Greta Gustava Martela / Kjel Anderson & Nina Chaubal / Niraj Chaubal - Stole $350k+ from Trans Lifeline, kill count of 2+ from negligence, Founders of Sisterwood/La Zorra.

[Jaded Optimist]

First level 5 I've seen

I'm wondering how many times this person has called. They said "they just wanted to call us one last time."

Those sound like the words of someone who has called several times. The fact that they seemed dead set on following through and described it in detail sounds like someone who was bitter towards TLL to me.

 

[Helvetica Scenario]

And yet, by questioning whether or not this service is fit for purpose and actually able to effectively support people in crisis, we're the ones who don't care about trans people and want to see them dead.

 

[Ginger Piglet]

Ok. See that right there? That's why you call the fucking authorities. Jesus Christ. No wonder Leelah Alcorn ended up killing herself after calling these people.

If I were Leelah Alcorn's family I'd be sorely tempted to pursue a civil negligence claim against these people, or at least investigate it.

 

[Rou]

I'm guessing there is no way to get these jackasses audited.

 

[Null]

I'm guessing there is no way to get these jackasses audited.

Audited is unlikely. Again, small fry, little to gain, and the target is politically incorrect for the moment. The IRS has a lot more to do than harass some trannies. The attorney general is much more likely to go into investigation.

 

[Dog Prom 3D]

I've now recorded over 53 hours of statistics. Here's how the volunteers break down.

Total operators: 331.
Operators seen | time spent on-call:
35|480
448|386
182|180
323|170
485|120
467|119
503|119
424|118
453|118
304|60
275|8

So that says Operator #35 has spent 8 hours exactly on-call. There are 11 operators in total active over that 53 hours.

oh shit nigga. That 8 hours exactly makes me realize why no calls were taken last night despite vols being online.

View attachment 125701

They were scheduled to be on-call by the program, were marked on-call, and totally didn't sit to take calls.

ahahahahaha nigga shit hahahahaha

I'm feeling shamefully slow at the moment. Are you saying here that someone logged in to the call system and then proceeded not to take a single call? Or that they were somehow marked as on-call by a third party when they weren't available to take calls? Like maybe Greta knows she's being observed and tried to jigger the numbers so it at least appeared there were several operators on-call when there really weren't?

 

[Null]

I'm feeling shamefully slow at the moment. Are you saying here that someone logged in to the call system and then proceeded not to take a single call? Or that they were somehow marked as on-call by a third party when they weren't available to take calls? Like maybe Greta knows she's being observed and tried to jigger the numbers so it at least appeared there were several operators on-call when there really weren't?

The scheduler allows you to automatically put yourself on call. I believe calls are forwarded to your number. You set your schedule to be available 9-5, your phone can ring during 9-5. You schedule yourself to be available midnight to 8am, your phone is disconnected, and it says you're on-call without a single call ever going to you. That's how 3 people can be available and only 12 calls be taken in 14 hours.

 

[AnOminous]

Counterintuitive though it sounds, current research shows that guiding callers like that to and through the darkest of places actually leads to better outcomes. It's very difficult for someone who hasn't been properly trained and who doesn't have confidence in the evidence-based research to do.

This kind of incompetent bullshit leads not only to trauma for the callers, but to the poor idiots who actually answer these calls, too.

Audited is unlikely. Again, small fry, little to gain, and the target is politically incorrect for the moment. The IRS has a lot more to do than harass some trannies. The attorney general is much more likely to go into investigation.

Disagree. The IRS ALWAYS goes after EVERYONE. Once it gets set into motion, it's going to get its money.

 

[Dog Prom 3D]

The scheduler allows you to automatically put yourself on call. I believe calls are forwarded to your number. You set your schedule to be available 9-5, your phone can ring during 9-5. You schedule yourself to be available midnight to 8am, your phone is disconnected, and it says you're on-call without a single call ever going to you. That's how 3 people can be available and only 12 calls be taken in 14 hours.

Thanks for clearing that up. This is so wretched it's almost funny except for, you know, all the desperate and suicidal transpeople getting shit on.

 

[Ruin]

Is there even any evidence they take calls from the public? Seems to me to be a troon hotline where ADF and friends can call when they're bored/horny.

 

[on a serious note]

First level 5 I've seen

Holy moly

If one truly wanted to maximize tra.ns suffering the best thing to do would be to just let TLL do their thing

 

[Jaded Optimist]

This kind of incompetent bullshit leads not only to trauma for the callers, but to the poor idiots who actually answer these calls, too.

I've personally and professional have dealt with suicidal people. If they are reaching out for help it means they still have hope. The worst possible thing for these people is to reach out for help when they are at their most desperate and there is no answer. Especially when the website tells them someone is there. It's the quickest way to make a desperate person give up when they are reaching out to people who say they care and there is no reply.

 

[JU 199]

Am I right in thinking that this helpline gives suicidal people hope for someone to talk to while operators don't bother answering calls? thats despicable

 

[repentance]

Is there even any evidence they take calls from the public? Seems to me to be a troon hotline where ADF and friends can call when they're bored/horny.

Pretty sure they do. They were widely promoted in queer media in many different locations and they seem to have some ability to break down calls by general location. At least one volunteer has mentioned giving a caller their personal phone number, which is a huge "no-no" but also suggests they weren't confident that there'd be someone available to handle a callback.

They basically do the absolute bare minimum to allow them to call themselves a hotline/crisis intervention service while spending the majority of their time and money on things which are NOT their stated primary activity.

Realistically, the organisation is so small that you'd disband it if it ran into trouble rather than bothering to bring in new management.

 

[JU 199]

They basically do the absolute bare minimum to allow them to call themselves a hotline/crisis intervention service while spending the majority of their time and money on things which are NOT their stated primary activity.

So it began with good intentions and became fucked over time? Sounds right. It happens allot with these kinds of ventures. The people involved start from a good place and end up compromised. Its the lack of experience that takes you down and its the easy paycheck that keeps you there

 

[repentance]

So it began with good intentions and became fucked over time? Sounds right. It happens allot with these kinds of ventures. The people involved start from a good place and end up compromised. Its the lack of experience that takes you down and its the easy paycheck that keeps you there

I honestly don't know about the good intentions. They started it on impulse according to them and they clearly did very little research into setting up an effective hotline. They rejected offers of help from respected, legitimate organisations. I think that initially it may have been more about ego than money but that they've since realised they can use it to fund their lifestyle without putting in any real work.

Maybe I'm being too charitable, though. It hasn't matured as an organisation in the last two years and that's a massive red flag which suggests that it remaining the Greta and Nina show is more important to them than it becoming an effective service provider.

 

[talk talk talk]

Do we have any information on the sources of funding for TLL?

 

[JU 199]

I honestly don't know about the good intentions. They started it on impulse according to them and they clearly did very little research into setting up an effective hotline. They rejected offers of help from respected, legitimate organisations. I think that initially it may have been more about ego than money but that they've since realised they can use it to fund their lifestyle without putting in any real work. Maybe I'm being too charitable, though.

Perhaps. I think it started as a good idea motivated by genuine sentiment and ended as a scam. Its not uncommon with small organisations like these, they start up with a few people and end as a colossal mess. Not listening to professionals was probably just stupid arrogance.

 

[AnOminous]

Is there even any evidence they take calls from the public? Seems to me to be a troon hotline where ADF and friends can call when they're bored/horny.

It's not like it's hard to do. Are you a suicidal troon? Most of them are. At least they say so.

Call up their number. Do they answer?

Very sad.

 

[GS 281]

It isn't. Real suicide hotlines strictly limit the number of hours volunteers can serve because otherwise they burn the fuck out rapidly.

Despite this, there are many real 24/7 suicide hotlines available, where the 24/7 means just that, and you'll actually get your call answered.

All the information we have conclusively proves this isn't a real suicide hotline. It's an on-again off-again thing at best, where the advertised hours are bullshit, and aren't even remotely the hours you'd have if you were a real suicide hotline. Specifically, most people try to off themselves late at night and at other inconvenient times that aren't arranged conveniently around the social schedules of whoever is mooching money off this scam.

The advertised hours are ridiculous, and even when you call during advertised hours you get a bullshit answering machine message that doesn't even forward you on to real suicide hotlines.

But they are a non-profit that is ALWAYS OPEN though...

70099 Level 5; Repeat caller who describes their plans to complete suicide by hanging in graphic detail then disconnects the call when support is offered. We talked for several minutes and I listened to the caller and offered kindness and support. I asked the caller to place the noose in another room and they clarified that it was. They are tired of coping and see no reason to go on living. They have been watching gore videos of hangings all day and said they just wanted to call us one last time. While offering support the caller disconnected.

And if it was a 14 year old kid they still wouldn't call the cops.

I have been looking through their training Powerpoint and rectifying it with some of the claims they have been making elsewhere. Greta seems like someone who has SERIOUS, SERIOUS problems with the truth. Take a look at this. In these two responses to the FAQ they state explcitly in "participatory research" that "a third of the trans community WILL NOT SEEK HELP in a moment of crisis due to fear of being discriminated against od having emergency services called on them involuntarily and that transpeople are "generally distrustful of various emergency responders".

Most likely this participatory research was based on a survey that they did with Ohio University.

surveymonkey.com/r/TLLInterventionSurvey

Spoiler: Survey

There are several problems with this though. One problem is that the items on the survey don't even reflect what they are saying here vis-a-vis seeking help in a moment of crisis and fear of discrimination. If we are to infer that the item on the survey "When in crisis, how comfortable do you feel interacting with..." to operationalize "seeking help in a moment of crisis due to fear of being discriminated against or having emergency services called on them involuntarily", then their numbers still do not add up.

From their training Powerpoint

They say that one-third will not seek help because of fear, however in item 11 of their survey only 28.82% of people stated that they are not comfortable at all with any or all forms of emergency personnel. This number is skewed by a fear of police showing up to a crisis. When police are removed the percent that are not comfortable at all bumps down to 21.17%.

So not only are they juicing stats in their favor by 15.65% (from 28.82% to 33.33%), but they are misrepresenting the survey item where the stat come from. Every single thing we run into with this place is just disorganized, dishonest or just dumb.