Diseased Open Source Software Community - it's about ethics in Code of Conducts

[Rusty Metal Skull Gun]

It’s all in line with the Linuxification of Windows, for lack of a better term. They didn’t just inherit technical changes doing that, but cultural ones too. Ballmer might not have liked the competition back in the day, but saner heads already started pivoting things internally a long time ago.

As early as the development of Windows Vista, they hired the inventor of Linux’s AppArmor LSM to design what became User Account Control, UIPI, Windows Service Hardening and Mandatory Integrity Control. Fast forward to around the time of Windows 10 and you’ve got Microsoft hiring Miguel De Icaza, a prominent GNOME 2 and Mono (.NET for Linux) developer, among others. As of Windows 11, the latest prominent addition is Lennart Poettering, best known for creating PulseAudio and systemd. Let’s not forget WSL is an ongoing thing too!

That’s only covering a small part of their overall business. There’s the Azure side which hired “developer advocates” with backgrounds in musical theatre (incredibly gay Twitch livestreams ensued) and the unintended consequences of acquiring the lolcow iceberg that is GitHub too…

I don't think it's because of that. Blackrock owns more than $100 billion of Microsoft shares, and they've pushing this ESG nonsense more than anybody.

 

[Mikoyan]

Gotta love how shit Exchange Online is. Admin UI for inbox rules? Too hard! Pronouns? #1 priority, must implement now, and of course like everything else in Exchange Online, it's fucking broken.

The documentation for this is peak clown world too. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/m...s/turn-pronouns-on-or-off?view=o365-worldwide
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How the hell is this even real.

Leaving aside that it's a troon thing, just evaluate this in a vacuum:

This is essentially an email header that you have to be warned to know your local laws before you use it. You'd think a header like this would be like "Terrorist-Financial-Donation-URL:".

 

[Computer Guardian]

A little refresher about the Hyprland CoC... it got shut down and approved, with devault activley promoting the punishment of wrongthing being the last message, though it seems nobody has checked for what this new CoC has to say.

as for the CoCk that was added....

Spoiler

TL;DR Hyprland is Pozzed now, much like many other Wayland related applications, compositors, ect.

 

[Perfectly Innocent]

A little refresher about the Hyprland CoC... it got shut down and approved, with devault activley promoting the punishment of wrongthing being the last message, though it seems nobody has checked for what this new CoC has to say

vaxerski castrated the end result, keeping the enforcement bits in all their verbosity but stripping out all the unwanted behavioural standards down to the point where it might as well have just said “don’t pick on idiots for being stupid”

My only disappointment is that they didn’t just say something like “we observe the Debian Code of Conduct version 1.0” and use that as their shield against the lunacy. It’s the very opposite of prohibitionist in its approach and will always stand proud in dealing with the harpies.

 

[teriyakiburns]

vaxerski castrated the end result, keeping the enforcement bits in all their verbosity but stripping out all the unwanted behavioural standards down to the point where it might as well have just said “don’t pick on idiots for being stupid”

Ahh, the classic oss solution: when presented with two competing sides, pick the option that makes them both mad.

 

[vanta pilled]

Jesus fucking christ, the last 15 years have showed me that the slippery slope is no longer a logical fallacy. I may have to move to BSD, at least until troons infest that space as well. At which point, I may just have to move to Temple OS.

 

[The Bovinian Derivative]

The Vaxry CoC thing is still rumbling on.

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What the fuck Drew.

 

[WhiteNight]

Jesus fucking christ, the last 15 years have showed me that the slippery slope is no longer a logical fallacy. I may have to move to BSD

BSD is not immune. Did you miss the controversy over the FreeBSD CoC in 2018? It was literally based on the Geek Feminism Wiki policy.

https://archive.ph/rMnfv

They ultimately replaced the Coc with a more normal one after a significant negative reaction, although for a while critics were smeared as privileged bigots.

Those who were around in Gamergate days will remember Randi Harper who called herself freebsdgirl, I think because she contributed five lines of code to the project or something. At least she's a true and honest woman; this was when it was ordinary feminists rather than troons who were the biggest threat.

Discussions:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16406946

https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/7xg4je

 

[Hall of Cost Payer]

They ultimately replaced the Coc with a more normal one after a significant negative reaction, although for a while critics were smeared as privileged bigots.

Fact is, they went back to a normal CoCk, instead of the gay faggot version. All normal people in such projects reject these faggoty versions. That's why Drew is such an autistic retard, because he's bullying a kid who does a project for fun into using something only tranny hardliners use.

 

[khaine]

As early as the development of Windows Vista, they hired the inventor of Linux’s AppArmor LSM to design what became User Account Control, UIPI, Windows Service Hardening and Mandatory Integrity Control. Fast forward to around the time of Windows 10 and you’ve got Microsoft hiring Miguel De Icaza, a prominent GNOME 2 and Mono (.NET for Linux) developer, among others. As of Windows 11, the latest prominent addition is Lennart Poettering, best known for creating PulseAudio and systemd. Let’s not forget WSL is an ongoing thing too!

So Microsoft is hiring all the retards out of RedHat? Finally, good news for Linux users

 

[hexatylenollia]

Has Drew DeVault always been such an obnoxious subversive little niggerfaggot? Jesus Christ this subhuman is insufferable, he makes low IQ brainlet identity politics his entire personality.

 

[Lady Ivlia de Nîmes]

Has Drew DeVault always been such an obnoxious subversive little niggerfaggot? Jesus Christ this subhuman is insufferable, he makes low IQ brainlet identity politics his entire personality.

In regards to his "social"/political takes, yes always.
IMO His software takes are surprisingly based tho. He sometimes takes sw minimalism too far into the realm of plan9/suckless, but it's usually still good enough (see sourcehut, probably hare too and lets see what'll become of his microkernel os).

 

[UERISIMILITUDO]

In regards to his "social"/political takes, yes always.
IMO His software takes are surprisingly based tho. He sometimes takes sw minimalism too far into the realm of plan9/suckless, but it's usually still good enough (see sourcehut, probably hare too and lets see what'll become of his microkernel os).

He doesn't believe in simple things such as metaprogramming, the act of automating automation. His software takes are limited to being a smug UNIX weenie, now with added gender cult flavour. His operating system is a UNIX clone and nothing more. Here's an article about how most programming languages aren't optimized for useless programs:
https://drewdevault.com/2020/01/04/Slow.html (archive)

Note his minimal program has no error checking, even though the write system call can fail to work however many times for no good reason. He just ignores this.

Here he's slobbering over the C language, calling it the most important language to ever exist:
https://drewdevault.com/2020/03/03/Abiopause.html (archive)

The existence of ALGOL, which he ignores, serves as a simple counterexample. As far as he cares, programmers were banging sticks and stones together before the 1970s.

This article is so stupid merely reading it reveals as much, and I normally wouldn't mention it, but I noticed he used anime for his example therein:
https://drewdevault.com/2019/02/18/Generics-arent-ready-for-Go.html (archive)

Hare uses the C language hack of having variable data at the end of a record, and he honestly believe this to be a good solution. For reference, Ada has had generics since 1983.

The only reason he gets anything done is because he's one of those people who will just write and write and write without any thought towards improving the tools he's using.

Still, I used to be on the fence as to whether he deserves a thread or not; his worst crimes aren't programming opinions, but malicious faggotry.

 

[Rusty Metal Skull Gun]

Note his minimal program has no error checking, even though the write system call can fail to work however many times for no good reason. He just ignores this.

What good is error-checking if writing to the console fails? What exactly are you supposed to do?

Here he's slobbering over the C language, calling it the most important language to ever exist:
https://drewdevault.com/2020/03/03/Abiopause.html (archive)

That's not what he says at all. "In the world of software, the C programming language clearly stands out as the single most important and influential programming language." That's not at all a ridiculous thing to say.

 

[Hồ Chí Minh]

Has Drew DeVault always been such an obnoxious subversive little niggerfaggot? Jesus Christ this subhuman is insufferable, he makes low IQ brainlet identity politics his entire personality.

He wasn't this political before, but his attitude has always been the same. As someone else mentioned earlier:

Drew seems to have a very simplistic view of the world: everybody who disagrees with him is completely wrong, there's no nuance.

Which is pretty accurate, on both political topics and technical topics.

It's not surprise he's been banned from a number of platforms and that quite a large section of the programmer community really hates him, because as soon as you disagree with him too hard he will go on a rampage and start insulting you.

His insistence on the CoC is funny as Drew's conduct is exactly the sort of thing that CoCs tend to forbid.

 

[DavidS877]

What good is error-checking if writing to the console fails? What exactly are you supposed to do?

Write an error message to the console, obviously.

Also, if read() returns 0 bytes, just read() again immediately.

 

[UERISIMILITUDO]

What good is error-checking if writing to the console fails? What exactly are you supposed to do?

The least he could do is not throw away the error code. The pernicious EINTR nonsense could strike. Perhaps worst, the call could partially succeed; he doesn't handle that case either. Now in all fairness, I sincerely doubt this program will ever have serious issues; it's very likely that writing data smaller than a page size has special considerations, compared to the general case, but he never mentions this. UNIX programmers hate mentioning failure cases, and prefer to ignore them so that their programs look nicer. That's my point.

That's not at all a ridiculous thing to say.

I disagree. To a fanatic like Drew, other systems don't matter. A UNIX fanatic loves to point out the popularity of UNIX, and entirely ignore the popularity of, say, MicroSoft Windows or IBM mainframes, neither of which use the C language like UNIX, except to allow for C language software. I may be wrong about the extent to which MicroSoft Windows uses it. Not a lot of COBOL software gets shared in hacker circles, so it may as well be invisible to him.

Anyway, my point is that he's a dick sucker, and he's started to switch from UNIX dick to girl dick.

 

[306h4Ge5eJUJ]

What good is error-checking if writing to the console fails? What exactly are you supposed to do?

The program writes to stdout, which need not be the same as stderr or even a console.

 

[Lady Ivlia de Nîmes]

His operating system is a UNIX clone and nothing more.

Given the popularity of unix(-like) OSs over the last semicentury I see nothing wrong that. It also appears to me from https://drewdevault.com/2023/08/09/2023-08-09-Hello-from-Ares.html (archive) that he is attempting do build a microkernel which the traditional UNIX wasn't (at least not comparable what one would need to build a microkernel for modern architectures compared to the pdp) also I just like microkernels

Here he's slobbering over the C language, calling it the most important language to ever exist

seems like a valid take to me. Yes I guess you could argue that C wouldn't exist without ALGOL and BCPL but if you give a novice programmer that only learned java(script) or python time to learn C or ALGOL, chances are C is a lot simpler to pick up than ALGOL. And thats just syntax. The points Drew made, like the C ABI and calling conventions being usable from practical any language also seem perfectly reasonable to me.

Hare uses the C language hack of having variable data at the end of a record, and he honestly believe this to be a good solution. For reference, Ada has had generics since 1983.

Not defending his Go takes here because I haven't used go, but often generics in compiled languages (C++ Templates / Rust) have the issue that they increase the amount of code in the binary due to each generic function/method being included for each non-generic type that it touches. This also obv. causes that they can't really be dynamically linked since it's not possible to just provide a declaration. GLib/Java generics seem a lot more sensible due to just needing a single definition for all types by reducing them to their lowest denominator (typically void* / Object).

Still, I used to be on the fence as to whether he deserves a thread or not; his worst crimes aren't programming opinions, but malicious faggotry.

yes. I'd be looking forward to a thread, but it might be a bit overkill. Because besides his unforgivable hyprland faggotry and his anti RMS/GNU propaganda has he actually done anything threadworthy?

 

[Rusty Metal Skull Gun]

I disagree. To a fanatic like Drew, other systems don't matter. A UNIX fanatic loves to point out the popularity of UNIX, and entirely ignore the popularity of, say, MicroSoft Windows or IBM mainframes, neither of which use the C language like UNIX, except to allow for C language software. I may be wrong about the extent to which MicroSoft Windows uses it. Not a lot of COBOL software gets shared in hacker circles, so it may as well be invisible to him.

Again, you're misrepresenting him. He says enough crazy shit without you having to make stuff up. He didn't say things other than C don't matter, he said that C is the most important.

Windows is written almost entirely in C and C++, with smatterings of C# for some GUI stuff. So yes, C is as important for Windows as it is for Linux.