign volunteers - its one thing to die in glorious combat against the fascists its another to die pointlessly against a weapon you cannot stop. It made the complete cluster fuck that was commie command apparent, destroyed morale and caused desertions. It definitely didn't do Franco any favors with the civilian population afterwards though.

You can make an argument for Desert Storm. But that wasn't intended to break the population so much as it was to hit mostly SAM/AA sites in the city and it disrupted Iraqi command.

Japan in the Phillipines, big asterisk there. They never did the big strategic bombing we usually think of, but the behavior of bombers IN COMBINATION with the gives zero fucks actions of the ground commanders got the US/Phillipines to do their fighting outside of the urban centers. There was an active, armed resistance to the level that it was able to put together fieldable units when the US returned, so you can question how successful it really was.

The US didn't terror bomb NV - though its portrayed that way - as bombing civilians was actively avoided. They bombed every economic target possible, many of them less valuable than the bomb that did them in. The issue was North Vietnam wasn't running their own war economy they were being externally supplied and Kennedy/LBJ/Nixon were too pussy to level the harbors.
They did terror bomb the shit out out da Natzis though. This did minimal economic damage but did fuck with German logistics.

Anyway, indiscriminate bombing is a shit tactic with usually shit results in the opposite effect, but everyone does it any way.

All it does is harden resolve. The big issue for generating war fatigue in a population has always been them feeling uninvested in a conflict that is costing them sons and national treasure. When that war blows up your downtown market square, suddenly you don't really care how much tax money you are spending to kill the bastards lobbing those bombs, and you will probably demand to know why your youngest son hasn't joined their brothers on the front line yet.
Pretty much exactly this. If they didn't think you were there to kill them before, they do now.
But Slavs gonna Slav.

He talks as though the war is entirely our doing. He says many innocent young people have been killed, so why do we do it?
"Its a complete travesty that US picked up Russian troops inside russia, gave them orders to invade, and then dropped them off inside Ukraine. How can Biden keep getting away with this"

Introducing the newest iteration of Russian drone countermeasures, a Cope-Kennel; meticulously designed by the Traktorno-fermerskiyzavod №11 & heroically built by crippled soldiers before their return to the front.
That looks like a death trap. Does the gun just shoot though the chainlink? How do you get out if something happens like a mine?
I would like a very autistic report on the effectiveness of cope cages.
Wouldn't a suicide drone still be able to fuck up the vehicle by slamming into the sides or front/back?

@mindlessobserver has it right: That is going to stop a Alibaba quadcopter that has some grenades strapped to it, and nothing else.

Depending where its operating I'll give it upto a 4/7. @mindlessobserver points out correctly that it almost doubles the height of the vehicle. An alert AT team or tank gunner is going spot you that much easier and won't even need to see you to get a bead on you. Its going to make droning you harder - though they could just fly under the vehicle and explode there, or take out the treads. Its harder, and you're more likely to see the drone coming.
But if you are cruising behind the front, or operating in areas that are cleared of UKA ground troops and drones are your main threat, it'll stop the hilarious open-hatch videos we've been seeing now that the weather's warmed up.

Two Major issue's I'd take is I don't see a door uptop. You can presumably use the loading doors enter/exit the vehicle, but good luck bailing out of a burning BMP through the fueltank.
Second, related issue: I'm assuming the 360 protection is to allow you to drive around with your hatches open for cooling and visibility, and prevent previously mentioned issue where the yooks fly a drone into said hatches. But while they have top high enough to prevent lethal shrapnel while the hatches are open, the drivers forward screen is too close. You could fly your drone head on into the vehicle and kill or maim the driver.

To answer @Kendall Motor Oil 's question: That gun is going to fuck the ever loving shit out of that chainlink copecage like it doesn't even exist. There had better not be any open hatches or dismounted infantry around when they start shooting or they are going to get shards of steel shrapnel embedded in them when that chainlink gets obliterated.
 
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Zelenskyy cancelling the next election because it's wartime (and because much of the country is occupied) proves this war isn't really about democracy.
That's such an idiotic Reddit-tier take. During WW2 elections were suspended in the UK, because we had more important shit going on with the war and were facing a potential invasion. Ukraine has actually been invaded, it is fighting for its survival. People need to be dedicated to the fight, to the war economy, to logistics, to rebuilding and rescue.

I don't think you need to be particularly smart to understand that stability in the chain of command is essential for maintaining military effectiveness. Not to mention, how the fuck can you even conduct national elections when a huge chunk of your country is under enemy occupation and cities are being bombed daily? Any results would be of dubious legitimacy.

Tucker is one of those people who would say "haha, you got lost in the jungle and had to eat meat to survive, fake vegetarian REKT!" Such asinine thinking.
 
Tucker Carlson put out a new video largely on this war. It's not worth archiving
Reminder that Tucker also lied about MAGA, Trump, elections and more in his private messages. Might be tempting to suggest he is getting money from Russia, but I think he just might be a completely amoral power seeking dude, who will sell you whatever snakeoil you most desire, as long as he can make it credible enough. He just doesn't care, there are no repercussions. What's the US supposed to do? Or Ukraine. Sue him? He has 1A protections. He is not directly defaming anyone, he's just purposefully partially covering the events in a way that makes them completely lean in one direction.
It is kinda tragic seeing him do this cynical dance. But I assure you people love him and love what he's doing. We live in a sea of complete idiots and rudimentary gruggs that refuse to see beyond simplified memes.
 
Spain(Germany) bombing Spain. The inability of the Commies to match/counter Franco's german-supplied airpower sped up the disintegration of the commies and made the war less attractive to foreign volunteers - its one thing to die in glorious combat against the fascists its another to die pointlessly against a weapon you cannot stop. It made the complete cluster fuck that was commie command apparent, destroyed morale and caused desertions. It definitely didn't do Franco any favors with the civilian population afterwards though.
francos army and the german and italian forces under his command were not interested in bombing the population into submission
their goal with the bombing was to subdue, neutralize and destroy enemy armed forces (spanish republican and basque nationalist) as part of a larger offensive of nationalist troops in the area

important parts:

The vital industries and transportation centres that would be targeted for shutdown were valid military targets. It could be claimed civilians were not to be targeted directly, but the breakdown of production would affect their morale and will to fight. German legal scholars of the 1930s carefully worked out guidelines for what type of bombing was permissible under international law. While direct attacks against civilians were ruled out as "terror bombing", the concept of attacking vital war industries-and probable heavy civilian casualties and breakdown of civilian morale-was ruled as acceptable.

General Walther Wever compiled a doctrine known as The Conduct of the Aerial War in 1935. In this document, which the Luftwaffe adopted, the Luftwaffe rejected Giulio Douhet's theory of terror bombing. Terror bombing was deemed to be "counter-productive", increasing rather than destroying the enemy's will to resist.[22] Such bombing campaigns were regarded as a diversion from the Luftwaffe's main operations, destruction of the enemy armed forces.[23]

While questions are often raised over the intent of the raid, the diaries of the planner and commander of the mission made public in the 1970s indicate that an attack on Guernica represented part of a wider Nationalist advance in the area and was also designed to support Franco's forces already in place.[25] According to Payne:[26]

Guernica was selected as a target by Lieutenant Colonel Wolfram von Richthofen (younger cousin of the “Red Baron” of World War I), chief of staff of the Condor Legion, for several reasons. It housed several battalions of troops and three arms factories, lay near the front lines, and was connected by means of an adjacent bridge to the road flanking the main Basque defensive position, along which the defenders might have to retreat. Richthofen’s chief goal was to block a main junction near the front to stymie Basque troop movements and permit Mola to break through, encircling the forces farther north... Pinpoint bombing was impossible with the existing technology, and the only way to hit the targets was to carpet much of the area.

Richthofen, understanding the strategic importance of the town in the advance on Bilbao and restricting Republican retreat, ordered an attack against the roads and bridge in the Renteria suburb. Destruction of the bridge was considered the primary objective since the raid was to operate in conjunction with Nationalist troop movements against Republicans around Marquina. Secondary objectives were restriction of Republican traffic/equipment movements and the prevention of bridge repair via the creation of rubble around the bridge.
 
He is not directly defaming anyone, he's just purposefully partially covering the events in a way that makes them completely lean in one direction.
It is kinda tragic seeing him do this cynical dance.
I got unironically MATI when Tucker's "We're back!" video in early May started off with "The media will tell you facts, but they don't give context and tell you the whole story! You're being manipulated!" and then he went and did exactly fucking that in his first major episode regarding the Kakhovka dam and such. He's such a little bitch.
 
For WWII Germany, United States did followed along the RAF in bombing civilian targets but had stopped doing those. As it was extremely unproductive for the USAAF's lives lost and went back to daylight bombing raids against military and industrial targets. The RAF under command of Butcher Harris kept to nighttime bombing and attacking every military and civilian.

Japan, contrary to the revisionists, the United States kept to bombing militaryand industrial targets throughout the war. Japan distributing it's part of industrial production to small mom and pop shops scattered all across their cities including residential areas. Made the necessity of (fire)bombing the elite cities relevant. Moreso once the kamikazes in all of their forms started showing up and getting through to hitting and sinking USN and Allied ships.
 
  • We (the USA) are waging a war against Russia.
  • He talks as though the war is entirely America's doing. He says many innocent young people have been killed, so why do we do it?
  • Wild conspiracies about why. Biolabs, Biden ties to Ukraine, war means power for demagogues, etc.
  • Zelenskyy cancelling the next election because it's wartime (and because much of the country is occupied) proves this war isn't really about democracy. He's also seizing churches, arresting priests, disappearing opponents, and so on.
  • Poor Gonzalo Lira is indefinitely in prison (jail?) simply for writing about the government in unflattering ways, and Biden isn't helping. Yes, Tucker really name-dropped Coach Red Pill.
Putin invading Ukraine to get more votes for next banana republic election and failing miserably is fault of United States.

Tucker is desperate, in my opinion these takes are retarded, Tucker couldn't give a shit if 4 days to Kiev and Ukraine is ruled by Lukashenko yes man and risks to geopolitics, effects on Poland and Baltics.

Did Tucker turn into full Z shill, this is retarded.
 
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