Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Not At All A Lizard]

Always love these daily posts on the ukes hitting Kursk/Belgorod. Oh the humanity of these incessant, unprovoked terrorist strikes of pure evil on poor Russian citizens. By the way they were massive and enormous but there was no damage.

 

[teriyakiburns]

Opinion piece.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/24/wagners-polish-gamble-may-drag-west-into-war-with-russia/

https://archive.ph/X9tzT

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e: highlighting this part again, because it's worth pointing out:

That battle took 10 months of grinding fighting; the incompetence of the regular Russian army could now see it handed back in about 10 weeks.

 

[MG-34]

Opinion piece.

As much as I would love to see Poland's military curbstomp a bunch of lightly armed PMCs and light trucks I doubt anything will happen. I find it very hilarious there are ziggers that think they found some kind of loophole where not only Poland would somehow be unable to invoke Article 5, but the Polish military would be unable to destroy a Wagner Expeditionary group with a modern military.

 

[Oxyjen]

I hope all these people who say they don't want to give Ukraine weapons don't suddenly change their stance when Trump wins in 2024 and possibly keeps the weapons flowing to Ukraine.

Hate to tell you this bro, but Trump supporters are not renowned for caring about looking hypocritical.
Another factor is how much of a favour a re-elected Trump owes to Putin. 2016 was clearly achieved with Kremlin help. Trump put effort into squeezing the Ukrainians and tried to make military support conditional on them smearing Biden.
Perhaps the debt has already been settled using that stolen intelligence, but who knows.

 

[MG-34]

Hate to tell you this bro, but Trump supporters are not renowned for caring about looking hypocritical.
Another factor is how much of a favour a re-elected Trump owes to Putin. 2016 was clearly achieved with Kremlin help. Trump put effort into squeezing the Ukrainians and tried to make military support conditional on them smearing Biden.
Perhaps the debt has already been settled using that stolen intelligence, but who knows.

That video of Biden bragging about blackmailing the Ukrainian government was pretty damaging and was worth investigating. For what it was worth, Ukraine finally received US weaponry during the Trump Administration as the prior Obama Admin was scared of crossing that line. I feel with the Biden Administration and the leaders appointed by him we're fighting this war the same way we fought Vietnam, with self imposed limitations to our own detriment. I'm interested to see if a Second Trump Administration would go full tilt and send in heavy equipment to end this war sooner. The current administration is behaving too slow for my tastes. The MAGA crowd will follow whatever the pro Trump talking heads say on twitter anyway, hypocritical optics or not this war needs to be ended as soon as possible on favorable terms to Ukraine.

 

[teriyakiburns]

2016 was clearly achieved with Kremlin help.

It was clearly nothing of the sort. Russia put out ads for Hillary as well. The intent of their actions wasn't to support one candidate, but to create discord and confusion within US society and its political machine. Russian's MO is to create paranoia and mistrust amongst its enemies, with disinformation, lies, and false flags, in order to prevent them cooperating against its goals.

It's a fact that Putin shit himself and did nothing while Trump was President, even though he was actually in a better position to invade in 2017 or 2018, when the Russian military was still at high readiness after taking Crimea and the Ukranian military was still disorganised. Waiting until 2022 gave Ukraine the chance to more thoroughly reorganise its military, update its doctrines and training, and prepare a better defence, but also let the terms of too many of Russia's experienced servicemen lapse, leaving a poorly trained (even by Russian standards) rump of inexperienced troops to take part in the next phase of invasion.

 

[Oxyjen]

to create discord and confusion within US society and its political machine. Russian's MO is to create paranoia and mistrust amongst its enemies, with disinformation, likes, and false flags, in order to prevent them cooperating against its goals.

I don’t disagree with that, but of the two candidates, Hilary was well known to be hawkish towards Russia, whereas Trump was constantly seeking to do business and get his hotels established there, and had multiple connections with shady oligarchs.
I don’t want to derail the thread but have to dispute the idea that there was no preference or no targeted support.

This was all investigated at great length and such interference was found.

https://www.acslaw.org/projects/the-presidential-investigation-education-project/other-resources/key-findings-of-the-mueller-report/

Russia engaged in extensive attacks on the U.S. election system in 2016 ​

• Russian interference in the 2016 election was “sweeping and systemic.”[1]
• Major attack avenues included a social media “information warfare” campaign that “favored” candidate Trump[2] and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.[3]

​

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

I don’t disagree with that, but of the two candidates, Hilary was well known to be hawkish towards Russia, whereas Trump was constantly seeking to do business and get his hotels established there, and had multiple connections with shady oligarchs.
I don’t want to derail the thread but have to dispute the idea that there was no preference or no targeted support.

This was all investigated at great length and such interference was found.

https://www.acslaw.org/projects/the-presidential-investigation-education-project/other-resources/key-findings-of-the-mueller-report/

Russia engaged in extensive attacks on the U.S. election system in 2016 ​

• Russian interference in the 2016 election was “sweeping and systemic.”[1]
• Major attack avenues included a social media “information warfare” campaign that “favored” candidate Trump[2] and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.[3]

​

I don't doubt for a second that Kremlin tried to fuck with US elections (and will keep doing so), but that doesn't mean it's why Trump won, as lefties want everyone to believe.
Simply sowing doubt in the core institutions of US is beneficial to Kremlin, they could easily do that, but I don't think they have the capability to outright change the outcome.

I do hope that US keeps opposing Kremlin on the issue of Ukraine for the foreseeable future. Because Ukraine needs all the help it can get, and because Putin's regime hinges on success in this conflict and I want to see it burn.

Russian government just pushed through some new laws, went through with the changes to compulsory military service, there were talks about raising minimal age from 18 to 21 while increasing the ceiling from 27 years to 30, but as usual these rumors served as lube to reduce friction as they simply increase it to 30, ensuring that pool of the potential cannon fodder is increased.
Along with that increased fines and added ban on leaving the country for anyone who got issued summons (povestka), even if it wasn't delivered in your hands - it's enough for them to decide that you'll be conscripted.

What it's telling me is they're aware that this war is going to drag on for a while, easily more than another year, and are making sure there's meat to keep Ukraine from retaking their land.
In that vein, we can also expect another winter season filled with terror attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure, possibly even more vile than we've seen so far.

All that said, seems like there's every incentive for sensible young male Russians to flee the country, because government only sees them as expendable tools.

 

[Oxyjen]

Simply sowing doubt in the core institutions of US is beneficial to Kremlin, they could easily do that, but I don't think they have the capability to outright change the outcome.

Maybe not at the moment, but there was an open goal in 2016 and they pretty clearly took it.

Do read through the report or at least the summary. Now that the heat has subsided, and with some hindsight it’s really quite revealing. And no one can paint Mueller as a lefty journo.

 

[AgendaPoster]

Maybe not at the moment, but there was an open goal in 2016 and they pretty clearly took it.

Do read through the report or at least the summary. Now that the heat has subsided, and with some hindsight it’s really quite revealing. And no one can paint Mueller as a lefty journo.

Russia's goals are not propping up an ideology or candidate, but to create unrest and destabilization. It is coincidentally accurate that Hillary, as an animal of the neolib/neocon system, was more keenly aware of Russia's ambitions and sought to limit them. It's also true that Trump is pretty stupid and various dictators can get him to be friendly towards them, as long as they play to his ego with various praise and "edgy" anti-system takes.
You have to keep in mind that the right in the US is desperate and lacks any leadership or competent players, so people will generally be unhappy if you take the hammer to whatever is left of that and perceive it as a personal slight. Gotta be delicate with the few people on the right that are not idiotic enough to suck Putin's dick.
Russia is not supporting MAGA, republicans or Trump. They hate America, and the more powerful and stable it is, the more they hate it. So whatever might chip at its strength.
Now I am not an American, so you guys figure it out between yourselves.
---
Oh and keep in mind what we're dealing with here. That's just a random paragraph from the anti-lolbert article posted here, where you get dumbs if you disagree with lolbertism.

things are... complicated

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

Carthagians might disagree, if there were any around.

You can tell the Romans did some pretty horrendous and unjustified things during the Punic Wars by how badly they attacked the Carthaginians for their own alleged atrocities. In fact the Romans performed human sacrifice for the last time during the second one, it was that bad for them after Cannae. The only real evidence we have for child sacrifices by Carthage/Phonecians are stories from their mortal enemies, the Israelites and Romans.

So I take all of those claims in the Bible and elsewhere with a huge grain of salt. No pun intended given the other legend about the city of Carthage.

Kind of like Russia towards Ukraine in fact, except the Roman Republic during the Punic Wars had a robust constitutional government and capable military with little corruption or disloyalty.

 

[Oxyjen]

They hate America, and the more powerful and stable it is, the more they hate it. So whatever might chip at its strength.

And what better way to do that, than to assist into power a corrupt, highly divisive narcissistic kleptomaniac, who you can control through both greed and fear!

I’ll leave it there since this is going off topic, I was just a little surprised to see the knee-jerk reactions to what is generally established fact. I guess 4 years of the right wing sektur non-stop shouting “noo collusion - russia hoax” had some effect.

 

[Kendall Motor Oil]

Maybe not at the moment, but there was an open goal in 2016 and they pretty clearly took it.

Do read through the report or at least the summary. Now that the heat has subsided, and with some hindsight it’s really quite revealing. And no one can paint Mueller as a lefty journo.

IIRC, there was a study by the government on Russian interference in the election media and Russia was behind a push on Tumblr for Bernie Sanders. There was also a conflict of interest with the Clinton email server scandal due to the CEO of Crowdstrike being the former head of the CIA under Clinton. Some of the spooks at defcon think several people had access.

Kind of like Russia towards Ukraine in fact, except the Roman Republic during the Punic Wars had a robust constitutional government and capable military with little corruption or disloyalty.

This reminds me of a quote from Goebbels about the Katyn Massacre:
When Joseph Goebbels was informed in September 1943 that the German Army had to withdraw from the Katyn area, he wrote a prediction in his diary. His entry for 29 September 1943 reads:

"Unfortunately, we have had to give up Katyn. The Bolsheviks undoubtedly will soon 'find' that we shot 12,000 Polish officers. That episode is one that is going to cause us quite a little trouble in the future. The Soviets are undoubtedly going to make it their business to discover as many mass-graves as possible and then blame it on us".[53]

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

Drones drop water w/medical supplies & guide lost/wounded troops home:

 

[World in Scarlet]

New evidence emerged that proves that the Ukraine War is fake:

link [Archive]

No wonder people talk about everything but Ukraine in this thread. The writers strike deprives them of material.

---

This is how to talk to Russian diplomats.

link [Archive]

 

[Glowie]

Every time I pop in here just to see Russian leadership crumbling slowly.
Losses in southern and eastern fronts, more meatshields sent from Russia to trenches.

Putin's strong arm politics are failing, Western ruskieboos can't cope or justify how saviour of white race are failing (Most of Russia are Mongol rape babies, therefore not white. They behave like Chinese and think like low trust society scum)

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

Rheinmetal confirms they're sending "Skynex" to Ukraine:

In the second half of 2023, Ukraine will take delivery of two cutting edge Skynex air defence systems, including airburst munitions. The Skynex systems will be mounted on new Rheinmetall HX 8x8 military trucks.

Archive

Which are these things:

Archive

This is one of the systems I've been hoping would get tested in combat soon; if it works as advertised it'll be a huge step up in defense against drones/swarms, and business will be good for RM.

 

[Not At All A Lizard]

Rheinmetal confirms they're sending "Skynex" to Ukraine:

This is one of the systems I've been hoping would get tested in combat soon; if it works as advertised, it'll be a huge step up in drone defenses.

As an armchair private who has played video games, I've been wondering if we'd see more old school anti air to help deal with drones. Like whatever the modern version of a Flak cannon is, which I guess this device might be.

 

[teriyakiburns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66304522

https://archive.is/wip/KE0zk

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Winning!

e: TwitterXANDERXENONXTREME chatter indicates UAF may be making modest gains south of bakhmut. Someone will post a proper source shortly, I'm sure.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

As an armchair private who has played video games, I've been wondering if we'd see more old school anti air to help deal with drones. Like whatever the modern version of a Flak cannon is, which I guess this device might be.

They've had lots of old Russian 23mm, 37mm, and some larger, along with Bofors 40 & 57mm cannons for a while; I know they've been pulling older systems from use on the front too, as more modern weapons arrive to replace them. So lately the skies over Kyiv have been looking more like Baghdad than Sarajevo.