Young men reveal why so many of them are single: ‘Dates feel more like job interviews’

From: https://nypost.com/2023/03/01/rate-of-single-men-in-the-us-looking-for-dates-has-declined/

They’re single but they’re not mingling.

New data from the Pew Research Center has shown that 63% of men under 30 are single – up from 51% in 2019.

COVID isolation and women’s high expectations for something serious are the main reasons they’re avoiding going out and coupling up, young guys say.

“Dates feel more like job interviews now. Much more like ‘What can you do for me and where is this going?'” said Ian Breslow, a 28-year-old high school teacher who lives in Astoria.

“The ‘getting to know you’ period is gone and that doesn’t feel so great after coming out of isolation.”

He recalled a recent first date that went quite well until the woman interrogated him on their walk home.

“She literally asked me, ‘Would you rather our kids go to public or private school?’ Followed by several more extreme questions about getting married. I just started responding with what I knew she would hate the most to get her to leave,” Breslow told The Post.

Experts agree that women are certainly wanting more than ever before.

“The overall picture [is] that if a woman is going to go on a date with a man, chances are it’s not for a casual fling,” Ronald Levant, professor emeritus of psychology at the University of Akron, told The Post.

“Especially if the woman is kind of getting close to 30, [she’s] thinking about the biological clock and wants to have a family,” he added.

Breslow isn’t looking to settle down and get married anytime soon, so he’d rather have casual flings.

“The way dating is currently just makes me want to hook up locally with no stress or strings attached,” he says. “Fortunately that part comes very easy … I’m unmotivated to search for something serious for the time being.”

Ian Breslow said the face of dating has changed greatly since COVID.
Andrew Bruno, a 28-year-old nurse from Bellmore, NY, says flirting in the post-COVID era just isn’t as fun as it once was.

“Being able to naturally approach people while out isn’t like it was pre-pandemic. People are still much less likely to leave their groups or cliques at a bar,” said Bruno. “They’re certainly less talkative and that’s lowered my incentive to put myself out there.”

He also said the pandemic, more than ever before, made dating apps the central means for meeting people — and he’s not a fan.

“That just really isn’t my style. Like there is a weekslong prerequisite before you can think about getting involved, even for casual things,” Bruno said. “I’d rather take all that effort and put it towards my career.”

And, like Breslow, he’s in no hurry to get hitched.

Andrew Bruno feels that people have become less approachable while out since COVID.
“I’m also still very young,” Bruno said. “I don’t feel the need to rush, especially if people don’t act as naturally as they did before COVID. Why would I put it all out there for someone who can’t or won’t hold a conversation?”

For Mike M., a 25-year-old in Queens, it’s his — not the opposite sex’s — social skills that are still battling a bad case of long COVID.

“I definitely can’t walk into a room and go talk to someone I’m interested [in] like I used to be able to. It feels like my outgoingness has suffered some atrophy,” Mike, who withheld his last name out of embarrassment, told The Post.

He’s also having less sex than he did pre-pandemic.

“I have definitely been going online to take care of my urges more than I have by seeing people,” Mike admitted.

What do you think? Be the first to comment.
He feels as though he lost two prime years in his early 20s of being able to date and have fun without worrying about being in a serious relationship.

Now, he’s under pressure to find a long-term commitment, but can’t put himself out there.

“I also feel like I’m caught between two worlds,” he said. “Ultimately I’ve just been crashing and have had neither lately.”
 
And yet, when you point out that these boys in the article don't want commitments but instead to "have fun" (i.e. fuck around as per their own admission), you get a swarm of either disingenuous liars or latent homosexuals around you.

I find it incredible that so many men are willing to either lie or ignore that they have a biological impulse to spread their genetic code to as many available and willing females as possible. It's admirable when men can admit that but also control it.

The "boys" in the article are at least honest about it, even if they are looking for pity points (or sex, as the case might be).
That's true for any person of any sex. If I said I would willingly be a slave and do anything you command would you be against it even if you abhor slavery? Of course not. No one argued otherwise in the concept you presented either, even if these guys just want sex by admittance the ladies interviewing them couldn't possibly read minds before hand so even if it was the alternative mind set these ladies would still be acting in said manner. So how does that change the response to it?

Even in the alternative case if a woman is interviewing you in a date most men will be put off, yes you should discuss serious matters if you plan to have a serious relationship, but that should come gradually doing it in one sitting is not only meaningless because from my own experience women will ask the same questions again and again in a future date either as a test or randomly for no reason to get reassurance which becomes annoying over time. Women on the other hand don't like being put on the spot in such a fashion either.

Most men and women prefer gradual build up and not someone throwing a questionnaire at them early on in getting to know each other or in dating. It would be considered unfun and at best tone deaf to both sides and appropriately so. The guys wanting to fuck around are going to do so whether you interview them or not and will learn what response gets them likelier to their goal, even if it means lying so that changes relatively nothing for either the "fuck around" types or the "serious relationship" types other than making the experience less thrilling and leaving men thinking the woman is a girl-boss attitude, and women thinking the man is too serious and rushing things.
 
When I said "this issue" I really did mean the lack of engagement, and thus procreation, of men with women in a romantic way. Again if this poll is accurate at all to the larger populace %62 of men under 30 checking out of any romantic interest whatsoever should terrify anybody who likes living in a first-world nation with reliable first-world amenities.

This terrifies me for sure. I guess my question is, where do we go from here? How do we improve/repair gender relations? How can we encourage both genders to behave in pro-social ways & maintain our current quality of life?

From the female perspective, I would argue that we encourage pro-social behavior by discouraging anti-social behavior. As an example, IMO, when men fuck women and then dispose of them like objects & abandon their families, that is anti-social behavior. Individual men might benefit from this strategy (via propagating their genes etc.) but when you look at the bigger picture, it harms society when you damage women and create fatherless children. So it behooves women who are family-oriented to screen for indicators of male promiscuity, and eliminate those males from their dating pool. This is where "interview-style" dating comes in. We're eliminating men who lack loyalty/generosity/patience, and reward the men who DO possess those qualities, by creating families with them (risking our lives in the process). We're trying to select for GOOD genetics/qualities. We're trying to improve society.

But men hate this???

It feels like over the last couple years, women have been trying to raise the dating standard, and men have responded by... kicking & screaming & mentally checking out of dating... so why is this??

It feels to me like men are lashing out cause we're ruining their short-term fun. Men don't seem to want to rise to the challenge we've presented. Is it because they want to maintain the status quo? Why can't they think long term & work with us?? It's frustrating.

I want what's good for society, I want men to choose pro-social behaviors, I want happy families and all the first-world amenities. Genuine question: if not interview-style dating, how else can women encourage men to be active participants in dating? how do we move forward?
 
his terrifies me for sure. I guess my question is, where do we go from here? How do we improve/repair gender relations? How can we encourage both genders to behave in pro-social ways & maintain our current quality of life?
Fight against divorce courts, stop initiating divorce and taking mens children at a rate of ~80% of the time. Fight against being "unhappy" with a man who is solid, lower expectations from a "perfect chad" to a solid man with flaws. Stop voting in competition (foreigners) against the native men, stop destroying men in society, stop making masculinity out to be toxic, call out feminism INCLUDING first wave as being bad. Stop doing in group preference to women all the time.

This is where "interview-style" dating comes in.
It doesn't solve a thing, when the men can figure out the proper answers to get through women's interview and just fuck them. It's a non-answer to any problem men face to coming closer to women again.
 
I had a chat with an "older" (40's) guy on the train the other morning about this. He was newly divorced, and I havent had to worry about dating in 10+ years. I mentioned how I feel bad for anyone having to go through this process. It's not just a fun way to meet people anymore, it really is like a job interview. He said he was being asked about his income and shit.
 
This terrifies me for sure. I guess my question is, where do we go from here? How do we improve/repair gender relations? How can we encourage both genders to behave in pro-social ways & maintain our current quality of life?
Fully functional AI based humanoid robots so men can practice how to treat women.
And then we won't need to since we'll have fully functional AI based humanoid robots.

It feels like over the last couple years, women have been trying to raise the dating standard, and men have responded by... kicking & screaming & mentally checking out of dating... so why is this??
Opportunity cost. I can spend a bunch of time trying to find a date, go to a bunch of date interviews get nothing, repeat that 30 or 40 times and maybe get a girlfriend. Or I can open a browser type in "hotwomenvideos.com" and solve the problem myself.
 
Hate to DP but I can't re-edit to fix my quotation in last post:
But men hate this???
Yes, because you are merely making men's dating life harder for the serious ones, while fuckboys and attractive guys still get an easy fuck out of you and your suggestion only hurts ugly people or men with less experience in dating.

It feels like over the last couple years, women have been trying to raise the dating standard, and men have responded by... kicking & screaming & mentally checking out of dating... so why is this??
But you haven't. Because you expect more out of men, and still creating more problems in the long run. Why should a man have to have higher requirements to date you when you have NO incentive not to divorce him or low standards to leave him in case you are unhappy in marriage.
It feels to me like men are lashing out cause we're ruining their short-term fun. Men don't seem to want to rise to the challenge we've presented. Is it because they want to maintain the status quo? Why can't they think long term & work with us?? It's frustrating.
Women have made it harder to stay with them long term and short term, why would men want either by that logic, when society is hard enough on men these days as is? Status quo died years ago, and men TRIED to work with women and look at our current societies now men are seeing women using them like slaves and fighting back as they should in their own SELF INTEREST.

I want what's good for society, I want men to choose pro-social behaviors, I want happy families and all the first-world amenities. Genuine question: if not interview-style dating, how else can women encourage men to be active participants in dating? how do we move forward?
Know you feel you know what's good for society, but you alongside many other women have shown you don't care about men, you just want them to take on more burden. "Why can't they rise to the challenge, why can't they work with us " (at the loss of their own self interest)

You want to move forward: Stop using men as walking wallets, settle down with a man who is imperfect but solid, stop talking to 100 other guys, stop dropping him because some other guy is slightly better at something or looks. Stop using divorce courts against men as said in other post.

It's that simple and always has been.
 
I think that phones/social media has fundamentally changed dating at its core and we're now seeing the effects of that. People no longer look for someone to build their life with, they are looking for someone who already has everything set from the get go so they can just jump in and enjoy the spoils without the hard work and struggles that normally comes with life long relationships. Its because of that change that dating literally is now more transactional and IS essentially a job interview.

Personally I don't have time or energy to date anymore after I've done all the shit I need to do after work, I don't know how other people do it.
 
If our current automation technology hasn't already made 4 billion human beings redundant, it surely isn't going to in our lifetimes
It HAS made a large fraction of the population redundant. An unfathomable number of jobs that used to be done by manpower is now done in a fraction of the time and a fraction of the effort by machine power.

People have this weird mental blindspot where the old boring automation they're used to is the "normal" way and only the stuff that's new and fancy and being hyped up in mass media counts as "automation".
 
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So it behooves women who are family-oriented to screen for indicators of male promiscuity, and eliminate those males from their dating pool. This is where "interview-style" dating comes in. We're eliminating men who lack loyalty/generosity/patience,

Except that's not how it's been working. A 6"4' guy with a lot of money is going to smash even (especially) if he's pushy, selfish, and arrogant. A 5"6' guy making the median wage is going to struggle no matter how much loyalty/generosity/patience he shows. In my experience, women say they value those things but if you look at the guys they go with, it's a minor factor at best. Oftentimes, showing too much of those things work against a guy because it makes him predictable and unexciting.

I don't know what the solve is. I think Mewtwo_Rain brought up a lot of the obstacles though. Basically that progressivism demonizes men and works against them, while celebrating women regardless of how they act. Boys are told "You are guilty of the original sin of patriarchy, even though you are flat broke and have never touched a woman's hand, much less dominated her. Because sixty years ago, men had it good so now you have to grovel for your life." Girls are told, "Men are patriarchs. You should mistrust them because everything wrong in the world is their fault and their wickedness is the cause of every downturn in your life."

The smart guys ignore the programming and the foolish ones internalize it and become incels, troons, betas or simps. I strongly suspect this is an intended outcome. I do not have great hope for this improving. Maybe if the economy gets better and guys start earning more, they could date more. I don't think we were having this discussion so much before Covid.
 
You going for that "Married another Farms User" badge?

I was damn close myself... she was pretty alright and did actually help me alot even if it didn't work out.

Legitimate question, would the marriage need to be viewed under jurisdiction by Josh himself, can the married just sign up for the farms after to get that achievement or do they have to be a user prior to the marriage?

Both must be users beforehand is my understanding, preferably found each other through the site or something adjacent.

The smart guys ignore the programming and the foolish ones internalize it and become incels, troons, betas or simps. I strongly suspect this is an intended outcome. I do not have great hope for this improving. Maybe if the economy gets better and guys start earning more, they could date more. I don't think we were having this discussion so much before Covid.

Lot of us need to learn how to break the conditioning, I'm guilty as shit myself of falling into the mindset and still struggle with it on occasion. Working in woke shit-holes where you have to walk on eggshells will do that to you. Like thinking somebody was cute but legit afraid to ask about a date just cause of how a handful of women have acted and are afraid it'll cost you your job.
 
Oh brother its gonna be one of THOSE threads...
women’s high expectations for something serious
For any zoomers reading this: do not believe in the "its easier for men in your 30s" meme.

Its not, its the same as your 20s but the women aren't as hot but they are 200% more demanding on everything, not just on wanting something serious but that they want the whole package and they want it now. They want you to already have everything ready for them, the days of two people marrying and building a life together from scratch are gone.

And forget about dating 20yo women, those days are over, now they already think dating some guy 4 years older its creepy.

Before someone says "that's because you want to groom some chick"/"you only care about looks", nah, I would gladly marry a 50yo CEO milf and be a stay-at-home dad doing nothing but playing games with the kids and if she divorces me I'm an instant millionaire.

Nobody cares about their wives making more money than them, if anything that's a plus because it means I wont have to work myself to death and she can keep her lifestyle on her own.
letting soyboys use them as disposable cumdumpsters
By definition soyboys never get any, ever.
We're eliminating men who lack loyalty/generosity/patience, and reward the men who DO possess those qualities
No you're not, stop lying.
It feels like over the last couple years, women have been trying to raise the dating standard
Demanding more while making no concessions nor bringing anything to the table is not raising the dating standard, its just making it even more asymmetrical and unfair.
It feels to me like men are lashing out cause we're ruining their short-term fun
You know damn well the vast majority of men aren't getting any of that short-term fun and the ones that do are not affected by any of this.
 
Fully functional AI based humanoid robots so men can practice how to treat women.
And then we won't need to since we'll have fully functional AI based humanoid robots.


Opportunity cost. I can spend a bunch of time trying to find a date, go to a bunch of date interviews get nothing, repeat that 30 or 40 times and maybe get a girlfriend. Or I can open a browser type in "hotwomenvideos.com" and solve the problem myself.

That's it. You are expected to do all the work and then get no reward and repeat it endlessly like a cash cow. I can do something more fun and useful and pragmatic with my time and money, like ordering a Sonichu medallion, investing in crypto, or trying to fix Ethan Ralph.
 
I was damn close myself... she was pretty alright and did actually help me alot even if it didn't work out.



Both must be users beforehand is my understanding, preferably found each other through the site or something adjacent.



Lot of us need to learn how to break the conditioning, I'm guilty as shit myself of falling into the mindset and still struggle with it on occasion. Working in woke shit-holes where you have to walk on eggshells will do that to you. Like thinking somebody was cute but legit afraid to ask about a date just cause of how a handful of women have acted and are afraid it'll cost you your job.
Okay so all I would need to do is get close to a user on site, meet up with them, and use a sign saying "boyfriend free girl" at the airport. IT'S ALL PART OF NULL'S SICK PLOT!
 
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@Vibromatic Heart Bed your interview questions are 100x easier to trick than the ones that companies use. At least with employers they do a background check. With the exception of criminal acts thats something you can't do. Your not going to outsmart men they on average have higher IQs then women.

The evidence of your systems failure is current society. Highest divorce rates ever and more single mommas than any point in history. Uneducated women from 1920 did a better job at picking partners than you.
 
It feels like over the last couple years, women have been trying to raise the dating standard, and men have responded by... kicking & screaming & mentally checking out of dating... so why is this??
Because women have raised their standards but they haven’t improved themselves. The average girl on a dating app has zero hobbies (Netflix, traveling, and dogs don’t count), is tens of thousands of dollars in debt from a degree that earns her nothing, and brags about how drunk she can get.

If you can’t meet your own standards, don’t hold others to them.
 
The smart guys ignore the programming and the foolish ones internalize it and become incels, troons, betas or simps. I strongly suspect this is an intended outcome. I do not have great hope for this improving. Maybe if the economy gets better and guys start earning more, they could date more. I don't think we were having this discussion so much before Covid.
That won't really solve it either, because it will just repeat with men being given diminishing returns and disadvantages at the cost of women in western societies. I am of the utmost belief that women can overwrite their hardwiring just like men have they just refuse to and it doesn't help many men make excuses or suggestions that it's impossible despite seeing evidence of a few girls I know doing it themselves.

It's the same issue plaguing much of society based on hard wiring and impulse control: Obesity, race relations/tribalism/nepotism, etc. The answer is very simple for each of these cases, but it requires the ones causing the most problems for other groups to face that reality and solve it outside the minority (of said groups) and stop acting in such ways... The problem is they don't want to, not that they can't.

The problem long term is in the information age these other groups effected won't forget who aren't simple mongs and brainwashed fogies. So the men hurt by women, and the boys who see it won't forget, the whites attacked by minorities even if they have friends won't forget, etc.

Generally when a girl acts against her impulses I treat her especially well for behaving in such a way and maybe that's part of the problem it shouldn't have to be incentivized, but I'd rather some ladies see the benefits then none at all I suppose.

In regards to earnings, as long as women hive mind and continue the war of the sexes they will set into place a structure to outearn the men and continue this issue by not wanting to "date down."
 
The average girl on a dating app has zero hobbies
That is really fucking bizarre. Even complete loser sperglords have their sperg hobbies, but a ton of women that I meet simply don't do anything. They work, they passively consume movies and music and TV, they socialize, and that's it - they have no craft, no honed skills, no practical knowledge, no individual interests beyond uncritical consumption of entertainment.

It seems like such a boring, miserable existence.

I am of the utmost belief that women can overwrite their hardwiring just like men have they just refuse to
What incentive do they have to do so? Their wiring is socially condoned and personally rewarding in modern western society - it's only just now that the market for a mate is starting to really tighten.
 
What incentive do they have to do so? Their wiring is socially condoned and personally rewarding in modern western society - it's only just now that the market for a mate is starting to really tighten.
Long term effects and outcomes. Yes I know that's not exactly women or certain groups strong suit, but unlike past ages ago where society evolved based on conceptual beliefs, the internet and age of information has set in stone that these issues won't be just ignored and it can only get worse, even women who haven't overwritten their hardwiring are starting to grasp a problem the problem is due to narcissism they are still trying to ignore the elephant in the room until it's in their face. It may be rewarded now, but it won't be for long, and "faking it" to get benefits won't continue for too much longer.
 
AI might be useful in certain circumstances, but automation? lol. Human labor will always be cheaper than automation until maybe 1000 years from now, and that's only if we figure out how to do it on the cheap. Robots are shit. They're too expensive, they can't reason like a human being, and they break down a lot. If our current automation technology hasn't already made 4 billion human beings redundant, it surely isn't going to in our lifetimes, our children's lifetimes, and our grandchildren's. You're talking shit that's so far off it's not even worth considering.
The problem with AI is being able to code every possibility with an answer and having it work properly ten-million times out of ten-million occurences. Sure you can get robots to do simple repetitive motions with amazing accuracy; but problem-solving and what-not is gonna take a very long time. Especially when you consider how the human brain uses, what is essentially shortcuts to process information. A robot needs to be explicitly told how to behave under every circumstance and situation and not fail to be deemed useful... and with how neutered progressives and making AI, I don't think we'll ever get there.

That is really fucking bizarre. Even complete loser sperglords have their sperg hobbies, but a ton of women that I meet simply don't do anything. They work, they passively consume movies and music and TV, they socialize, and that's it - they have no craft, no honed skills, no practical knowledge, no individual interests beyond uncritical consumption of entertainment.
Be me, don't watch TV or see many movies; offend a girl because I don't know what she means when she tells me she's "looking for the Michael to her Pam." No, I don't watch the office, nothing is wrong with me, I just don't find TV that entertaining. Yes I do play videogames, yes I know they're not real, I also know that The Office, Friends, Scrubs, and whatever other shit you're watching on TV isn't real either; the difference is I'm socially aware enough to not say shit like "Looking for the Tifa to my Cloud," because I recognize that's cringy as fuck.
 
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