David Steel / LazerPig / Ricewynd / Malquistion - Pathological Liar, Reddit Historian, Femboy Thirster, and Vore Connoisseur

[Amerikaner Teddybär]

I've thought for a long time that the T-14 wasn't meant to be the new MBT for Russia, but instead being a technology demonstrator and testbed for future technologies and concepts, not unlike the Su-47.

Yeah, that's how most military development goes. LP doesn't understand or is ignorant.

Even that's sorta debatable

Yeah but Soviet equipment back then could go toe-to-toe with NATO equipment at the time.

 

[Jewthulhu]

Semiogogue is even worse.
There are about zero NRx-types that are not shilling for Russia.
In fact, if I think real hard, I can find 2 exceptions in RW circles:
- some Martinez dude who seems to be some anti-communist, white latinx WN type, pretty spergy
- Devon Stack aka Blackpilled, who has tried his best to stay away from this. Morgoth is kinda trying it too, but rather unsuccessfully.
The Globalist American Empire is the biggest threat for these dudes. If I didn't know they're mayos, I'd think they live in some cave in Afghanistan considering how triggered they are some corpos banned their Patreons

As an aside, is there an NrX thread to take the discussion to or at least merge the posts into? I didn't mean to derail the conversation, even if all that's really going on right now with the pig is a few boring tweets.

 

[make_it_so]

I've thought for a long time that the T-14 wasn't meant to be the new MBT for Russia, but instead being a technology demonstrator and testbed for future technologies and concepts, not unlike the Su-47.

Pretty sure that unlike the Su-47, the T-14 really was meant to be the new future MBT and universal chassis for all future armored fighting vehicles. They've certainly spent more time promoting and demonstrating the T-14 than they did with the Berkut.

They probably ran into far more technical teething issues and supply chain problems than they anticipated, which is why they thing is still in the developmental stage after all these years. And as for moving back to focusing on the T-90 (and now, apparently, the T-80), that can 100% be put on the fact that they need to focus their resources on the current war, and don't have the luxury to be toying around with something new when they could be focusing on something that works.

There's actually a parallel to WWII here, in that pre-war the Soviets were developing and fielding a number of new and sophisticated semi-automatic or select-fire rifles such as the AVS-36 and the SVT-38/40. However the moment the Germans rolled in they had to put that all aside and focus on pumping out millions of Mosin-Nagant rifles and submachineguns, because that's what they could afford to put out under wartime exigencies .

 

[Nobody Important]

There's actually a parallel to WWII here, in that pre-war the Soviets were developing and fielding a number of new and sophisticated semi-automatic or select-fire rifles such as the AVS-36 and the SVT-38/40. However the moment the Germans rolled in they had to put that all aside and focus on pumping out millions of Mosin-Nagant rifles and submachineguns, because that's what they could afford to put out under wartime exigencies .

The T-34M is also a pretty good example. The Russians knew the T-34 was obsolete when they approved it for mass production, but they thought they had another year at least.

 

[make_it_so]

The T-34M is also a pretty good example. The Russians knew the T-34 was obsolete when they approved it for mass production, but they thought they had another year at least.

Slight disagree. At the time of it's rollout, the basic T-34 was a general all-around better design than any other tank in service in the world at the time in terms of it's combination of speed, protection, and firepower. What let it down initially was the lack of a radio as standard, the need for the commander to double up as an assistant gunner, and the lack of numbers to truly employ them en masse. But as the war progressed and Soviet war production was rationalized down to only a few designs, the gradual improvements made it a better and better tank that could keep up with the German Panzer IV upgrades and deployment of the Big Cats.

 

[Corn Flakes]

Pretty sure that unlike the Su-47, the T-14 really was meant to be the new future MBT and universal chassis for all future armored fighting vehicles. They've certainly spent more time promoting and demonstrating the T-14 than they did with the Berkut.

The T-14 is very much intended to be a mass-production model and not just a technology demonstrator. The prototypes we've seen so far might be testing platforms, but the Russian government clearly intended to order these things in the thousands (and then later on switched to "hundreds").

There is nothing conceptually impossible or outright terrible about the T-14 Armata in broad strokes. I'm sure the US (or South Korea) could design, prototype and mass-produce a highly-automated next-generation MBT with an unmanned turret, a more powerful engine, all kinds of modern toys, and a heavy emphasis on crew survivability, if we (or the Koreans) wanted to. The technology is there, and it's not even particularly new: once you start operating remote weapons stations, you're already looking at the world through cameras instead of periscopes. You could make arguments based on doctrine (which is what the US army gets hung up on) and the philosophical debates between man vs. sensors, but the concept is workable. The problem with the T-14 is that it's Russia designing and producing it, and nothing is ever done efficiently there.

If LP had focused on the developmental side of the story, the fact that the Russians were writing technological checks their budget couldn't cash, the video would have been... repetitive, but alright. Russia has an enormous problem with corruption, and consolidating a good half of its military industry under a single corporation did not help that in the slightest because they essentially have no internal competition. Those two things are clear, and there's plenty to be said about them if you go digging through it. But instead of focusing on the clearly unhealthy state of Russian industry and procurement and its effects on the war they're currently waging, LazerPig decided to go ham on calling Russians functionally retarded.

After all, why make a nuanced argument when you can just call the other team names?

 

[Falcos_Commisar]

I'm still kinda too hung up on the "34 y/o fat mentally unstable alcoholic using internet clout to build a circle of his sexual preference" thing to debate the T-14 tbh. The grooming charge is coming.

I know some of those guys, they're their own brand of retarded. "Look at this Naval reserve change of command ceremony with a BLACK WOMAN, compared to the National Day Parade in Bejing. The US is a paper tiger! We'll lose carriers in the first five minutes!" Fuck off and go be impressed by a Spetznaz guy throwing an ax while doing a backflip because Greek warrior ethos or some fag shit.

They're also very adamant white men not join the military. They'd rather give up the biggest institution and path to social advancement white dudes have left and let the diversity hires have it. Yeah, great plan guys. That'll save the white race. The military has a lot of problems but that ain't gonna fix it.

A small amount of vocal ex-US SF or Marine /Army infantry guys on twitter LAP THAT SHIT UP LIKE CRAZY and they try and sell it.

See people like Clay Martin, Braxton McCoy, and a lot of their hanger ons and the like.

Just today Mr. Martin was essentially fellating the Boers and how awesome it is to vote on your CO and be able to essentially desert your unit with no consequences because you don't like your CO anymore.....

He also seemed to forget that the Boers FUCKING LOST, no matter how good of a rifle shot they were. You can't outshoot HE artillery fire, being outnumbered, and having the British garrison tour country and put everyone in camps. At least he did kinda make the distinction between Warriors and Soldiers while forgetting that soldiers win that battle every time....

In a big war, yeah, the USA or the UK or France WOULD probably lose a few or maybe more ships and the includes carriers and subs. That's how real life and real wars work.

There is nothing conceptually impossible or outright terrible about the T-14 Armata in broad strokes. I'm sure the US (or South Korea) could design, prototype and mass-produce a highly-automated next-generation MBT with an unmanned turret, a more powerful engine, all kinds of modern toys, and a heavy emphasis on crew survivability, if we (or the Koreans) wanted to. The technology is there, and it's not even particularly new: once you start operating remote weapons stations, you're already looking at the world through cameras instead of periscopes.

Except the advantages of a slightly lower silhouette vs say a K2 or Leclerc mean you can no longer do anything if something goes kinda wrong with the autoloader or gun (the Leclerc style autoloader CAN be manually loaded very slowly) and an Abrams for example has a plain Jane telescopic sight as a backup for the gunners main sight if necessary. That backup is unavailable on a robot turret. The UAE Army saw in Yemen that a random lucky hit to the gunners sight could make a Leclerc temporary useless as it doesn't have a backup for the gunner.

 

[Pedophobe]

The UAE Army saw in Yemen that a random lucky hit to the gunners sight could make a Leclerc temporary useless as it doesn't have a backup for the gunner.

You mean the Tomlinson Attack?

 

[Mr.Bucket]

I'm still kinda too hung up on the "34 y/o fat mentally unstable alcoholic using internet clout to build a circle of his sexual preference" thing to debate the T-14 tbh. The grooming charge is coming.

How *dare* you try to turn this military equipment spergout thread into something about some fat gay grooming youtuber.

 

[Corn Flakes]

Except the advantages of a slightly lower silhouette vs say a K2 or Leclerc mean you can no longer do anything if something goes kinda wrong with the autoloader or gun (the Leclerc style autoloader CAN be manually loaded very slowly) and an Abrams for example has a plain Jane telescopic sight as a backup oge the gunners main sight if necessary. That backup is unavailable on a robot turret. The UAE Army saw in Yemen that a random lucky hit to the gunners sight could make a Leclerc temporary useless as it doesn't have a backup oge the gunner.

The irony is that the T-14 is considerably taller than pretty much any Western MBT. Seriously, that thing is fucking huge, it's a rolling barn. While modern MBTs have the driver (the only hull crew) reclined and "cozy" (to use a The_Chieftain-ism), in the Armata all three crewmen seem to be sitting up a fair deal straighter and also side by side. So the hull is pretty tall to begin with. Add to it the remote MG station on the top and the damn thing is extra-tall. And with the crew sitting fully in front of the turret ring, with extra space behind them, the tank is also extra-long.

Seriously, if that thing weren't Russian it would be a goddamn best-seller in Texas. That's how unnecessarily large it is. The T-72 already looks small next to an Abrams, but it looks like a goddamn midget near a T-14.

Anyway, the concerns about the autoloader and sights are definitely valid, but my point wasn't that the T-14 as designed is a good tank. The apparent lack of any turret armor on any of the models we've seen so far speaks to that. The point is that nothing about its design is technologically unworkable. There are definitely tradeoffs, some of which we haven't been willing to make (hence why going up to the M1E3 instead of going with an unmanned turret like on the actual tech demo Abrams X), but those can still be debated depending on what you want to do with the vehicle in terms of both doctrine and end-user capabilities. It's like gas turbine engines back in the 70s and 80s: there were plenty of jokes about how thirsty those engines were but we made the decision to accept the compromise of lower gas mileage for all the engine's upsides. (And then we proceeded to gradually improve said gas mileage but that's neither here nor there.)

Speaking of gas turbines, imagine a bizarro universe where LazerPig is a vatnik. How much time and cope do you think he'd spend on the M1's engine, talking about how it drinks a whole oilfield's worth of gas every hour, and how it's "way too powerful" for the vehicle because it usually has a governor installed? Because you know he'd latch on to that shit too.

 

[AeroGavin Rossdale]

A small amount of vocal ex-US SF or Marine /Army infantry guys on twitter LAP THAT SHIT UP LIKE CRAZY and they try and sell it.

Anyone still talking about the GWOT in 2023 is a grifter or faggot. Shame. There was a moment around 2014 vet internet was fun. At least I can call O'Niel a faggot on twitter.

How *dare* you try to turn this military equipment spergout thread into something about some fat gay grooming youtuber.

I can do both. Just waiting for the conversation to steer into something I'm familiar with.

 

[Amerikaner Teddybär]

How *dare* you try to turn this military equipment spergout thread into something about some fat gay grooming youtuber.

I'm giving LP about 3 months until he gets into a groomer controversy.

A small amount of vocal ex-US SF or Marine /Army infantry guys on twitter LAP THAT SHIT UP LIKE CRAZY and they try and sell it.

Online Vet personalities are truly something, I can say that much.

 

[JJLiautaud]

A small amount of vocal ex-US SF or Marine /Army infantry guys on twitter LAP THAT SHIT UP LIKE CRAZY and they try and sell it.

See people like Clay Martin, Braxton McCoy, and a lot of their hanger ons and the like.

A lot of it is justifiable anger at the current US regime, what they view as massively declining standards in training, and increasing frustration with a military and VA system that actively goes out of its way to fuck over people.

 

[Serbian Peacekeepers]

I'm giving LP about 3 months until he gets into a groomer controversy.

I say "Until the end of the War in Ukraine +3 months"
I don't think he will get exposed while being a major NAFO figure, any one wanting to come forward would likely be scared off by the rabid cheems trying to go for the throat while calling the accuser a Russian Propagandist.

In my opinion, Sorta like with the T-14 shit, Pig is somewhat untouchable as long as NAFO is around, its easy to write off any detractor as either a Russian Propagandist or getting info from a Russian Propagandist, So while NAFO still exists in any major way, he won't be fucked with by anyone major. Now as soon as NAFO dies off, I expect we'll start seeing stuff about how Pig practices gay Satanism in his garage or how he groomed some retarded fan of his, but until then I won't bet on anything coming out about him.

How much you wanna bet now that I said this, some massive doc drops about him being the Rapist of Glasgow or something?

 

[WelperHelper99]

Anyway, the concerns about the autoloader and sights are definitely valid, but my point wasn't that the T-14 as designed is a good tank. The apparent lack of any turret armor on any of the models we've seen so far speaks to that. The point is that nothing about its design is technologically unworkable. There are definitely tradeoffs, some of which we haven't been willing to make (hence why going up to the M1A3 instead of going with an unmanned turret like on the actual tech demo Abrams X), but those can still be debated depending on what you want to do with the vehicle in terms of both doctrine and end-user capabilities.

If you mean the M1E3, then yes. And to be clear it's not the Abrams X. That IS a tech demo. This is most likely to lighten up the modern Abrams and integrate the upgrades previous versions had fully instead of just slapping them on like a bumper sticker. LP will be most displeased that it probably won't have a unmanned turret and remote controlled 30mm autocannon like he was sperging out about in the first T-14 video.

 

[Corn Flakes]

If you mean the M1E3, then yes.

I do, yes. Let me correct that while I still have time. I was reading about Shermans earlier yesterday and got my letters mixed up between M1E3 and M4A3.

And to be clear it's not the Abrams X. That IS a tech demo. This is most likely to lighten up the modern Abrams and integrate the upgrades previous versions had fully instead of just slapping them on like a bumper sticker. LP will be most displeased that it probably won't have a unmanned turret and remote controlled 30mm autocannon like he was sperging out about in the first T-14 video.

Indeed. The E3 is going to be an evolutionary step, not a revolutionary one. But as The_Chieftain says there, there are a lot of improvements to these systems that can be made using current technology instead of parts designed (and sometimes built) in the 80s and 90s. Technology marches on.

In a way, the M1E3 is our conceptual equivalent to the T-90 (as the Russians intended it, not as it eventually came out). Taking an old chassis and giving it a once-over with modern tech and trying to integrate it more organically than just "bolt another thing in there". It's just that we have the budget, the transparency, and the companies to do it right. Of course, I say that with full awareness that the M1E3 is probably going to be late and considerably more expensive than predicted. Because what military vehicle isn't?

So long as it's not military vaporware like the T-14 currently is, I guess. That tank is the Duke Nukem Forever of armored vehicles. By the time it's finally adopted as the Russian standard, it's going to be going up against railguns and orbital lasers.

 

[WelperHelper99]

I do, yes. Let me correct that while I still have time. I was reading about Shermans earlier yesterday and got my letters mixed up between M1E3 and M4A3.


Indeed. The E3 is going to be an evolutionary step, not a revolutionary one. But as The_Chieftain says there, there are a lot of improvements to these systems that can be made using current technology instead of parts designed (and sometimes built) in the 80s and 90s. Technology marches on.

In a way, the M1E3 is our conceptual equivalent to the T-90 (as the Russians intended it, not as it eventually came out). Taking an old chassis and giving it a once-over with modern tech and trying to integrate it more organically than just "bolt another thing in there". It's just that we have the budget, the transparency, and the companies to do it right. Of course, I say that with full awareness that the M1E3 is probably going to be late and considerably more expensive than predicted. Because what military vehicle isn't?

So long as it's not military vaporware like the T-14 currently is, I guess. That tank is the Duke Nukem Forever of armored vehicles. By the time it's finally adopted as the Russian standard, it's going to be going up against railguns and orbital lasers.

That is a major problem with western tanks, a lot of shit just gets the bolt on treatment instead of proper integration, vastly increasing weight and as such, less bridge/ terrain crossing capability.

Now Russia and the eastern bloc is guilty of this too, so much ERA lol, but to a lesser extent in that the tanks themselves can only handle so much extra weight before that shit just won't roll.

As much as LP talks soft factors, there's a reason old Soviet tanks have less armor and comforts: bridges were way weaker on their end. It's about logistics, the oldest story in the military handbook. But instead, he looks at the Challenger 2's armor and calls it the best. It is... at what it does. Same with the T90. Both had different design specs. And the same with the Abrams. Acting like there is one tank to rule them all is childish.

 

[AeroGavin Rossdale]

but until then I won't bet on anything coming out about him.

It's only a matter of time until he gets drunk enough. Weird we're waiting on a NATO psyop to end for an obvious sex pervert to get exposed.

A lot of it is justifiable anger at the current US regime, what they view as massively declining standards in training, and increasing frustration with a military and VA system that actively goes out of its way to fuck over people.

I can understand that, I really can, but they take it too far. And there's other problems. Remember when the heeb running BRC told the New York Times he fully understood the importance and weight of the image of St. Michael stepping on Satan, as he was given a St. Michael Medal by his Catholic squad mates, but then decided not to release that product because his glowie friends at Langley told him white supremacists made memes about it? Really putting the Judeo in Judaeo-Christian values. I don't trust anyone who went beyond E5 in a line company.

Anyway, I made this for some reason.

 

[Amerikaner Teddybär]

I say "Until the end of the War in Ukraine +3 months"
I don't think he will get exposed while being a major NAFO figure, any one wanting to come forward would likely be scared off by the rabid cheems trying to go for the throat while calling the accuser a Russian Propagandist.

In my opinion, Sorta like with the T-14 shit, Pig is somewhat untouchable as long as NAFO is around, its easy to write off any detractor as either a Russian Propagandist or getting info from a Russian Propagandist, So while NAFO still exists in any major way, he won't be fucked with by anyone major. Now as soon as NAFO dies off, I expect we'll start seeing stuff about how Pig practices gay Satanism in his garage or how he groomed some retarded fan of his, but until then I won't bet on anything coming out about him.

How much you wanna bet now that I said this, some massive doc drops about him being the Rapist of Glasgow or something?

I mean NAFO's not doing too hot rn, especially with them condoning warcrimes. Hell, even normies are starting to go against the war.

I think most NAFO Fellas are like the people of Black Lives Matter, they don't give a damn about those affected only good boy points. They'll move on eventually even if the war is ongoing.

Put me down for 40 on the bet though, guy looks like the definition of a sex pest

 

[Historical Strelkov]

The funniest thing is people sperging over tank specifications when those tanks get blown up by artillery shells and missiles no problem no matter what year they're made, who made them, or what they're made out of.