US US Politics General - Discussion of President Biden and other politicians

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General Emílio Médici said:
Now they have run dry, and can't produce more because all the factories for this basic stuff is in China. And they can't open new ones because then they would have to hire competent American and Euro blue collar workers who won't settle for working for slave wages on death trap factories like the chinks do.
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The West... actually is ramping up production. Rheinmetall has already doubled their annual shell production, and plans to double it again next year. Poland alone has placed orders equal to several years worth of pre-war production, and these places aren't leaving that money sitting on the table. Hell, if we weren't getting production of vital things restarted we wouldn't have had Uncle Johnny ranting about how fucked up our attempts to get new Stingers made are. Better to get those 70-year-old retirees back in the lines teaching the new blood now instead of later when they're too dead or senile to instruct. Hell, we've had a poster who works in these sorts of factories talk about the military actually stockpiling materials and noting how different the mood is where they work.
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/...all-nets-multi-million-euro-ammunition-order/
https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...put-himars-production-germany-ceo-2023-01-28/
https://apnews.com/article/eu-ukraine-support-ammunition-war-russia-5d9c64af0f46de70674a7254b08272bd

Personally, I love that Reuters article. You've got the CEO of Rheinmetall telling the German government "Fuck you, pay me" in public regarding munitions, which to anyone who has been paying attention to German politics would be simply unconscionable had not a major war special military operation broken out in continental Europe.
 
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Snekposter said:
The West... actually is ramping up production. Rheinmetall has already doubled their annual shell production, and plans to double it again next year. Poland alone has placed orders equal to several years worth of pre-war production, and these places aren't leaving that money sitting on the table. Hell, if we weren't getting production of vital things restarted we wouldn't have had Uncle Johnny ranting about how fucked up our attempts to get new Stingers made are. Better to get those 70-year-old retirees back in the lines teaching the new blood now instead of later when they're too dead or senile to instruct. Hell, we've had a poster who works in these sorts of factories talk about the military actually stockpiling materials and noting how different the mood is where they work.
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/...all-nets-multi-million-euro-ammunition-order/
https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...put-himars-production-germany-ceo-2023-01-28/
https://apnews.com/article/eu-ukraine-support-ammunition-war-russia-5d9c64af0f46de70674a7254b08272bd

Personally, I love that Reuters article. You've got the CEO of Rheinmetall telling the German government "Fuck you, pay me" in public regarding munitions, which to anyone who has been paying attention to German politics would be simply unconscionable had not a major war special military operation broken out in continental Europe.
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One of the big things is that people really don't understand the sheer scale of munitions consumption.

I've heard people say that 4,000 rounds of 155mm should last an entire war for the ENTIRE US military.
 
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Jet Fuel Johnny said:
One of the big things is that people really don't understand the sheer scale of munitions consumption.

I've heard people say that 4,000 rounds of 155mm should last an entire war for the ENTIRE US military.
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A M109 Paladin cranks out 3 a minute at a moderate pace, 6 at rapid fire. That fucker is hand loaded. And they come in batteries. Lunacy.
 
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Jet Fuel Johnny said:
One of the big things is that people really don't understand the sheer scale of munitions consumption.

I've heard people say that 4,000 rounds of 155mm should last an entire war for the ENTIRE US military.
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Oh, I do. I ran some numbers early on in the Ukraine conflict when people were talking about THOUSANDS OF TONS of shells and I was like "So, about a month of usage, then?"
WelperHelper99 said:
A M109 Paladin cranks out 3 a minute at a moderate pace, 6 at rapid fire. That fucker is hand loaded. And they come in batteries. Lunacy.
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3 is sustained pace to help the barrel cool down to avoid wearing it out and give the crew a break. So you've got 3 shots a minute, for what, 4 hours? 3 x 60 x 4 gives you 720 shells from one gun, a battery of SPG's is IIRC 4, so that's 2,880 shells, times about 100 pounds per shell gives you 288,000 pounds, so divide by 2,000 and you get... 144 tons of ammunition expended in one day of fire by one battery. A full month of fire for 30 days is 4,320 tons. For four guns.
 
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General Emílio Médici said:
The west had a chance to actually have a war industry you know. After 9/11 there was a massive move to bring factories up to speed and start pumping out shell and bullets, helmets and armor. But the Bush Administration quietly said "thanks but that won't be needed".

Because the point of the War on Terror wasn't to be a actual war, but a police action. People might have rallied around the flag but the MIC wasn't actually interested in a WW2 style push because that would mean actually winning and then stopping. The idea was to keep up endless Defense contracts going. Instead of a 20 million dollar ammunition factory, they wanted to pay 200 million on developing new tech that would never actually leave prototype stage and then shit out overpriced M4s that are virtually the same design from back when Reagan was in power.

Now they are trying to do this shit again, but with Russia as their boogey man. Except unlike the Taliban or the CIA ISIS or leftovers of Republican Guard in Iraq the Ruskies have a actual industry that Uncle Sam can't just bomb into rubble because Putin has a nuclear insurance. So they though they could just get the hohols to die for them with that old hardware they pump out.

And it failed, spetacularly.

Now they have run dry, and can't produce more because all the factories for this basic stuff is in China. And they can't open new ones because then they would have to hire competent American and Euro blue collar workers who won't settle for working for slave wages on death trap factories like the chinks do.
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M4s are doodoo compared to the M16A4 without that annoying A2 stub on the pistol grip.
 
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The Last Stand said:
I don't get it.
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We have used/given away so much of our typical munitions that we are now sending cluster bombs to Ukraine, not because of anything related to their "effectiveness," but because we no longer have the munition supplies required to send them traditional artillery.

Generally a bad idea to announce in public that you're out of ammo, in the middle of a war where you are playing arms dealer to one side.
 
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Sithis said:
We have used/given away so much of our typical munitions that we are now sending cluster bombs to Ukraine, not because of anything related to their "effectiveness," but because we no longer have the munition supplies required to send them traditional artillery.

Generally a bad idea to announce in public that you're out of ammo, in the middle of a war where you are playing arms dealer to one side.
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As I mentioned in the other thread, this was probably one of those things Joey was briefed on but wasn't supposed to say publicly, but then blurted it out in a Senior Moment.
 
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The Last Stand said:
I don't get it.
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"Hello China, Russia, and all other countries of the world that are intimidated by American military might: We are COMPLETELY out of ammo.

Also, Russia, if you hold out for a little while longer the Ukraine will lose all support from the US simply because we'll be out of shit to give them in our proxy war."
 
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The Last Stand said:
I don't get it.
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In addition to what others have said, cluster bombs are illegal in most of the world (but not the US) because the duds it shoots out, which is inevitable when so many explosives are shot out all at once, they could be lying dormant for years and then some kid picks it up thinking it's a ball and then it blows up. It's not much different than when the US was shipping Depleted Uranium ammo to Ukraine too, so the Russians blew up those depots.
 
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HTTP Error 404 said:
"Hello China, Russia, and all other countries of the world that are intimidated by American military might: We are COMPLETELY out of ammo.

Also, Russia, if you hold out for a little while longer the Ukraine will lose all support from the US simply because we'll be out of shit to give them in our proxy war."
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This is the main takeaway. I don't care about cluster munitions- you're out there to fight and die, shut the fuck up pussy- , it's that we have lost so much of our conventional boom boom rounds, we're now giving out the special shit.
Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
In addition to what others have said, cluster bombs are illegal in most of the world (but not the US) because the duds it shoots out, which is inevitable when so many explosives are shot out all at once, they could be lying dormant for years and then some kid picks it up thinking it's a ball and then it blows up. It's not much different than when the US was shipping Depleted Uranium ammo to Ukraine too, so the Russians blew up those depots.
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Both of those are memes. The dud rate for the DCIPM is very low compared to its counterparts, and DU is as toxic to the water table as tungsten. DU on its own is barely radioactive, hense depleted. Those rules were made by Europeans that lost wars to those weapons.
 
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Drag-on Knight 91873 said:
In addition to what others have said, cluster bombs are illegal in most of the world (but not the US) because the duds it shoots out, which is inevitable when so many explosives are shot out all at once, they could be lying dormant for years and then some kid picks it up thinking it's a ball and then it blows up. It's not much different than when the US was shipping Depleted Uranium ammo to Ukraine too, so the Russians blew up those depots.
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In the eyes of the United States, Russia and Ukraine cluster munitions are legal fair game weapons of war.

When all is said and done I suppose we'll see if the country ends up as worse off as Laos when it comes to unexploded ordinance:
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The fact the leading superpower of the world is already struggling wit ordinance supply for just a proxy war doesn't bode well for any potential conflicts in the upcoming future. China probably loves to see it though without a doubt.
 
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