- Joined
- Apr 13, 2021
YABookgate
- Thread starter Puddleduck
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2017
OtherLastTrainHome
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2023
i stumbled upon this thread and have been reading the last 40 pages over a few days. i feel like i've missed out on a valuable resource, and especially the input of @Boston Brand. if anyone's still reading this thread and can give me some pertinent advice, i would be thankful from the bottom of my heart.
i've been writing since the late 2000s, before my teenage years. the best (and current) job i've ever had started several years back. it certainly has its ups and downs, but every day, every week is a chance to write and to edit and immerse myself in the craft. i've always stayed sane by working on my own project begun in the late 2000s, and having had plenty of savings, i've spent some of it on assets for my personal work: i have music, a full, hand-drawn world map (scanned digitally, with the original framed on my wall), several character arts, and a book cover for the first novel.
nobody i'm acquainted with knows that i have all this stuff that's languishing, nor have i ever felt the time was right to share it to my current audience. i also don't have any real support circle in this niche, as the team i am part of is very loose and everyone has some other big thing they're doing... except me. the traditional publishing industry has only gotten worse and worse in my lifetime so i'm not sure i'd ever want to take my chances there, but i only know the broad strokes - i don't know how anything really works when you get into it. i'm not interested in fame or being a debut wonder of any kind: i would just love to finally share what i do have done, and give myself a reason to complete the rest by being beholden to an audience.
in my personal projects, i have four main novels. the first is drafted though it is many years old, and i have a much more complete storyboard now to rewrite it appropriately. there also four novellas in the series as well, in two distinct miniseries that act as prequels to the novels. two of these novellas are already written, but do need editing. there is also a fifth story that is technically a third part to one of the novellas: it's an experimental thing, a very short story, but it is also written. i don't have a great understanding of genres and categorization, but i think my series would technically be classed science-fantasy, with each of the novella miniseries being exclusively sci-fi and fantasy respectively, and all of them fall under the YA umbrella.
if i want to pursue publishing this, what can i do to reach the most people, make the most of the work? i don't long for uber-popularity or wealth, but these projects have weighed so heavy on my mind. they're stories i feel that i need to tell, and my day job has made it clear to me that i'm very good at giving people more than their money's worth. the big, miserable problem is that i am entirely alone in this creative endeavor. i've never enjoyed a sense of teamwork, of sharing a goal this large with anyone, so i don't know how to make the most of it. nobody that i can talk to has time or inclination for me, even in my own circles. i'm certainly not disappointed with them, though: they're just very busy themselves, to the point it's hard for me to justify tugging them out of their zone unless it's directly related to a thing we're doing.
i feel that having a cover, some artwork and some smaller stories to start with is a good place, but that's as far as my own knowledge will carry me.
i've been writing since the late 2000s, before my teenage years. the best (and current) job i've ever had started several years back. it certainly has its ups and downs, but every day, every week is a chance to write and to edit and immerse myself in the craft. i've always stayed sane by working on my own project begun in the late 2000s, and having had plenty of savings, i've spent some of it on assets for my personal work: i have music, a full, hand-drawn world map (scanned digitally, with the original framed on my wall), several character arts, and a book cover for the first novel.
nobody i'm acquainted with knows that i have all this stuff that's languishing, nor have i ever felt the time was right to share it to my current audience. i also don't have any real support circle in this niche, as the team i am part of is very loose and everyone has some other big thing they're doing... except me. the traditional publishing industry has only gotten worse and worse in my lifetime so i'm not sure i'd ever want to take my chances there, but i only know the broad strokes - i don't know how anything really works when you get into it. i'm not interested in fame or being a debut wonder of any kind: i would just love to finally share what i do have done, and give myself a reason to complete the rest by being beholden to an audience.
in my personal projects, i have four main novels. the first is drafted though it is many years old, and i have a much more complete storyboard now to rewrite it appropriately. there also four novellas in the series as well, in two distinct miniseries that act as prequels to the novels. two of these novellas are already written, but do need editing. there is also a fifth story that is technically a third part to one of the novellas: it's an experimental thing, a very short story, but it is also written. i don't have a great understanding of genres and categorization, but i think my series would technically be classed science-fantasy, with each of the novella miniseries being exclusively sci-fi and fantasy respectively, and all of them fall under the YA umbrella.
if i want to pursue publishing this, what can i do to reach the most people, make the most of the work? i don't long for uber-popularity or wealth, but these projects have weighed so heavy on my mind. they're stories i feel that i need to tell, and my day job has made it clear to me that i'm very good at giving people more than their money's worth. the big, miserable problem is that i am entirely alone in this creative endeavor. i've never enjoyed a sense of teamwork, of sharing a goal this large with anyone, so i don't know how to make the most of it. nobody that i can talk to has time or inclination for me, even in my own circles. i'm certainly not disappointed with them, though: they're just very busy themselves, to the point it's hard for me to justify tugging them out of their zone unless it's directly related to a thing we're doing.
i feel that having a cover, some artwork and some smaller stories to start with is a good place, but that's as far as my own knowledge will carry me.
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2017
I'll dig into your post a bit more later @OtherLastTrainHome but at a glance it sounds like you've done about 90% of what a traditional publisher would have for you so you may as well go ahead and do the rest yourself which will be pretty much promotion and polish.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2022
Send it into a proper publisher, say Baen books. Even if you don't want to be published by them. Having a professional or group of professionals in the industry look at your work and come back to you with an honest assessment is worth the effort of submitting in the first place. If you get more than a blank rejection, you've got something. Obviously rewriting and editing will be a large part of going forward. Don't delete any of the old versions, but understand there will probably be a lot of work that needs to be done. After that, it's really up to you on how you want to proceed. You can try and sell it to a traditional house through an agent. Or you can go the indie route and publish on Amazon. The author of the metro series of novels published his first one on his personal blog years before editing it and selling it traditionally; if you want to go that route.
A large factor in your favor is you have all the novels done. The industry will take finished mediocre work over unfinished gold because of the likes of Martin, whose done a lot of damage to the industry and burned a lot of reader good will in the process.
OtherLastTrainHome
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2023
i wanted to give my post some time to breathe before responding. Baen has come up a lot in this thread and i'm optimistic about them giving me the time of day, but i don't know the process. their webpage on this topic is very web 1.0 to me so i figured i'd ask if it's up to date and it sets me up with the right expectations.
to reiterate: i have one novel drafted, which really does need a rewrite before it can be submitted at all. i also have two novellas which are actually written, and may be worth a look to the publisher, one being purely sci-fi and the other purely fantasy. i have some unfinished drafts of the novella's sequels, too.
the point about waiting 9-12 months for a response is rather harsh, so i better make sure my own house is in order. if there's any chance of them carrying me, i think the best odds of marketing myself are to emphasize they'll have at least four novellas and four novels, with room for standalone stories, and that i also have a variety of assets that can be used to market them, like a fleshed out world map (of which there'll be more like it as well).
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2016
Impressive, but you might want to baleet that post and anything else that might allow somebody to track you from KF to your real life ID. God knows I've personally said enough spicy shit on this site through the years (a lot of which I don't believe, but whatever) to avoid "powerlevling" like that. Maybe this can't do that, dunno, your call. But I wouldn't do it.
Anyhoo, and to completely switch gears...
This TikTok from Victoria Schwab is fucking hilarious. She got agented and a book contract while still in college, got published by Disney, got dropped, was immediately picked up by Tor and has known nothing but success since. To watch this thing you'd think she was eating uncooked ramen while living in a shed next to an interstate, persevering for her big break.
Weird because she could legitimately point to her work ethic, stuff like that.
edit: This is gay, it is not allowing it to embed, even though tiktok is one of the supported platforms. Oh, well. I'm assuming the html embed option wouldn't work, either.
edit 2: NVM, was able to download it on Tiktok.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2020
I'm back!
The only bad thing I have to say about Tower of Silence is I have to wait until next fall for Book 5.
Had a bunch of industry types panic too. Nothing makes the guppies piss themselves like a shark.
The only bad thing I have to say about Tower of Silence is I have to wait until next fall for Book 5.
It fucking worked, at least on some of the slate.
Had a bunch of industry types panic too. Nothing makes the guppies piss themselves like a shark.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2021
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2020
Three Gorillion Dollars
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2022
It's basically marketing. I know a writer who makes a lot of money from their books but always presents themselves as a starving artist who fawns over any attention and implores people to support them so they don't go hungry. It's rather disgusting.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2021
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2020
Don't buy that act from Victoria Schwab for a minute. There's a reason you're seeing her everywhere now: After a year of Tor offering every lady with a bad die job and a liberal arts degree a book deal, she's the first to actually sell enough books to justify the advance.
It's why there are a dozen special editions of each of her books floating around now: In a decade where the only new to Tor authors to break 100k sales on a book are white guys like Brandon Sanderson or Christopher Paolini, she's the first woman to break that threshold. Better yet, she's a lesbian!
Granted, she's white, so Tor won't buy her a Hugo, but after a decade of losing money in the diversity push, she's the first one to actually become an earner for the company.
Give me a minute to see what I can share that won't out my position.
A lot is pretty public - John Scalzi had a big meltdown on Twitter over "Teh return of Sad Puppiez", File770 was in a panic (and spun a victory over just four of the nominees making it), but a lot of the stuff goes on behind closed doors. The private SFWA forum, various invite only discords.
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2016
To give her credit, she produces. And apparently knows her audience of YA librarians and blue haired adolescent girls of all ages with daddy issues well enough to write what they like. FWIW, the Hugos still do seem to have a residual snobbery toward YA or YA type books, as much as the whole thing is otherwise thoroughly feminized. And seemingly has little to do with science fiction these days.
I would have had no issue with that silly TikTok I posted if she was discussing her work ethic or her ability to write to the market.
Shaneequa
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2020
I joined a DIY publishing business discord and there were women on there making $20k a month. The biggest piece of advice they give is to write to market.
I got banned from there cause they had a weird tier role system where if you provide a screenshot of your monthly earnings you get a higher rank and they got mad when I sent in a screen saying I made "Thirty-Three gazillion buckz" a month.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2021
Yeah I just read his stupid post over Goodreads reviews as an arbiter of popularity.
EDIT: Oh Jesus I just saw this.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2016
I thought the entry on his blog his daughter wrote about her IUD was, well, not exactly what I expected to see there.
Though this being Scalzi perhaps I should have.
OtherLastTrainHome
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2023
getting along with people in this business sounds really taxing, these days. i'm not being sarcastic either. when i was in high school, my english teacher gave me a writing website where i could sign up for free, something like a workshop. folks were catty there, badgering each other on a constant basis. if they weren't being quarrelsome, they weren't really being very helpful or productive to begin with. i don't remember why i took this screenshot exactly but let's say this was around 2011-2012. either way, it was repulsive, and the last straw for me before i stopped visiting.
larry correia may be a good writer (haven't read anything) but his rants on twitter are radioactive. a few weeks ago he spent several days raging on some unabashed incels - which i'm all for, don't get me wrong. but the more he kept posting, the more he sounded like a MGTOW schizo. i've never seen anyone grab a simple W and then spend days transforming it into an L.
Last edited:
Der weiße Teufel
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2019
That's funny, I just read "The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue" by her, I didn't know anything about her or her other books before that, I just randomly picked it up because it sounded interesting. And then I saw the most insane top review on Goodreads.
So, it's about a French girl who makes a deal with a god/devil/death figure to be able to live as long as she likes, but nobody will be able to remember her. The story spans around 300 years and different western countries. And the review complained about too much "eurocentricity" and "whiteness". The book had no mentions of colonialism or slaves! It was a completely insane take, but I guess what do I expect of Goodreads.
The reviewer basically says (and a lot were agreeing) that it's somehow bad for a white author to write a story about a girl who lives for 300 years in Europe (and who by all intents and purposes is a commoner, trying to live day-by-day) and include popular European writers/artists (Voltaire comes up, and Shakespeare, Beethoven, Wagner) without mentioning slaves or politics or whatever. I cannot imagine that anyone would say anything similar to a non-white author.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2021
I'm pretty antisocial and misogynistic at the best of times, but when all I see are women and trannies in writing groups, leading cons and in positions of power, it just makes the revulsion I feel even worse. Even the men in the industry bitch like women and trannies. You've got to be a bit fucked in the head to be creative, but jesus can we have decent role models that aren't retarded on twitter or mormon?
What I'd really like to do is create an all male group that's curated for not being a tranny or dickhead, like a men's shed for creative writing.