Nintendo Switch (Currently Plagued) - Here we shit post about the new Nintendo console, The Switch

[Two Dollars]

I feel like that was added out of necessity, I don't agree poor reaction time is the sole (or even main) issue with taking damage, enemy/hazard placement is. You can deal with it all if you move like a snail but nobody wants to do that in Sonic.

Again, enemy/hazard placement isn't a problem if you pay attention, regardless of whether or not you've seen the level before. You don't have to move like a snail either, you just have to put in a little more thought than "hold right to win".

Sure, in a strictly technical sense, but people want to go fast because it's fun and it's the theme of the game. I don't agree it's always a skill issue that people get hit or slow down.

They're free to go fast, they just have to watch where they're going. If there's an enemy on your path, roll into it; there's no reason not to roll if you're at a high enough speed anyway. If you have to jump onto a hill, take half a second to make sure nothing is shooting at you. If you need to fall onto a moving platform, make sure your momentum lines up so you don't hit the spikes below. It's not rocket science, every platformer expects the same things.
And if the player's "gotta go fast" meme mentality is interrupted because they got hit? Spend a whole three seconds grabbing a few rings and charging up a spin dash, problem solved.

 

[Celebrate Nite]

You can deal with it all if you move like a snail but nobody wants to do that in Sonic.

It might be just my old boomer(ish) ass, but when I was a kid, after finishing Sonic 1-3k a bunch of times I decided to play the game in walking speed to see if there were any goodies I possibly missed along the way of going fast. I also dicked around with debug mode for those games, and both events were very rewarding and informative because once you escape the one tracked mindset of going to one path and getting there quick, the levels themselves become more expansive and the replayability factor increases even more, to where you have the entire level layout photo-copied onto your brain so you know every tip'n'trick there is.

An example being Emerald Hill Zone in Sonic 2. You can get ALL 7 chaos emeralds in both act 1 and 2 combined to by the time you get to the 1st robotnik battle, you'll be wiping the floor with his fat-ass as super sonic. Of course, nobody tells you this, but Act 2 specifically has a FUCK-TON of hidden checkpoints scattered all over the area, and a good chunk of them happen to be in the sky. But again, you wouldn't really know this as a kid unless you decided to take your time and EXPLORE... you know, that thing that is an essential fundamental pillar of PLATFORMERS.

 

[whatever I feel like]

It might be just my old boomer(ish) ass, but when I was a kid, after finishing Sonic 1-3k a bunch of times I decided to play the game in walking speed to see if there were any goodies I possibly missed along the way of going fast. I also dicked around with debug mode for those games, and both events were very rewarding and informative because once you escape the one tracked mindset of going to one path and getting there quick, the levels themselves become more expansive and the replayability factor increases even more, to where you have the entire level layout photo-copied onto your brain so you know every tip'n'trick there is.

An example being Emerald Hill Zone in Sonic 2. You can get ALL 7 chaos emeralds in both act 1 and 2 combined to by the time you get to the 1st robotnik battle, you'll be wiping the floor with his fat-ass as super sonic. Of course, nobody tells you this, but Act 2 specifically has a FUCK-TON of hidden checkpoints scattered all over the area, and a good chunk of them happen to be in the sky. But again, you wouldn't really know this as a kid unless you decided to take your time and EXPLORE... you know, that thing that is an essential fundamental pillar of PLATFORMERS.

It always blows my mind when people say the Amazon Ruins stage in 2 is easy. As a kid I was always stuck on the lower path, trying not to drown.

 

[Inafune Fanfiction]

I think I get the criticism though. You're encouraged to go fast, and the level design has never been conducive to that, often actually punishing it until you've memorized stages enough to make playing it feel good.

They're still great games but designed sort of counterintuitively. To beat a stage quickly you're going to have to replay it, that's just how it is.

Same could be said for the Megaman Zero games.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Again, enemy/hazard placement isn't a problem if you pay attention, regardless of whether or not you've seen the level before. You don't have to move like a snail either, you just have to put in a little more thought than "hold right to win".

I'd have to play again and take notes/screenshots but there's even a couple infamous instances of this. The one that comes to mind is there's one of those mantis looking enemies in, I think, Starlight Zone positioned in a way that unless you know it's there you're not going to avoid taking damage (you're moving vertically iirc).

Funny thing is that one is not even a speed issue because you're jumping, and he's off-screen until it's too late because of poor enemy placement, it is a problem sometimes.

They're free to go fast, they just have to watch where they're going. If there's an enemy on your path, roll into it; there's no reason not to roll if you're at a high enough speed anyway. If you have to jump onto a hill, take half a second to make sure nothing is shooting at you. If you need to fall onto a moving platform, make sure your momentum lines up so you don't hit the spikes below. It's not rocket science, every platformer expects the same things.
And if the player's "gotta go fast" meme mentality is interrupted because they got hit? Spend a whole three seconds grabbing a few rings and charging up a spin dash, problem solved.

Sonic doesn't have the tightest/most responsive controls, when going fast you're a bit more out of control than, say, Mario. You're going to miss platforms or hit enemies, that's just how it goes when moving fast. The placement or size of platforms can just not be too small or awkwardly placed to land at high speed imo.

The only solution I've found is replaying the games or slowing down in hard stages which just imo feels antithetical to playing Sonic. If you're going fast in Sonic Advance it's a death wish in certain zones, it's probably the worst about it among the older 2D Sonics I've played.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

Today's apparently the 20th anniversary of F-Zero GX's release, for anyone who gives a shit.

 

[IDanceonTrannyGraves]

Alright. I won a sealed game lot recently and was thinking I might want to unseal and play one of them.

Are any of the following good and fun to play or are they trash that is fit to only sit on my shelf and accrue value?:

Tales of Symphonia Remastered
Kirby RTD Delux
Pokemon Brilliant Diamond
Triangle Strategy
Super Mega Baseball 4
Kirby Star Allies
Sonic Mania
Sonic Forces
Mario Tennis Aces
Wario Ware: Get It Together
Pokemon Sword (lol this is a double, already have it sealed)
The Smurfs Village


Edit: Oh no, I googled Tales and the port sucked. That was the one I was thinking of most.

I liked Triangle Strategy despite its stupid name.

 

[Calandrino]

So out of that list, we're singling out Sonic Mania as being the game for autists

 

[whatever I feel like]

So out of that list, we're singling out Sonic Mania as being the game for autists

Well thats Forces, but that goes without saying.

 

[Anonitolia]

>in the same fucking series that includes Marble Zone and Labyrinth Zone and also the entirety of CD
View attachment 5230802

>2 stages out of hundreds + the most divisive, out-of-the-ordinary game in a series with 20+ games released over decades invalidates my entire argument

If you see an enemy in front of you and don't attempt to roll through it/jump over it/look three feet in front of you at what immediately follows, then yeah, you're going to take damage

It’s not the enemies being in front of you that’s the problem, it’s the fact that- when you’re having fun and going fast- unless you know the level layout you’ll get stopped by one that you couldn’t see coming due to the camera speed.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

>2 stages out of hundreds + the most divisive, out-of-the-ordinary game in a series with 20+ games released over decades invalidates my entire argument

One of your assertions was unless you're a speedrunning autist you probably won’t get much out of it, but just the fact that millions of people buy and play Sonic shows that's not true. Maybe you were just exaggerating but it's a pretty obviously untrue statement regardless.

 

[whatever I feel like]

>2 stages out of hundreds + the most divisive, out-of-the-ordinary game in a series with 20+ games released over decades invalidates my entire argument

If you think the near-universally beloved Sonic 1 is "the most divisive, out-of-the-ordinary game" in the series you're out on a fucking limb, mate. I'll give you a hint, every single 3D Sonic is either more divisive than Sonic 1 or flat out agreed upon to be bad. Every Sonic game released after 1996, with the exception of Mania, is either more divisive than Sonic 1 or flat out agreed up to be bad.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

If you think the near-universally beloved Sonic 1 is "the most divisive, out-of-the-ordinary game" in the series you're out on a fucking limb, mate. I'll give you a hint, every single 3D Sonic is either more divisive than Sonic 1 or flat out agreed upon to be bad. Every Sonic game released after 1996, with the exception of Mania, is either more divisive than Sonic 1 or flat out agreed up to be bad.

Sonic Advance is pretty well regarded, I think. People don't mention Sonic Pocket Adventure much but it's usually positive albeit not enthusiastic.

Sonic CD is the earliest one aside from spinoffs that is pretty divisive, after that Sonic Adventure (but it was loved at release, it seems more due to it not aging well and bad ports dragging down its reputation).

 

[whatever I feel like]

Sonic Advance is pretty well regarded, I think. People don't mention Sonic Pocket Adventure much but it's usually positive albeit not enthusiastic.

Sonic CD is the earliest one aside from spinoffs that is pretty divisive, after that Sonic Adventure (but it was loved at release, it seems more due to it not aging well and bad ports dragging down its reputation).

Sonic Adventure was only loved at release by hardcore Sega fans. The rest of gaming culture gave it a big ole stink eye. I remember reading gaming magazines after the Dreamcast's end "hyping up" Sonic coming to Gamecube. They were all "these games aren't the best but hopefully future Sonic titles will be less shit!" Alas, the two Adventures were followed up by Heroes, which the rest of the world seems to have mercifully forgotten about and Shadow, which it remembers all too mirthfully.

edit: Those two games are just flat out fucking broken. Try playing SA1 without losing lives (or re-starting, or whatever) due to Sonic falling through the floor or randomly flailing off of the race courses. Go on, I dare you. You can't do it.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Sonic Adventure was only loved at release by hardcore Sega fans. The rest of gaming culture gave it a big ole stink eye. I remember reading gaming magazines after the Dreamcast's end "hyping up" Sonic coming to Gamecube. They were all "these games aren't the best but hopefully future Sonic titles will be less shit!" Alas, the two Adventures were followed up by Heroes, which the rest of the world seems to have mercifully forgotten about and Shadow, which it remembers all too mirthfully.

edit: Those two games are just flat out fucking broken. Try playing SA1 without losing lives (or re-starting, or whatever) due to Sonic falling through the floor or randomly flailing off of the race courses. Go on, I dare you. You can't do it.

Hm, I didn't read gaming magazines a lot, most of what I heard was online because of that and also due to not knowing anybody with a Dreamcast at the time. It seemed to be well liked, but of course there were detractors, usually in the form of console war shit saying it wasn't as good as Mario.

Heroes looks like shit, and I'd say that's where things really fell off a cliff. It's one of the few Sonic games I don't even want to try.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Heroes looks like shit, and I'd say that's where things really fell off a cliff. It's one of the few Sonic games I don't even want to try.

Heroes was mostly decent as a Sonic game. It wasn't too far removed from the Adventure style of gameplay, though I can understand why nobody cared for the team gameplay. At the end of the day, everybody wanted to play as Sonic. Where things really fell of the cliff was Sonic '06, which was damn near unplayable.

 

[Two Dollars]

If you think the near-universally beloved Sonic 1 is "the most divisive, out-of-the-ordinary game" in the series you're out on a fucking limb, mate. I'll give you a hint, every single 3D Sonic is either more divisive than Sonic 1 or flat out agreed upon to be bad. Every Sonic game released after 1996, with the exception of Mania, is either more divisive than Sonic 1 or flat out agreed up to be bad.

I'm 99% sure that statement was referring to CD, not 1. Still a stretch, unless you count "the series" as just mainline Genesis + Mania in this context.

Sonic Adventure was only loved at release by hardcore Sega fans. The rest of gaming culture gave it a big ole stink eye. I remember reading gaming magazines after the Dreamcast's end "hyping up" Sonic coming to Gamecube. They were all "these games aren't the best but hopefully future Sonic titles will be less shit!" Alas, the two Adventures were followed up by Heroes, which the rest of the world seems to have mercifully forgotten about and Shadow, which it remembers all too mirthfully.

edit: Those two games are just flat out fucking broken. Try playing SA1 without losing lives (or re-starting, or whatever) due to Sonic falling through the floor or randomly flailing off of the race courses. Go on, I dare you. You can't do it.

I'll admit I didn't follow gaming magazines until around 2005/2006, but I remember the Adventure games being well received. It's not until 06 and to a lesser extent Shadow the Hedgehog when the whole "akshually Sonic was NEVER good" narrative started.
But I'm curious, which version of Adventure did you play? Most of its bugs, especially collision bugs like clipping through the corner in Emerald Coast, only happen in later ports. The original Dreamcast version was a technical marvel that's only recreated today by modding the shit out of the Steam version.

 

[Calandrino]

If you think the near-universally beloved Sonic 1 is "the most divisive, out-of-the-ordinary game" in the series you're out on a fucking limb, mate.

To be fair it's sort of divisive-ish among the actually good ones. I like it the best myself. Also, Sonic was getting whored out for meh games like Spinball even pre-3D...

Ye olde Sonics let you go as fast or slow as you want in accordance with your familiarity with the game, comfort, and whether or not you care. You're not required to go fast or penalized for going slow, but if you care to zip through on a repeat playthrough, the gsme is accommodating with a skill ceiling that will go as high as one cares to take it. They are welcoming games that still have meat for players who know them inside and out.

It's not actually much like your average trannyrun, which is all about shaving frames off of playthroughs of games that (usually) weren't designed to be played for speed to begin with, for the sake of competing to be Earth's gayest retard in the Extra Special Olympics.

The visibility issues are a real thing but the game design does take them into account. Blind deaths aren't a huge problem (in most levels), it's mostly blind ring loss. Contrast old Amiga/western platformers were you can't see shit captain but the game expects you to memorize every single offscreen hazard or die. Vectorman 2 is one prime offender. I thought Mania's resolution bump might help with that anyway, but I haven't gotten around to trying it.

 

[whatever I feel like]

I'm 99% sure that statement was referring to CD, not 1. Still a stretch, unless you count "the series" as just mainline Genesis + Mania in this context.

I'll admit I didn't follow gaming magazines until around 2005/2006, but I remember the Adventure games being well received. It's not until 06 and to a lesser extent Shadow the Hedgehog when the whole "akshually Sonic was NEVER good" narrative started.
But I'm curious, which version of Adventure did you play? Most of its bugs, especially collision bugs like clipping through the corner in Emerald Coast, only happen in later ports. The original Dreamcast version was a technical marvel that's only recreated today by modding the shit out of the Steam version.

I didn't play them but I watched fan LPs of the Gamecube versions. Lots of jank deaths and it was from people who actually loved the games.

 

[Two Dollars]

I didn't play them but I watched fan LPs of the Gamecube versions. Lots of jank deaths and it was from people who actually loved the games.

If you feel like killing half an hour, Cybershell made a great video going over all the changes. The short version is that the Gamecube port was worse across the board (collision bugs, visual effects, new models, enemy behavior not accounting for the new higher framerate, etc) with few improvements, then each subsequent rerelease was a port of the previous rerelease. It led to a mess of things that Adventure became "infamous" for that weren't even in the original version.