Russian Special Military Operation in the Ukraine - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

The Military Industrial Complex has long since lost the agility needed to develop and deploy a new chemical weapon in a timescale that'd matter to this war. Developing anything seems to take them a decade plus, and there is absolutely no incentive to slow down the graft train when it comes to a war on foreign soil - even if the war is lost, that just makes everyone worried about the Russians, which is more business in their pockets.

I know folks might think "Its just a new payload for an existing shell" but nah when it comes to chemical weapons of any form, you really absolutely do not fuck around with just shoving it in an old design and hoping for the best. You absolutely ground up redesign that thing less you inadvertently create a mix that weakens the old sealing compound over a six month period, and end up gassing out half your clients. If they were regularly making new shit then they might be capable, but as it stands they're too busy spending a decade failing to recreate 1980's level space launch technology, and failing to understand that no amount of computers and 'battle space tactical awareness' will deflect Russian tank rounds when they hit your fancy armored car.
I wasn't talking about a chemical weapon, I don't think even the Americans are callus enough to go down that route. I was talking about deploying herbicides on mass. Yeah they could be poisonous to humans as well but they are usually nothing like a dedicated chemical weapon.

The biggest practical problem is not to get the chemicals, they have tons of all kinds of stuff in storage. The problem is how they get it on the fields as they can't exactly spray it from airplanes like they did in Vietnam because the Russians have air superiority. Maybe they can deploy vapor clouds in the evening when the wind is blowing the right way, which then condenses when temperatures fall during night time? Ofc, with this method, they will contaminate vast areas with this herbicide besides where they want it.
 
We'll see how committed to the cause all these refugee-welcoming yet quagmire-supporting Western countries are when tasked with rounding up all the fighting age males who fled to send to the front at gunpoint.
I know the question was rhetorical since we all know it ain't happening, but just to outline it, countries like Germany are using the refugees to offset the catastrophic demographics. They won't send the new wage slaves to die.
To be fair, so far this was only said by Reznikov, who is a clown, a liar, and an idiot. If someone actually important confirms this, then Canadian hohols should start worrying.
Even for tyranical countries like Canada the political gain seems way too low compared to the political risks.
 
I wasn't talking about a chemical weapon, I don't think even the Americans are callus enough to go down that route. I was talking about deploying herbicides on mass. Yeah they could be poisonous to humans as well but they are usually nothing like a dedicated chemical weapon.
Welcome to one of the classic arguments of the Vietnam Era, in which the stated intent of the mass deployment of chemical agents determines whether we call them a weapon or not. As far as I'm concerned, its a moot argument when the shits coming from weapons of war.

The biggest practical problem is not to get the chemicals, they have tons of all kinds of stuff in storage. The problem is how they get it on the fields as they can't exactly spray it from airplanes like they did in Vietnam because the Russians have air superiority.
This is exactly my point when I say they cannot develop the weapon in a timescale that matters to this war. These solutions are not being developed by engineers, they are being designed in boardrooms by committee with an eye on maximal budget and product lifespan. They move slower than then average HAES Athlete in the produce aisle, they'll never get any of it ready in time to actually use.
 
The way they have been trying to appeal to different diasporas that may have a beef with Russia is kinda interesting. Particularly that press release Zelensky did calling on the "peoples of the Caucuses" or whatever. He's talking about Imam Chamil and others who resisted the Russians in the 19th century trying to tie himself to these romantic figures who fought against Russia in the past.

It seems like an interesting contrast to the way the war is sold in the West which seems to be like "we're G.I. Joe here to defeat that nasty Cobra Russia once again check out the new HIMARS playset"
 
From what I remember reading and seeing on video, the biggest issue was that the Ukrainians were completely forgetting the "self-propelled" part. That is that they were moving them into position, firing...and then staying put. Meaning that they would wind up getting hit by counter-battery fire, strike aircraft, and suicide drones. By contrast, videos of Russian self-propelled artillery units would show them rolling into position, firing salvos, and then getting the hell out of there.
In regular non self propelled artillery, what is the purpose of staying put?

I mean if you're supposed to manually correct the thing's flight path surely they would have noticed that there's no controller or something no?
 
Whatever happened to flamethrowers?

They seem very suited for urban environments as well.
I'd like to take this opportunity to rub it in the faces mention to our non-American readers that in the USA it is perfectly legal to buy a flamethrower attachment for our scary black semi-auto rifles. Dumb and pointless, yes, but still legal (for now).

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Yay freedom!
 
Sharing some news for the day.

Starting off with RT.

Number of Russians who joined army in 2023 revealed (Archive)

“According to Defense Ministry records, more than 231,000 people have signed enlistment contracts between January 1 and today, August 3,” Medvedev noted at the council meeting in Moscow.

“First and foremost, we succeeded in adapting the contract enlistment system to the conditions of the special military operation, and this has yielded results,” Medvedev said, adding that a series of government measures intended to provide for both the soldiers and their families has contributed to making the contract service highly regarded.

Navalny sentenced to 19 years in prison (Archive)

The opposition figure was found guilty on multiple extremism-related charges, including creating an extremist group, calling for extremist actions, financing such activities and luring minors into them, as well as rehabilitating Nazi ideology.

State officials should use Russian-made cars – Putin (Archive)

Speaking at a meeting with leaders of Russia’s manufacturing industries on Thursday, Putin revealed several ministries and other government agencies had asked him to continue procuring foreign cars for administrative use.

“I told them that this is absolutely out of the question. All officials in the country should use domestically produced cars,” the president insisted.

While recognizing that, in some respects, Russian cars might be “more modest” than their international competitors, Putin noted that this was “not a big deal, on the contrary, it is even better this way.”

“All of our magnificent officials must understand that we must strive for the development of domestic brands and cars,” he added.

Apple fined for first time over prohibited content in Russia (Archive)

According to a verdict delivered by Judge Timur Vakhrameev, Apple Distribution International has been found guilty of committing an administrative offense and has been sentenced to pay a fine of 400,000 rubles ($4,200).

....

According to court documents presented during the hearing, Apple was accused of failing to remove applications and podcasts that contained incorrect information about Russia’s military operation in Ukraine, as well as information that was “aimed at involving minors in illegal activities in order to destabilize the political situation in the Russian Federation.”

Now from Faux News.

US to finally end decades-long 'forever wars' this year, Republican says (Archive)

The U.S. may finally see an end to its "forever wars" before the year is over, said Rep. Ken Buck, R-Colo., one of several lawmakers working to kill decades-old war authorizations that have let presidents mount operations all over the world without the express approval of Congress.
 
I've been waiting for that development since this mess started. We'll see how committed to the cause all these refugee-welcoming yet quagmire-supporting Western countries are when tasked with rounding up all the fighting age males who fled to send to the front at gunpoint.

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Agent Orange isn't made any more under that name. Ever heard of Round-Up weed killer? Same thing. Monsanto is the manufacturer (now owned by Bayer).

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In regular non self propelled artillery, what is the purpose of staying put?
With traditional towed guns, the 'purpose' of staying put doesn't exist, its more of a necessity. In theory, you'd still want to pack up and tow the gun away to a new firing position after shooting. In practice, the process of taking down the gun, towing it, and setting up for fire at a new site takes way too long, and if counter battery is paying attention, you won't finish that process in time. Traditional artillery tries to spread out, dig in, and generally is difficult to use offensively as a result, being fairly helpless during all that. Used defensively, being spread out and dug in means counter battery needs to land a direct hit inside the gun pit to reliably kill the weapon. Mechanical accuracy limits (Drones don't care about this as much now) and the natural inaccuracy of measuring artillery trajectories make that difficult, it'll take time and luck to kill the weapon.

Self propelled guns are basically superior in every combat relevant way except one - For the same cost/industrial effort, you get more traditional guns, and numbers matter a lot in artillery war. Creating self propelled guns ain't cheap or easy. You need to create a lightly armored vehicle capable of moving a very large, very heavy gun, at combat speeds. The vehicle also needs to survive firing a very fucking large gun, and be capable of doing so on various terrain under combat conditions without tipping over or burying itself in substandard soil. Operating and maintaining them is more difficult too, with the additional mechanical complexity from the ammo handling and aiming systems. That one only really matters if the gun survives, so isn't really a combat negative.
 
With traditional towed guns, the 'purpose' of staying put doesn't exist, its more of a necessity. In theory, you'd still want to pack up and tow the gun away to a new firing position after shooting. In practice, the process of taking down the gun, towing it, and setting up for fire at a new site takes way too long, and if counter battery is paying attention, you won't finish that process in time. Traditional artillery tries to spread out, dig in, and generally is difficult to use offensively as a result, being fairly helpless during all that. Used defensively, being spread out and dug in means counter battery needs to land a direct hit inside the gun pit to reliably kill the weapon. Mechanical accuracy limits (Drones don't care about this as much now) and the natural inaccuracy of measuring artillery trajectories make that difficult, it'll take time and luck to kill the weapon.

Self propelled guns are basically superior in every combat relevant way except one - For the same cost/industrial effort, you get more traditional guns, and numbers matter a lot in artillery war. Creating self propelled guns ain't cheap or easy. You need to create a lightly armored vehicle capable of moving a very large, very heavy gun, at combat speeds. The vehicle also needs to survive firing a very fucking large gun, and be capable of doing so on various terrain under combat conditions without tipping over or burying itself in substandard soil. Operating and maintaining them is more difficult too, with the additional mechanical complexity from the ammo handling and aiming systems. That one only really matters if the gun survives, so isn't really a combat negative.
Oh, so a self propelled gun is just a gun on wheels lol. So the ukrainians were using the wheeled guns like regular guns by not moving after each shot?
 
We use flammable munitions. Termite, white phosphorous, etc. It's just that the traditional flame thrower people think of had a very specific purpose and was a liability outside of serving that one purpose.

As an aside, there's more ways to clear foliage than agent orange. We use to use crane helicopters to drop big barrels full of explosive liquids that would air burst when dropped. It would totally annihilate anything on the ground in a big circle without leaving a crater in the ground. We used it to create emergency landing zones in Vietnam. Theres a lot of options, you just need to figure out why the foliage needs removed before you decide what to use.
 
Oh, so a self propelled gun is just a gun on wheels lol. So the ukrainians were using the wheeled guns like regular guns by not moving after each shot?
Basically - There's some variability based on what you're attacking, expected enemy capability, etc that might let you fire more if you're particularly confident, but playing that game against an Artillery happy army with peer technology like Russia's is stupid. So either they underestimated the enemy and died for it, or were retarded and just didn't think about relocating. Thirty seconds can make the difference between life and a flaming death.
 
Pretty much all the countries that switched to self propelled artillery only (eg Germany) did so at the cost of greatly reducing their artillery overall. The Bundeswehr pretty much only had a rump artillery unit since the end of the Cold war with less than 200 total guns. Even the big spenders like the US can't afford to move all their artillery to self propelled guns.

Overall, I still think it is worth the switch for a lot of western countries since the limiting factor nowadays seems to be recruitment and self propelled highly automated guns give you more firepower per manpower.
 
RE: all the talk of Agent Orange deployment
This is the same regime that staged false flag attacks on the Zaporozhye NPP fully knowing that they risked causing a nuclear meltdown, and the same regime that blew up a dam and caused a major flood just to deny the Russians some territory. Using chemical weapons is absolutely not out of the question.
Truth is, Ukraine & NATO have become the IRL equivalent of an enemy nation in an Ace Combat game. If they could nuke their own territory, Belka-style, just to spite the other side, they would, without blinking.
 
So, I've got 3 videos and I would like some help in understanding what I am seeing.



Shells shells and even more shells, what they are I am not sure. The guy who posted these from where I got them from said it was nerve gas, but I don't understand what they are saying or if his claim was true.

And here's a video of these shells being deployed. It's a sad death and I can't tell if it's shrapnel or actually nerve gas that impairs him so much.

P.S: I don't know where these are actually from, the guy who posted them didn't mention where he got them from.
 
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