I am not a fan of the US government or how things are going in the US. But these are just facts. The only thing the Russians and the US agreed upon was not violate Ukraine's integrity and the only country violating that is the Russians. There was no formal agreement signed with Russia about about any of this.
I am also not a fan of the direction of the US government in the past years, but again: The US isn't looking to occupy Ukraine. Russia is. If Russia had just wanted to put their guy back on the throne, sign some agreements that lets Russia lease Crimea for 99 years, allows Russian observer Peacekeeps in the the Donbas (and thus keeps Ukraine out of NATO) and then retreat back to the 1992 borders, I could respect that as a might-makes-right geopolitical play. But they are trying to full on take over.
I would have loved for Ukraine to be able to go on their corrupt Slavic lives, remaining independent while baiting Russia, NATO, and the EU into giving it the best deal possible,while telling both Globohomo and Ruskihomo to fuck straight off. Sadly Putin's KGB got outplayed when he tried to embargo Ukraine, and then threw a tempertandrum by invading instead of soft-powering their way back in.
So now its clear: if you share a border with Russia you are either a bootlicker member of the federation, or you are in NATO. Which is why Finland is in and Sweden is joining.
Way to really stop the spread of globohomo there guys. Excellent job.
In the last days of the cold war and the Soviet Union Reagan and Gorbachev had a verbal agreement not to expand past East Germany or something like that. But that was a verbal agreement and verbal agreements are basically useless and it was between the US and Soviet Union. Reagan is dead and so is Gorbachev. The Soviet Union no longer exists. So, if Putin wants to say Russia is still the Soviet Union or something crazy like that then there is no agreement. There never really was. The "agreement" was with a country that no longer exists.
This is one thing the vatniggers love to harp on.
So firstly, as you said, this was a verbal agreement, and it wasn't between Gorby and Reagan, it was Gorby and a US Diplomat.
The agreement was to not establish any permanent US bases in any euro country that didn't already have them.
And if you want to play rules lawyer, as vatniks like to do justifying Russia shitting on the Minsk Treaty which WAS a written & signed agreement, the agreement hasn't been violated. No permanent US bases have been established in countries that didn't have one and that were members of NATO
at the time of the agreement. All the former soviet Satellites joined AFTER.
Also the agreement was the US wouldn't establish new bases - all the new bases are NATO bases not US bases.
The next thing Vatniks love to harp on is they say the this or that forbids permanent bases. No treaty does that.
Despite being signed 10 months after the call, The CFE Treaty
mentions nothing about it just overall troop and armor numbers. Modifications to the CFE, which STILL didn't mention bases, were proposed but were never enacted because modifications required universal ratification, no NATO member signed because Russia still had troops in Moldova and Georgia which were never withdrawn despite promises by Russia to do so.
The
1997 NATO-Russia founding act doesn't explicitly forbid bases, NATO only professed to a commitment that it would establish logistics with national armies instead of basing large combat formations, and simply states that in the security environment of 1997 NATO saw no need to change that. However there was agreement at the time that by 1999 Russia would withdraw troops from Moldova (hasn't happened) and Georgia (more troops than ever, controlling more of the country than ever). So the security situation has definitely changed since the signing.
There are also a lot of diplomatic weasel words like "substantial", "capacity for reinforcement", "adequate infrastructure". Which left the door wide open for permanent bases and deployements - just that NATO would try really hard to not do it, but would respect the CFE terms (which it does.)
NATO reiterates that in the current and foreseeable security environment, the Alliance will carry out its collective defence and other missions by ensuring the necessary interoperability, integration, and capability for reinforcement rather than by additional permanent stationing of substantial combat forces. Accordingly, it will have to rely on adequate infrastructure commensurate with the above tasks. In this context, reinforcement may take place, when necessary, in the event of defence against a threat of aggression and missions in support of peace consistent with the United Nations Charter and the OSCE governing principles, as well as for exercises consistent with the adapted CFE Treaty, the provisions of the Vienna Document 1994 and mutually agreed transparency measures. Russia will exercise similar restraint in its conventional force deployments in Europe.
In any case, Russia suspended the CFE in 2007 and withdrew completely in 2015, despite being allowed to get away with technical breaches regarding the regional concentrations of forces for nearly the entire life of the treaty, meaning the CFE is pretty much gay & worthless.
For other agreements there are a lot of malicious compliance, but its not like Russia doesn't do the exact same shit. And again, Russia is the one trying to annex a neighbor's territory because "muh sphere of influence".
It's actually even more retarded, it was a verbal mention during a treaty negotiation between Secretary of State James Baker and Gorbachev during a larger treaty negotiation. It is not mentioned in the final treaty. It is never brought up again. It was about East Germany.
What does this have to do with American guarantees? It's the most retarded cope possible. Some literal who James Baker isn't mentioned by anyone by name, not even the vatniks from what I have seen made mention that the United States had no intentions eastwards in early 1990 in a broader discussion with Gorbachev about the future of Europe where Gorbachev explicitly stated that he didn't want a Germany outside of European structures. This, at the time, never saw the public, there where no public guarantees, and the Senate of the United States never ratified a treaty stating such. Then Poland said Russia is asshole. Then the Baltics said Russia is asshole. And lo, the Lord said, Russia is asshole. And NATO went east.
+1 on this.
The real point of assurances Gorby wanted was "Oh god Poland super hates us, please don't 'liberate' them and place US troops there or the red army will hang me from a lightpole" - he was making it clear that he accepted that NATO would expand into East Germany after reunionification, was OK with that, but didn't want the US to start placing bases in the chaos of the Warsaw pact and soon to be USSR's collapse. The US had no interest in doing so, and did not do so - only over a decade later did the Baltics get let into NATO where they then demanded NATO bases in their territory because they knew without them, Russia would try with them exactly what they tried/are trying in Ukraine.
In that same vein, America "guaranteed" Ukraine's safety when they gave up nukes, and that's far more substantial than this idiocy about NATO expansion.
Another key point the Vatnigger position conveniently forgets.
Because, as
@mindlessobserver points out, Russia doesn't view Ukraine as a country or Ukrainians as a independent people. Ukraine is a breakaway Russian buffer state, the Ukrainians are exploitable serfs who need to be brought back to heel and their culture destroyed. Ergo, no agreements anyone made with Ukraine matter. Its Russia who matters.
I watched a video of Bradley wrecking a Russian tank in Ukraine earlier. Other than the BM-21 explosion this has to be some of the coolest war porn I have seen in a while. Especially if you like seeing weapon systems get used. That Russian tank gets absolutely destroyed by the TOW from the Bradley.
Excuse me, that video is fake and gay. I have been told by Russian Telegram sources that are 100% independent and not Kremlin controlled that of the 50 bradleys sent to Ukrain 8,000 of them have been destroyed and any remaining are only serving as field hospitals where polish mercenaries run clinics to trannify children in Kyiv gay bars.
I see two furries (a rat and some dude to turns into a flying horse) so X to doubt.
