Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[mindlessobserver]

The problem Russia has is it never actually believed it would find itself in a war where all the bluffs about their weapons systems would actually be called. The fact that the bluff was called by a country at the ass end of Europe that isn't even in NATO just makes it harder for the Vatniks to swallow. It why they say the Kinzals are great success and show expended Patriot Missile Motors on the ground as proof.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

I'm not saying either system is total garbage, but the performance of both was vastly, vastly over hyped to the point Russians believed their own lies and we saw S400 RADARs gettign HARM'd and Pantsirs getting drone'd.

From how I understood it explained by someone who is "in the business", with range comes a loss of fidelity; unless multiple radars are networked together. In the beginning they were coded to disregard low-altitude, low-RCS, low speed contacts to avoid flooding the scopes with flocks of birds, insect swarms, etc. But the Russians lost so many systems early on so they pulled back & dispersed the rest (along with turning them off to avoid HARM), so the S-400 essentially lost it's ability to accurately cover those huge swathes of airspace where drones fly.

Sometime after Kherson was taken, I remember some articles from the Russians, where they were talking about reprogramming their SAMs to identify & target drones (along with HIMARS). But because they're still unable to keep them turned-on & networked with other radar/AA assets, they're still having problems.

 

[AgendaPoster]

This is now making it to the mainstream news:
[Archive]

This seems to be the original source:

Ukrainian Army Land Forces Commander General Oleksandr Syrsky confirmed Russia has concentrated its forces to attack in the Kupiansk direction, but thus far has been unable to break through.

If true and not some gayops from either side, all the takes I've heard are worried about the sheer size of the alleged army. 900 tanks also mentioned... while Ukraine has to parade with a few dozen vehicles and without air support

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

This is now making it to the mainstream news:
[Archive]
View attachment 5219473
This seems to be the original source:

If true and not some gayops from either side, all the takes I've heard are worried about the sheer size of the alleged army. 900 tanks also mentioned... while Ukraine has to parade with a few dozen vehicles and without air support

I've been looking hard at the topo maps & satellite of that area, and it's definitely somewhere they could amass such a large troop concentration along the Oskil river north of being heavily wooded, sparsely populated, and filled with nature-trails/preserves.

However, the ground on the Ukrainian side consists of a kilometers-long bluffs & ridgelines, rising sharply from the river, running almost the entire length of the river north to Kharkiv. Kupyansk itself sits on low ground, but with the hills and bluffs surrounding it on all sides; and without crossing the river is approachable only from a narrow pinch-point between two reservoirs.

My guess is they're going to push further south from Lyman towards Petropavlivka, and/or maybe try to cross somewhere like Dvorichna, where the river is much smaller. But that town is also surrounded by high-ground & would be highly defensible. Additionally, trying to take Kupyansk itself probably would be a bridge-to-far, so they'll want to try and roll up Ukraine's flank south, towards Kyslivka & Podoly.

My other hunch is it's one of the few places left to the Russians that has any sort of concealment value from observation & ambush, as so much of Ukraine's drone & scouting forces are concentrated in Zaphorizia, Avdiivka, Bakhmut, etc. The villages & forests haven't been blasted flat yet, as well.

Edit:
These developments are kind of personal, as I have two good friends in that AO. One is a medic near Berestove, who was in Bakhmut for the duration; the other is a Romanian volunteer on his 2nd trip to Ukraine, after being severely injured in a vehicle-BMP accident last autumn. They were initially deployed down in Zaphorizia, but very recently repositioned. We have a system for staying in touch, but even that contact has become almost non-existent lately.

 

[Cool Dog Returns]

The Soviets were never our allies, and they helped start WWII by doing exactly what Hitler did. The moment the war in Europe became a Moral War is the moment where the US, her people, and her forces could do anything for that justification, including turning right around and demanding soviets to btfo before they get wiped to the only functional and frankly overwhelming global power in the world at that time. If we supported Eastern Europe like we did the West, which with the US's dummy thicc economy we certainly could spare some support, the cold war could have never been a thing, the soviet ideology stuck to Russia and maybe portions of China.
Remember, Russia lived only because the US was singlehandedly supporting it's entire infrastructure with not just lend-lease, but also everything needed to logistically support that lend-lease, from trucks to clothes to food. People forget about this because the majority of soviet command was made up of retarded sycophants who couldn't tell a truck to go from A to B without Stalin getting involved and being an idiot.
Funnily enough this hasn't changed in a century and Russians keep forgetting that it's literally every other country that's doing the actual work on making their anything function. Unironically one of the most pampered shitholes in human history. At least African countries have the decency to beg everyone else for food, Russians just expect to be catered to.

Your mistake was helping the commies at all thinking that if you didnt they would surrender to the nazis and then all the krauts would move to the western front

Anyone with half a brain att knew it was impossible because the nazis were waging a war of extermination and the russians werent just going to rope themselves let alone sign a peace treaty with people who wanted to holocaust them so they were going to fight to the end and bleed the krauts dry anyway, just that the destruction would have gone well past moscow and into siberia, and at the end the commie union would be dead. With that you also get no commie china since they wouldnt been able to face the kmt alone with no backing

The reason the soyviets got the gibs from you burgers is because of all the commies you had in your society simping for stalin att, same ones that then gave them the bomb for free

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

From how I understood it explained by someone who is "in the business", with range comes a loss of fidelity; unless multiple radars are networked together. In the beginning they were coded to disregard low-altitude, low-RCS, low speed contacts to avoid flooding the scopes with flocks of birds, insect swarms, etc. But the Russians lost so many systems early on so they pulled back & dispersed the rest (along with turning them off to avoid HARM), so the S-400 essentially lost it's ability to accurately cover those huge swathes of airspace where drones fly.

This makes sense.
It's why the AN/APG-77v1 radar on the F-22 has like two estimated detection ranges for its radar, one being ~400km and the other being ~200km. One is when the radar is directing all of its output into a narrow wave beam focusing at a further target (longer range) but with less peripheral view, the other is when its basically beaming everything with 120* angle of itself (shorter range).
aerospace spergs tell me if im misstating this

This is now making it to the mainstream news:
[Archive]
View attachment 5219473
This seems to be the original source:

If true and not some gayops from either side, all the takes I've heard are worried about the sheer size of the alleged army. 900 tanks also mentioned... while Ukraine has to parade with a few dozen vehicles and without air support

I'm pretty sure this is old news, or at least old as in known a few weeks ago when Ukraine was beginning its counter-offensive.

Firstly, not all the troops in that estimate are frontline units, secondly it makes no mention of what qualifies as a "tank", thirdly Ukraine has more than "a few dozen" vehicles, at this point in the fighting they have almost achieved armor parity with Russia*.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of Ukraine's tanks are T-series, mostly T-64 and T-72, rather than modern Western tanks or even B-tier Russian tanks like T-80 & T-90 (or the rare Ukie homebrew T-84).

 

[Cool Dog Returns]

Unfortunately, the vast majority of Ukraine's tanks are T-series, mostly T-64 and T-72

Arent the ukies retrofitting a bunch of more modern western electronics on those tho? like proper optics with termals and shit, things the ruskies no longer have access to

Could they fit some APS defense to those tanks? like trophy?

 

[Night Crawler]

The problem Russia has is it never actually believed it would find itself in a war where all the bluffs about their weapons systems would actually be called. The fact that the bluff was called by a country at the ass end of Europe that isn't even in NATO just makes it harder for the Vatniks to swallow. It why they say the Kinzals are great success and show expended Patriot Missile Motors on the ground as proof.

The Kinzhals have been such success that Putin had two of the scientists from the program arrested. That's a sure sign of success. lol

 

[Uranus Pink]

Arent the ukies retrofitting a bunch of more modern western electronics on those tho? like proper optics with termals and shit, things the ruskies no longer have access to Could they fit some APS defense to those tanks? like trophy?

That is what Ukraine and other Eastern European countries are doing with AFU tanks. Those returning from the front for repair, refit and rebuild. Also those in the Ukrainian boneyards being pulled in for evaluation of whether they could brought back into service, or stripped for parts. On the matter of drones, for Ukrainian drones the average life expectancy is three missions. People not in the fight underestimate Russian air defenses as it is preventing the Ukrainian Air Force from obtaining air superiority. On the same token Ukrainian air defenses also been doing to same to Russian air assets from gaining air superiority. S-300 SAMs when they got people who know what they're doing are extremely dangerous and not to be discounted.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

Gifts from Ukraine to lonely Russian soldiers:

I'd say stuff VOG grenades in them, it appears they have enough girth; but pelting the enemy with dildos of consequences has it's own appeal. Ukraine truly is teaching us a masterclass on battlefield trolling. I just hope future history books written on the war don't skimp the subject.

 

[Uranus Pink]

The Puritan moral fags most certainly will omitted the Ukrainian shitposting shitlordism from the approved "official" military history books, at least those written and published in the USA. Which is where the memoirs, and the "other" military history books come into play. As they're be where the less sanitary unpuritanical side of how thungs goes on in the military and in warfare.

 

[Vince McMahon]

shitposting shitlordism

Is a gift to lonely russki homosex. Have you forgotten the famous drone video where there's passionate oral love among the ruins? Worthy of Greeks and Romans.

 

[Ghostse]

People not in the fight underestimate Russian air defenses as it is preventing the Ukrainian Air Force from obtaining air superiority. On the same token Ukrainian air defenses also been doing to same to Russian air assets from gaining air superiority. S-300 SAMs when they got people who know what they're doing are extremely dangerous and not to be discounted.

S-300 SAMs are a threat against the aircraft in theater becasue they are all 3rd and 4th generation soviet fighters. For modernized 4th generation fighters (4.5/4+ gen) provided you don't have a hot SAM appear in close range where you weren't expecting one, the 5v55 lacks the range, power, or sensor sophistication and is too big to be launched "quietly" - the pilot is going to know they're being attacked and will very likely have time to respond with maneuvers to ECM. I mean yes, you can always get lucky and hope the pilot is distracted as 150kg of explosives is still going to ruin an aircraft's day.

The main counter to the system's shortcomings in a modern battlespace - launch several and hope you can overwhelm the pilot or otherwise get lucky - is available due to the stupid amounts of S300 launchers in the region.

 

[jalopy]

The Kinzhals have been such success that Putin had two of the scientists from the program arrested. That's a sure sign of success. lol

It's even sadder for the Russian Military Industrial Complex. Those two scientists were charged with trumped up charges of leaking state secrets.
The form in question? Scientific papers published in an Iranian journal. The papers had been approved for publication by their superiors.

What those arrests did was tell the entire Russian Defense Research community that if their final products don't match the absurd claims of the Russian MoD then you'll be prosecuted. Much moral, such not-Stalinism.

 

[World in Scarlet]

Attacking the harbour used to export grain is truly the most debile diplomatic play and drives home how sincere Putin is when he cries about the poor starving African children and how corrupt African leaders who amplify this nonsense are.
The whole grain deal is such a farce. Russia gets to delay or stop shipments at will in return for Russia not attacking merchant ships, but if you read the media they never mention who the grain is being protected from. You could probably read MSM all year and never be induced to ask the question why civilian ships need Russian protection to dock in Ukrainian harbours.

I hope the recent kerfuffle about a big Russian offensive in the East is real. It would be lambs to the slaughter, in full accordance with the stated goals of the Special Military Operation, which is progressing according to plan and even ahead of schedule.

 

[Glowie]

Arent the ukies retrofitting a bunch of more modern western electronics on those tho? like proper optics with termals and shit, things the ruskies no longer have access to

Could they fit some APS defense to those tanks? like trophy?

Fuck off Rita, you know jack's shit about military much less weaponry fielded in Ukraine.

Ukraine doesn't have to retrofit anything outside storm Shadow adapters for SU23s

 

[Ghostse]

Fuck off Rita, you know jack's shit about military much less weaponry fielded in Ukraine.

Ukraine doesn't have to retrofit anything outside storm Shadow adapters for SU23s

You are correct that is probably a shit-stirring because that poster is a Vatnik (or I guess more accurately one of those "We need to merge the threads because I'm getting threadbanned from both threads because my troll game is weak" types) but he's not wrong about Ukraine's tanks having better optics; they use Thales components but the designs are native though so I'm not sure I'd call them "western".

Trophy hasn't been put on anything other than the T-14, and non-controlled demo tests of the system have not been very inspiring. Given the T-14 relies primarily on APS instead of armor for protection, that'd probably be why Russia has been using them only sparingly in completely safe deployment.

 

[teriyakiburns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66242446

https://archive.is/wip/OZyff

Seems that, along with Russia throwing a complete bitchfit about its bridge, there has been another mobik smoking accident in a Russian ammo dump.

This private information is unavailable to guests due to policies enforced by third-parties.

 

[Brain Problems]

What are the odds that between Putin cucking out of Sooth Eefrica and throwing a rocket bitch fit at grain silos, that he gets cucked again by the Turkroach?

Curious what's going on behind the scenes and how much of this is Russian bluster vs some quiet acknowledgement that sailing the Black Sea is a privilege not a right with Erdy.

 

[Vince McMahon]

S-300 SAMs are a threat against the aircraft in theater becasue they are all 3rd and 4th generation soviet fighters. For modernized 4th generation fighters (4.5/4+ gen) provided you don't have a hot SAM appear in close range where you weren't expecting one, the 5v55 lacks the range, power, or sensor sophistication and is too big to be launched "quietly" - the pilot is going to know they're being attacked and will very likely have time to respond with maneuvers to ECM. I mean yes, you can always get lucky and hope the pilot is distracted as 150kg of explosives is still going to ruin an aircraft's day.

The main counter to the system's shortcomings in a modern battlespace - launch several and hope you can overwhelm the pilot or otherwise get lucky - is available due to the stupid amounts of S300 launchers in the region.

Genuine question: isn't S-300 (and the S series in general) more mobile than Patriot missile defence system?