Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

tfw gay libshit western commies are rooting for fucking Azov tradcon pseudo-nazis while western right-wing wignats are rooting for fucking crypto-stalinists who wanna revive the USSR and their muzzie pawns...

 

[Prester John]

Alexander Vindman supports inviting Ukraine to NATO and he supports giving Ukraine cluster munitions.

I didn't know which of the two threads to post it in, so I flipped a coin.

I'll say that if Ukraine wants to use cluster munitions on Ukraine territory, I don't see why anybody should care.

 

[Green Man]

tfw gay libshit western commies are rooting for fucking Azov tradcon pseudo-nazis while western right-wing wignats are rooting for fucking crypto-stalinists who wanna revive the USSR and their muzzie pawns...

Seriously this fucking war has broken a lot of people and made for some incredibly strange fucking bedfellows. I was a bit taken aback when I found myself agreeing with... fucking Redditors, of all people. That is very rare indeed.

 

[Ghostse]

Alexander Vindman supports inviting Ukraine to NATO and he supports giving Ukraine cluster munitions.

I didn't know which of the two threads to post it in, so I flipped a coin.

I'll say that if Ukraine wants to use cluster munitions on Ukraine territory, I don't see why anybody should care.

I think that a suitable compromise is that we give cluster munitions to ukraine after testing them on Vindman's self-serving ass.

 

[draggs]

Imagine watching even a single video about the war from NAFOfags, NAFO-adjacentfags, that Colonel McGregor fag, that other Colonel Markus Reisner fag, general vatniggers, Glenn Greenwaldites, or whoever the fuck else

Be a real war news connoisseur, get your information solely from reading tweets containing true and honest - and other tweets containing fake and gay - translations of hohol and Ivan telegram posts

 

[Glowie]

I really wish we got to pick our allies.

NAFO is a reddit invention, therefore gay.
Their memes are weak, they allow the biggest retards in and their coordination is one big clusterfuck.

Half of them grift the shit out unsuspecting normie who lack Opsec, thought to use whois.

Every single roundtable or Furry group call like meeting is embarassing and would require healthy amount of alcohol to sit through while trying to listen to a pack degenerates.

What possessed these fucks to come up with roundtable in the first place?

 

[Night Crawler]

I am also not a fan of the direction of the US government in the past years, but again: The US isn't looking to occupy Ukraine. Russia is. If Russia had just wanted to put their guy back on the throne, sign some agreements that lets Russia lease Crimea for 99 years, allows Russian observer Peacekeeps in the the Donbas (and thus keeps Ukraine out of NATO) and then retreat back to the 1992 borders, I could respect that as a might-makes-right geopolitical play. But they are trying to full on take over.

I would have loved for Ukraine to be able to go on their corrupt Slavic lives, remaining independent while baiting Russia, NATO, and the EU into giving it the best deal possible,while telling both Globohomo and Ruskihomo to fuck straight off. Sadly Putin's KGB got outplayed when he tried to embargo Ukraine, and then threw a tempertandrum by invading instead of soft-powering their way back in.

So now its clear: if you share a border with Russia you are either a bootlicker member of the federation, or you are in NATO. Which is why Finland is in and Sweden is joining.

Way to really stop the spread of globohomo there guys. Excellent job.

This is one thing the vatniggers love to harp on.
So firstly, as you said, this was a verbal agreement, and it wasn't between Gorby and Reagan, it was Gorby and a US Diplomat.
The agreement was to not establish any permanent US bases in any euro country that didn't already have them.

And if you want to play rules lawyer, as vatniks like to do justifying Russia shitting on the Minsk Treaty which WAS a written & signed agreement, the agreement hasn't been violated. No permanent US bases have been established in countries that didn't have one and that were members of NATO at the time of the agreement. All the former soviet Satellites joined AFTER.
Also the agreement was the US wouldn't establish new bases - all the new bases are NATO bases not US bases.

The next thing Vatniks love to harp on is they say the this or that forbids permanent bases. No treaty does that.
Despite being signed 10 months after the call, The CFE Treaty mentions nothing about it just overall troop and armor numbers. Modifications to the CFE, which STILL didn't mention bases, were proposed but were never enacted because modifications required universal ratification, no NATO member signed because Russia still had troops in Moldova and Georgia which were never withdrawn despite promises by Russia to do so.

The 1997 NATO-Russia founding act doesn't explicitly forbid bases, NATO only professed to a commitment that it would establish logistics with national armies instead of basing large combat formations, and simply states that in the security environment of 1997 NATO saw no need to change that. However there was agreement at the time that by 1999 Russia would withdraw troops from Moldova (hasn't happened) and Georgia (more troops than ever, controlling more of the country than ever). So the security situation has definitely changed since the signing.
There are also a lot of diplomatic weasel words like "substantial", "capacity for reinforcement", "adequate infrastructure". Which left the door wide open for permanent bases and deployements - just that NATO would try really hard to not do it, but would respect the CFE terms (which it does.)

In any case, Russia suspended the CFE in 2007 and withdrew completely in 2015, despite being allowed to get away with technical breaches regarding the regional concentrations of forces for nearly the entire life of the treaty, meaning the CFE is pretty much gay & worthless.

For other agreements there are a lot of malicious compliance, but its not like Russia doesn't do the exact same shit. And again, Russia is the one trying to annex a neighbor's territory because "muh sphere of influence".

It's been a while since I watched the video explaining what happened. But the whole thing is just vatnigger cope as you said. There is no real agreement. It's just Russia's lame excuse for a land grab attempt.

I watched a video about in the first few weeks of the war because vatniggers kept saying "muh agreements".

Non-black North Americans generally don't have any inferiority complexes (we're pretty great imho) and so have a bit of a blindspot when it comes to perceiving them among other ethnicities/nationalities. It's also culturally common among Americans (and Anglos in general) to rip each other along ethnic/racial lines as a means of integrating and befriending an outgroup. Ukrainians understandably have a bit of an inferiority complex from being a subject people for so long, but nobody actually thinks Slavs are dumber than the average white American on a genetic level. It's just friendly banter that doesn't translate well. You call Americans fat retard half-breed burgers, Americans call you dumb borscht-blooded fags. Everyone kisses.

Russians do have lower average IQ's than Americans do. The average IQ among white Americans is 100 among Russians it's 95. I don't hate Russians or think all slavs are stupid. But seeing those driving videos from Russia will probably make people think they are all idiots. There are sub 100 IQ normies here in the US. This doesn't make them bad people. But this doesn't mean they can't be a problem either.

Basically gonna be the same style of shit we dropped on Saddam, although supposedly thanks to various improvements they have a much lower failure rate, meaning less UXO lying around.

So, the grapefruit or softball shaped/sized ones that explode or can act kind of like mines. I remember they got used on airfields in ODS and sometimes they wouldn't explode. So if a plane hits one it will take the plane out and leave a hole in the runway. If someone tries to move it then it explodes. At least that's how it was explained to me in a video about then years ago.

It's good that they managed to get the failure rate down so there won't be a bunch of them sitting around killing people post war.

 

[WhiteNight]

Ukrainians understandably have a bit of an inferiority complex from being a subject people for so long, but nobody actually thinks Slavs are dumber than the average white American on a genetic level.

Russians do have lower average IQ's than Americans do. The average IQ among white Americans is 100 among Russians it's 95. I don't hate Russians or think all slavs are stupid. But seeing those driving videos from Russia will probably make people think they are all idiots. There are sub 100 IQ normies here in the US. This doesn't make them bad people. But this doesn't mean they can't be a problem either.

Emil Kirkegaard has an analysis of Ukrainian IQ and behavior:

https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2022/03/ukrainians-in-our-countries-what-are-we-getting-what-can-we-expect/

Archive

His conclusion (take it or leave it) is they're a few points lower in average IQ and generally well-behaved. Certainly that's favorable compared to most "refugees" flooding Europe, which make those few points barely worth quibbling over.

I think this image says it all:

https://twitter.com/malmesburyman/status/1508513064764780550

 

[Blatant hypocrite]

What possessed these fucks to come up with roundtable in the first place?

Imagine you're a mediocre streamer. Your fanbase isn't as big as you'd want it to be. You can't talk for very long while keeping it entertaining. So you get all your streamer friends/acquaintances together and hopefully you have enough viewership, while hopefully there's enough of you to avoid dead air.

If you call it a collab, you acknowledge that you're basically a streamer and not a totally serious analyst. So you call it a roundtable.

 

[Glowie]

tfw gay libshit western commies are rooting for fucking Azov tradcon pseudo-nazis while western right-wing wignats are rooting for fucking crypto-stalinists who wanna revive the USSR and their muzzie pawns...

Zelensky being part of DA JOOS is reason enough, this to a /pol/tard even pigfuckers and commies are based

Imagine you're a mediocre streamer. Your fanbase isn't as big as you'd want it to be. You can't talk for very long while keeping it entertaining. So you get all your streamer friends/acquaintances together and hopefully you have enough viewership, while hopefully there's enough of you to avoid dead air.

If you call it a collab, you acknowledge that you're basically a streamer and not a totally serious analyst. So you call it a roundtable.

First episode was titled NAFO founders, was that intentional or is Lazerpig into Reddit fella faggotry?

 

[Ghostse]

It's been a while since I watched the video explaining what happened. But the whole thing is just vatnigger cope as you said. There is no real agreement. It's just Russia's lame excuse for a land grab attempt.

I watched a video about in the first few weeks of the war because vatniggers kept saying "muh agreements".

The best part about "muh agreements" is two fold.
Firstly, there was a treaty negotiation (CFE) going on at that very moment - but Gorby didn't feel a need to have the USSR's diplomats mention bases. Clearly he wasn't worried (and if I recall, the weird way that it was phrased "No new bases except in countries that currently have them" was basically Gorby saying, with weird Russian phrasing, that he/the USSR fully expected the US would be opening new bases in East [soon to be EastERN] Germany to secure it, and the USSR wouldn't view that as an escalation [nor would they view, say, opening a new support base in Italy to get those bases online]. But if the US/NATO started wooing Poland or Hungary and building bases there while the Sovietsphere was in chaos, that was going to be seen as provocation).

Second, if we're treating unsigned agreements as binding law, the security assurances given to Ukraine when they agreed to give up their nukes (and then sell the missile components to Iran after being paid to destroy them) means that the US paratroopers should have been landing in Red Square last March while the Russian armored column got cluster bombed to slag by F-22s.

So either Russia is just throwing a tantrum over meaningless words because another independent country doesn't like them anymore, or they are wantonly provoking WWIII by attacking a US protectorate and that means Putin is unhinged and uncaring about nuclear annihilation as needs to be removed from power.

 

[Odd Opossum]

Somebody who torches their supposed ideals and morals and embraces shit worse than what they have been decrying as the ultimate evil, solely because they are too fucking autistic to accept those on their personal shit-list getting a "win" by opposing said shit, should never be taken seriously again

That's life, most "morals" people have are a way for them to feel self-righteous about their actions and thoughts, it just gets amplified when it comes to politics.

 

[Vince McMahon]

Imagine watching even a single video about the war from NAFOfags, NAFO-adjacentfags, that Colonel McGregor fag, that other Colonel Markus Reisner fag, general vatniggers, Glenn Greenwaldites, or whoever the fuck else

Be a real war news connoisseur, get your information solely from reading tweets containing true and honest - and other tweets containing fake and gay - translations of hohol and Ivan telegram posts

If only you knew the shades, tastes and brands of Tarasfags telegrams and Ivanfags telegrams, all the they/them/xirs dwarf before that.

 

[Hall of Cost Payer]

Russians do have lower average IQ's than Americans do. The average IQ among white Americans is 100 among Russians it's 95

Emil Kierkegaard has an analysis of Ukrainian IQ and behavior:

Stop giving a crap about IQ. IQ has a high correlation to literacy, so just having a higher IQ on a state level = higher literacy level doesn't make anybody less of a nigger.

Chinks had an average IQ of 105 the last time I researched. This doesn't mean they're smart and especially doesn't mean they're smarter than Amerifats or Europoors. It just means that the chinese government spent a lot on teaching them to read and write their propaganda. On the contrary, most analysis shows that chinks aren't as capable of critical thought and being creative than western people.

With Ukraine it's the same. Don't care about IQ. Care about them having Europe culture, while also being trad but being equally or more corrupt than Italy and Romania.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

Ok, one of these guys sounds  very familiar, like I've heard the exact same based-Russia arguments (in fluent English) from someone around here.


I know vatniks aren't exactly great progenitors of original thought, but.....

Odds are one is a CIA-bro too.

 

[Pork Packer]

Imagine watching even a single video about the war from NAFOfags, NAFO-adjacentfags, that Colonel McGregor fag, that other Colonel Markus Reisner fag, general vatniggers, Glenn Greenwaldites, or whoever the fuck else

Be a real war news connoisseur, get your information solely from reading tweets containing true and honest - and other tweets containing fake and gay - translations of hohol and Ivan telegram posts

Whenever I look at the nadir of pro Ukraine/"pro" Ukraine cringe I just take a gander at the latest input from your 2nd/3rd tier professional and paid russia shill to get some perspective as to which side has the largest tism critical mass

This time from a colleague of pepe "literally getting pegged by a miniature khinzel missle right now" escobar, and one I think I have brought up before on this thread, the very literally schizophrenic (and very probably a sex tourist....likely the illegal kind given his obsession with children) declan hayes who despite being palpably bugfuck insane is still on the payroll of a number of russia/syria shill organisations directly funded by the russian state

Open Letter to His Excellency, Volodymyr Zelensky, President of Ukraine

Dear Clown Prince Zelensky

I hope life is going well for you, your wife, your daughter Oleksandra, your son Kyrylo, as well as the two dogs, the cat, the parrot and the guinea pig you keep as pets.

First off, I am glad your Ukrainian fact-checkers (ha ha) confirmed Oleksandra did not call you a Nazi for such a charge against you and your pet pig, mein Führer, even from your own flesh und Blut, would be as unthinkable as suggesting that all those tattooed thugs you employ to strap Untermenshchen to lampposts and loot their churches are anything other than the pride of Lviv.

Speaking of Lviv, I see the Red Cross there are playing with Team Zelensky by strapping Christians to lamposts. As the Red Cross is one of the world’s richest NGOs and as the salaries they pay to their Swiss-based staff are amongst the world’s highest, could you not demand that they top up your Swiss bank account by giving you a greater share of their action not only in Lviv but throughout all of your lovely fatherland?

As an acclaimed and well-endowed (financially at least) actor, I am sure you have seen The Third Man, where Harry Lime steals penicillin from military hospitals in post war Vienna, dilutes it, then sells it on the black market where it injures or kills countless Austrian infants. Could you or your brave Azovs who ran all those money laundering scams from Mariupol not do something similar? I pine that surrogate births have plummeted with the tens of millions who have fled your realm but, because you must still have huge cocaine bills to pay, those who cannot escape your clutches must be made to carry yet more of the burden.

I am assuming, in my innocence of such matters, your cocaine needs are not thrown in as a sweetener with all that Captagon your troops are made devour to fire them up. It did work wonders with NATO’s brave head-hackers in Syria, who could hack heads for days on end without even a toilet break and I am sure it works the same with your Wehrmacht.

I wouldn’t worry too much about your critics as they are just jealous of your Churchillian greatness. He had his Havana cigars and his French cognac. You have your Colombian coke and your plagiarised speeches, for which you have been rightly honoured with the Honorary Diploma of the Cabinet Ministers of Ukraine, the Czech Republic’s Order of the White Lion (LOL), Lithuania’s Order of Vytautas The Great with the Golden Flush Chain, Poland’s Order of the White Eagle, America’s Tipple of Hope and Profile in Courage (LOL) Awards and Britain’s Sir Winston Churchill’s Leadership Award.

Churchill, as your MI5 handlers know, won the 1953 Nobel Prize for Literature “for his mastery of historical and biographical description as well as for brilliant oratory in defending exalted human values”, for his blustery speeches and gassing Iraqi Kurds in other words. And former POTUS Obama won the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize for his “extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples” even though he had done absolutely nothing of relevance up to that point (or, indeed, afterwards) to warrant such a bribe. And, as the International Committee of the Red Cross who are, you will agree, doing such good work putting manners on the Untermenshchen of Lviv, have won it an extraordinary three times, surely you cannot be over-looked for those and other lucrative prizes in this Year of Our Lord (if you’ll excuse that expression) 2023.

As the prizes are worth about 10 million Swedish krona, some $1 million apiece, it goes without saying that there are no worthier candidates than you, your family and your pet pig. Time to call in the Norwegian and Swedish ambassadors and give them a tongue lashing? And, as Norway is awash with cash, thanks in no small part to their help in blowing up the Nord Stream pipeline, they should really contribute a lot more to your retirement fund and that of your family.

Speaking of family, could you not do more to get your daughter, Oleksandra, who will be 19 on July 15th, and Kyrylo, your 10 year-old son, onto some major scam or other? Sweden’s Greta Thunberg was a veteran environmental scammer by the age of 19 and Kyrylo should be the face of Ukrainian innocence that makes millions of little Western boys and girls unlock their piggy banks to fatten up his one, after you take your cut, of course.

How about Kyrylo blaming all the depleted uranium the Anglo-Saxons are saturating Ukraine with on Putin and asking the world’s children to send him money to save him, his big sister and their little pet pig? I hate to harp on about this but you must devise new cash flows for when your earlier scams dry up.

I see, incidentally, in 2020, you ordered your rump Reich to withdraw from the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People and that the Palestinian Authority has not taken a public position on your war with Russia. Is there not some way you and Israel could squeeze a few more shekels out of the Palestinians over that by demanding, for example, that the Russian Orthodox Cathedral in Jerusalem and its vast monastery in Hebron be turned into R&R brothels for the Azov Waffen SS until the Palestinians submit?

I know that Putin apologists, penniless Christians and the like, would argue that such restorative actions would be unjust and they would compare it to the way you persecute Gonzalo Lira, uncooperative Communists and so many other captives who live by your sufferance alone but you should impress on the world that, as holding those prisoners costs money, if those Christians, Communists and sundry other flotsam don’t pony up, darker solutions will have to be considered.

And then there is, as your Defence Ministry has recently declared, that you have made Ukraine and your conscripted lemmings the ideal testing ground for the West’s wonder weapons. Not your fault that the Russians have better weapons and tactics but the point is that NATO should be paying more for the privilege of using your conscripts as cannon fodder. At day’s end, all this is, just as the Mafia’s Godfather says, only business.

But, on that same theme, Don Zelensky, because you are not a wartime consigliere, I respectfully submit that you should keep your childish battle tactics advice to yourself and your coke-snorting buddies. This is not to say you don’t have a role. You do, just as Dennis Hopper had in Apocalypse Now, or Al Pacino did playing Tony Montana in Scarface.

But, truth be told, your critics say you more resemble Bette Davis in Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?, where she plays a thoroughly spiteful Hollywood has been. As you love dressing up in women’s clothes, such a role might better suit you.

Sunset Boulevard might be an even better fit as you could replace Gloria Swanson, who plays Norma Desmond, a faded film star who lives in her own deranged fantasy world, fraudster William Holden, or indeed both but not Erich von Stroheim, who plays Max, the devoted butler who is Desmond’s only link to reality, just as your MI5 and CIA handlers do their best to keep you grounded into some semblance of reality.

Romania gave us Vlad the Impaler but Ukraine has lumbered us with you, Vlad the Imposter. You have done well for a tenth grade, coked up porno actor, who has lost any connection with the real world that the 500,000+ Russian soldiers straining to pounce on you personify. It is time for you to now play another role, the same one forlorn former Venezuelan strongman (ha ha) Juan Guaidó now plays to his High School classmates in Tony Montana’s old stomping ground of sunny Florida.

Take your family, your pet pig, your parrot, your cat and your ill-gotten gains and get out of Ukraine and never return. There is, in Ukraine, an end game approaching, and, as Alec Guinness, playing the role of Prince Faisal, tells Lawrence of Arabia, that is the work of mature adults, not of porno actors like you, your parrot or your pet pig.

And so, as General Allenby tells Lawrence, God Speed, good riddance, go back to your porno acting and, as they say, break a leg or more.

Say what you like about NAFO redditors....atleast they aint this. And believe it or not, this is one of his tamer articles.

 

[East_Clintwood]

I remember they got used on airfields in ODS and sometimes they wouldn't explode. So if a plane hits one it will take the plane out and leave a hole in the runway. If someone tries to move it then it explodes. At least that's how it was explained to me in a video about then years ago.

Not exactly. While cluster bombs were used for runway denial, they're slightly different to the ones we used for anti tank/anti-personnel usage. The ones being sent to Ukraine will be:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-purpose_improved_conventional_munition in either a rocket compatible with HIMARS/M270s, or more likely in 155mm shells compatible with the multiple different NATO standard howitzers they've been getting.

 

[World in Scarlet]

New Perun

 

[mindlessobserver]

Not exactly. While cluster bombs were used for runway denial, they're slightly different to the ones we used for anti tank/anti-personnel usage. The ones being sent to Ukraine will be:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-purpose_improved_conventional_munition in either a rocket compatible with HIMARS/M270s, or more likely in 155mm shells compatible with the multiple different NATO standard howitzers they've been getting.

And they are an absolute god damn nightmare for light infantry cowering in a trench. The only thing that could possibly be even worse for them are the Thermobaric munitions. I'm honestly surprised we've not just bitten the bullet and sent those as well. A single fuel air bomb munition will turn any trench into a grave. I expect those will be next. It seems the Western powers want to boil the frog with the ever escalating level of weapons sent to Ukraine.

Kinda like how Russia boiled the Frog with its ever escalating sovereignty violations of Ukraine.

 

[Uranus Pink]

Regarding the strange bedfellows this war have been making; remember this one key point "the enemy of my enemy is now my friend" is the perversion of the original "the enemy of my enemy is still my enemy." Cause once this war is over or the TPTB decide to send their underlings the new script, those Redditors, Spacebattlers and so on will instantly comply.