Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

God only knows what the accounting systems at the Department of Defense alone look like.

I'm surprised the MSM allowed this to be part of the narrative. Unless it is so obvious as to be unmissable at this point?
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Though I'd wager a great deal of money they've done quite a bit more than "tried."
 
The funny thing is the western narrative claims that Russia is both completely isolated internationally and at the same time able to constantly launch coups in Africa.
Western narratives love doing this, remember how Trump is supposed to be the single most retarded and incompetent preseident in history, struggling to understand even basic concepts, while simultanously also being an Evil mastermind that was *this* close to destroying America and cause WWIII
 
Western narratives love doing this, remember how Trump is supposed to be the single most retarded and incompetent preseident in history, struggling to understand even basic concepts, while simultanously also being an Evil mastermind that was *this* close to destroying America and cause WWIII
To be fair, Trump isn’t alone in this endeavor.
 
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Western narratives love doing this, remember how Trump is supposed to be the single most retarded and incompetent preseident in history, struggling to understand even basic concepts, while simultanously also being an Evil mastermind that was *this* close to destroying America and cause WWIII

These same faggots love harping on about how everything is fascism and nazism. Isn't this whole "the enemy is both overwhelmingly powerful and laughably weak" a cornerstone of one of those lists of signs of fascism these cunts love pontificating and shouting about?
 
I don't want to be presumptious because I know literally nothing about military strategy, but I have always been amazed at people referring to NATO military advisors as if they were anything special. Since the existence of the USSR and the times of the Iron Curtain, the former Soviet republics viewed "foreign" as synonimous with "awesome".

"Moscow is finished, Ukraine has the genius of Canadian generals at their side".

Dudes. How many wars has Canada fought in and won in the previous half a century? I heard the Ukrainian recruits asked "But what should we do with the Russian mine fields" and were told "just go around them" by the NATO instructors.

There is the old adage of "the generals always prepare for the previous war". Judging by the opening moves we saw last year, both Russia and NATO were still thinking in terms of WW2. The way things stand now, the Russian and Ukrainian armies are currently the most up-to-date fighting forces in the entire world. The availability of drones revolutionized warfare (again) and so new doctrines have to be tried, tested and implemented. Right now NATO has less experience in fighting a modern war than the Ukrainians themselves.
Most NATO instructors were for basic and advanced infantry tactics, medical advice, and high level "thinking ". Stuff like "How to do an AAR", how to motivate subordinates by NOT stealing their pay or beating them, etc.
You're not wrong that people tend to overhype foreign advisors. But there's a wide fucking gulf between expecting to have the next MacArthur at your side, and getting a guy who thinks you can race through a minefield faster than the mines go off, Call of Duty style. Which is why I say they're either getting good advice and ignoring it, or they've got retards on their side which is a concerning development in general, considering the head of that advisory is almost certainly US, which does have combat experience and spent entire decades preparing specifically to fight this very war right here, just at a much higher intensity.
Sorta, although prewar the US and Ukrainian Armies published training videos and it was a lot of remedial and semi advanced stuff. Thinks like squad tactics, room clearing, basic maneuvers, things like evacuating a tank/APC, and that stuff. 99% of Western military combat experience was policing actions in the 3rd world against motorized infantry at best.
Armies were preparing for insanely advanced, coordinated and cohesive warfare. And what we've gotten is the Korean War with cope cages to try and stop javelins. We still ended up preparing for the wrong war, because the preparations were done by wargamers and bureaucrats with a sprinkle of sci-fi and military-industrial complex salesmanship. Turns out that landmines don't care about advanced threat avoidance technology, and all the advanced artillery direction in the world still struggles to defeat a trench full of dudes.

Edit: Yes my examples of future war are exaggerations, my points just that they were preparing for science fiction, not blood and steel.
The Iran Iraq war is very similar too.

You're correct that the West had a gigantic "technology will solve everything" fetish, with sci Fi weaponry making things like emcom, camouflage and large ammo stockpiles irrelevant..... Oh and huge fleets of armored vehicles and massive amounts of tube and rocket artillery. Ah and the best part.... Air Superiority is a fundamental law of nature for NATO/USA.

I remember reading a few years back (by a think tank dumbass no less) that armored vehicles should be replaced by armored cars and trucks immediately as ATGMs have made anything heavier than M1117 / JLTV irrelevant and useless.

Meanwhile in the REAL WORLD French AMX-10RC armored cars are getting wrecked by shell fragments and AP HMG fire and any autocanon Russia uses. Oh and those tires are more fragile and less useful in soft ground than people though.
 
I remember reading a few years back (by a think tank dumbass no less) that armored vehicles should be replaced by armored cars and trucks immediately as ATGMs have made anything heavier than M1117 / JLTV irrelevant and useless.
The Bundeswehr is planning to create 3 Brigades of so called "mittlere Kräfte" which will be fully equipped by armored cars and wheel based self propelled guns. So it has gotten beyond the think tanks. The argument is that these formations could be quickly deployed in the baltics, but I don't think they will be useful for anything more than tripwire duty. However since they are largely replacing unarmored trucks and old M117 with Boxers it is still an overall gain for the army. But I still think it would be a lot smarter to add another fully equipped tank divisions instead of 3 medium brigades.
 
Meanwhile in the REAL WORLD French AMX-10RC armored cars are getting wrecked by shell fragments and AP HMG fire and any autocanon Russia uses. Oh and those tires are more fragile and less useful in soft ground than people though.
This sort of reality is why I highlight wargamers and bureaucrats. A lot of this stems from the paper idea that you can craft a battleplan and force composition that leads to victory with no casualties on your side. The bureaucrats love it, and the wargamers play by their system rules and according to them, the armor of X vehicle can survive Y strike or mine hit, so its fine. Then you go into a real fight and you find the shrapnel lodges into stuff and jams mechanism, and shatters important external equipment. The mines didn't penetrate the body but did snap the drive system, and the crew bailed out into a minefield. Suddenly your perfect strategy just killed a vehicle crew.

Most of the wargamers won't fall for that trap, but the Bureaucrats just need to find one example of one wargame stacked in favor of the narrative they want to sell. Reminds me of tales of cold war era wargames where the opfor player was forbidden from utilizing any tactics that they "didn't think the Soviets would come up with", forcing them to play by a predefined book bluefor preemptively had countered. Whenever they let the opfor player off the leash, bluefor got absolutely wiped. I find it unlikely that sort of fuckery has stopped in the modern era. More than ever it seems to be about selling a convincing political message instead of being ready for the reality of a war. You don't have to know very well how the next war will be fought to know that your enemy will definitely find ways to kill your shit you never expected, so prepare for that at a minimum.
 
Reminds me of tales of cold war era wargames where the opfor player was forbidden from utilizing any tactics that they "didn't think the Soviets would come up with", forcing them to play by a predefined book bluefor preemptively had countered. Whenever they let the opfor player off the leash, bluefor got absolutely wiped.
See the excellent documentary Down Periscope (1996) to see this in action.
 
I remember reading a few years back (by a think tank dumbass no less) that armored vehicles should be replaced by armored cars and trucks immediately as ATGMs have made anything heavier than M1117 / JLTV irrelevant and useless.
I think that to this day, Leopards have been getting wrecked just as fast as Bradleys. The AMX-10 isn't designed for a Ukraine style battlefield, its meant for desert warfare with extremely long visibility, almost to the horizon, its a niche vehicle that only works in the niche combat the French employ it in. Though the Stryker itself was a failure, and the cannon variant wasn't even viable, it is what the future of "Armored vehicle" is going to look like, some IFV with a turret that is interchangeable and can shrug off small arms fire. The moment any vehicle gets attacked by artillery or ATGM they're going to get fucked, either a mobility kill or a full destruction, this has been true since WW2 when the Stuka was ripping apart French tanks or taken to a new level with the American forces were flipping Tiger tanks during/post D-day invasion by dropping 1000lbs bombs right next to them.
 
Reminds me of tales of cold war era wargames where the opfor player was forbidden from utilizing any tactics that they "didn't think the Soviets would come up with", forcing them to play by a predefined book bluefor preemptively had countered. Whenever they let the opfor player off the leash, bluefor got absolutely wiped.

I just checked and you seem to be thinking about a 1981 NATO exercise on naval war against the Warsaw Pact where the fucktards in charge honestly expected no Aircraft Carriers to be sunk by the "Red Team" despite the fact the entire fucking Soviet Navy was choke full of subs and meant to do so.

By far the worst example though and the one that perfectly shows the current rot in the western military leaders is the Millennium Challenge 2002 where the USA decided to do a massive wargame after 9/11 to flex their new theories of advanced warfare and new toys and high tech,

They set up Blue Team as the USA and then had Red Team led by a former Marine lieutenant general play "totally not Iran or Iraq guys" where he only had cold war era hardware.

Marine proceeded to eat a few crayons while reading the plans, and then promptly shat on the whole thing by just ignoring the tech.

He ignored the radios and instead had guys on motorcycles deliver orders and intel. He had boats run without any electronics on. He had them run suicide attacks as he knew actual muslims getting invaded by Great Satan would. He had his old fighters turn all their transponders off. In 48 hours he had sunk a entire carrier group.

Of course, they had the whole thing be re-started and demanded he stop actually trying and instead just follow the script of "dumb ay-rabs getting killed by Uncle Sam" or else. And the brass had the gall of saying it was a good wargame and not rigged guys valuable intel!

These are the people who are running the show here. It makes all the retarded shit suddenly make sense.
 
By far the worst example though and the one that perfectly shows the current rot in the western military leaders is the Millennium Challenge 2002 where the USA decided to do a massive wargame after 9/11 to flex their new theories of advanced warfare and new toys and high tech,

They set up Blue Team as the USA and then had Red Team led by a former Marine lieutenant general play "totally not Iran or Iraq guys" where he only had cold war era hardware.
Its amazing how this fable persists, the fucking Marine General was given huge leeway for his bullshit, effectively getting equivalent vision and technology with no drawbacks. Bicycle messengers that would teleport from Cairo to Tehran in seconds, thus being impervious to signal interception but also getting real time communications with no drawbacks. Boats would follow around the carrier task forces and also have assholes on speedboats traveling via instant teleportation to the nearest port where they would meet said teleporting bicycle messengers.

Ripper then does a massed missile attack on the carrier task force on the grid the carrier group was in and sunk the entire thing, a threat that the US Navy understood long before the challenge, swarm attacks have been a known threat for decades by that point, so they refloat the fleet and tell him, "Ok good job, now come up with a new strategy to handle the invading force" then Ripper ragequits the wargame and the wankery continues 20 years later, as if the whole point of a wargame is a one off simulation rather than iterating on many different scenarios for weeks.
 
Its amazing how this fable persists, the fucking Marine General was given huge leeway for his bullshit, effectively getting equivalent vision and technology with no drawbacks. Bicycle messengers that would teleport from Cairo to Tehran in seconds, thus being impervious to signal interception but also getting real time communications with no drawbacks. Boats would follow around the carrier task forces and also have assholes on speedboats traveling via instant teleportation to the nearest port where they would meet said teleporting bicycle messengers.

Well that certainly puts a different spin on things.

These sound a lot more like actual issues than what the war game says about it. The way all of it is worded comes off as the Red Team using a legitimate strategy and being forced into abandoning it. I always assumed the riders were doing more of tactical level intel and order transfers not "Tehran to Cairo" ones.

Do you have a link to the actual sources? Wikipedia ones are mostly dead.
 
Do you have a link to the actual sources? Wikipedia ones are mostly dead.
At this point I'm just going off of memory for a bunch of the details as to why it was fucked, all of the articles and exposure on what really went down is from the old internet of the early-mid 2000s. Van Riper still hangs around in the Marine community, he writes under the pen name Marinus for The Maneuverist, and he doesn't exactly buy into the "Omg Ukraine is gonna win at any moment!" stuff wrote does an explainer about the run on Kiev in the beginning of the war, I attached the pdf of his writing from Aug 2022. He also rants a lot about the idiotic "littoral" force the US Marines are being pivoted to, effectively creating the situation Ukrainian forces are in for absolutely zero reason, dropping armor for vague wunderwaffen that will probably never get developed. Van Riper is something akin to half lolcow, half competent, he is surrounded by complete fucking retards in the Pentagon so he gets a big head on his shoulders that makes him act erratic.
 

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