The Mary Sue/Gary Stu Character Hate Thread - "Teehee, I'm so perfect!"

I would say Gojo but he's finally dead.
So I'll just say every strong independent female lead in western media for the past ten years.
The cool thing about Gojo is that his character is built as a Mary sue and acknowledged as one.

He's the child of prophecy, strong beautiful and op.
His character flaw is he's a Mary sue.

He can't relate with Geto. Gojo's existence is treated as a plague by the narrative and the world around him.

The author had to bench him because he was too strong and curses got stronger the moment he was born.
 
The cool thing about Gojo is that his character is built as a Mary sue and acknowledged as one.

He's the child of prophecy, strong beautiful and op.
His character flaw is he's a Mary sue.

He can't relate with Geto. Gojo's existence is treated as a plague by the narrative and the world around him.

The author had to bench him because he was too strong and curses got stronger the moment he was born.
yeah, this is what everyone likes to call very poorly thought writing
trying to make it part of the narrative is cope because gojo added absolutely nothing to it when you really think about it
sukuna fills more or less the same role and doesn't feel like a plot device because of his old restrictions
 
IMO people over complicate Mary Sue. For me there are 3 fundamental things you need.
1.) Must be beloved by everyone important (no ones cares if ACKTUALLY NOT MARY SUE! THE JANITOR IN THE BACKGROUND SECRETLY HATES THEM PER WORD OF GOD!) for no explicable reason, and must maintain this status regardless of if it makes any sense.
2.) Must be better than everyone at [insert thing they're good at]. Again no explanation or token non-explanation for this.
3.) Must never personally lose a engagement. They can suffer large scale set backs as part of a group but in a one on one engagement they will always come out on top. I'm talking even if they definitively lose, they somehow are actually now ahead of their opponent, even if it is in the most bullshit nonsense way.

Following these criteria we have Pure Mary Sues

John Kramer (Jigsaw)
Rey Palpatine
Wesley Crusher
Abeloth is a villain sue
Wakanda as a nation

Conditional Mary Sues

Wolverine & Batman under bad writers (This is kind of cheating because you can blame bad writers for anything but these two get it consistently)
Billy Butcher from The Boys, in the same vein many would argue Garth Ennis' Punisher (I would argue against at least Punisher due to almost everyone in universe hating both. It's undeniable though that the universe as a whole schemes to constantly validate these guys)
Pre MtmtE Drift from OG IDW Transformers
Ultra Marines & Grey Knights under the pen of The Spiritual Liege
Post Rebels Ahsoka Tano

Basically what I'm saying is pure consistent no matter what Sue's are a rare breed and require serious fucking delusion or purposeful fuckery. Usually Sue's spring from incompetent writers on specific projects, arcs, being forced to write characters they don't know, etc...
The issue with this old style of Sue definition is that a lot of modern writers know it and will try to technically not apply to those rules, while still having a Sue in spirit.

For me the simple definition of a Sue is that he/she is a main character that has ridiculous ability without any drawback that cultivating this ability would require in real life, and that ability is overpowered to an insane degree above any other ability. While character relations usually play a role, it's very easy to argue a character isn't a Sue because sone strawmen don't like it.

Using this, it's easy to compare something like Gojo vs. All Might. The former is basically invulnerable and omnipotent, while the latter needed multiple generations to get to his power level, and even then he starts the story half dead.
 
The issue with this old style of Sue definition is that a lot of modern writers know it and will try to technically not apply to those rules, while still having a Sue in spirit.
Mary Sue has evolved beyond its original meaning. Frankly, the disagreements in this thread so far are from definition autism, as if everything has to be exactly like the original Mary Sue to be called one. The unwarranted omnicompetence and focus is more common today than the worship part, when the character isn't female, but the lack of the worship somehow means the other elements are not sue-ish. TV Tropes, as much as I roll my eyes at that den of autists, wisely seperated the Mary Sue trope into several different definitions because they all still share incredibly common and annoying/retarded traits.

To further use Gojo as an example, people not liking him doesn't change all the other shit about him basically being the setting's Jesus Christ before he gets turned into a two piece meal.
 
To further use Gojo as an example, people not liking him doesn't change all the other shit about him basically being the setting's Jesus Christ before he gets turned into a two piece meal.
You can make god tier characters in your cast without making them too annoying. OPM and Mob did it by making the characters have intelligence/personal issues, or in Re;Zero having them be a side character that's basically never around when he is actually needed. But Gojo is central to the plot more than the cast itself, and people disliking him is more of an informed trait.
 
You can make god tier characters in your cast without making them too annoying. OPM and Mob did it by making the characters have intelligence/personal issues, or in Re;Zero having them be a side character that's basically never around when he is actually needed. But Gojo is central to the plot more than the cast itself, and people disliking him is more of an informed trait.
If you remove Gojo though, what really changes? I mean, he's removed more than half of the time. The entire story would flow better if he just didn't exist. Unironically a plot tumor.
Literal gods in most settings and fiction are restricted because they would end all conflict and potential stories if they could. They can either provide background or act as deus ex machina. Gojo's entire existence seems to be to jerk himself off before dying.
 
You can make god tier characters in your cast without making them too annoying. OPM and Mob did it by making the characters have intelligence/personal issues, or in Re;Zero having them be a side character that's basically never around when he is actually needed. But Gojo is central to the plot more than the cast itself, and people disliking him is more of an informed trait.
With Mob too he works because he's very strong with his psychic powers but he's weak in his physical body at the beginning and he also has a moral code that makes him really vulnerable where he sometimes gets his ass kicked in fights, and has to push his limits when push comes to shove.
 
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With Mob too he works because he's very strong with his psychic powers but he's weak in his physical body at the beginning and he also has a moral code that makes him really vulnerable where he sometimes gets his ass kicked in fights, and has to push his limits when push comes to shove.
Mob's story doesn't really revolve around fights or autistic power levels but people and the idea of being special. His power isn't meant to define him and the very first major conflict ends with him breaking down over being unable to change. In a more common plot, he would be. The ending isn't him against some world-ending enemy but his own anxiety. It's great.
 
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If you remove Gojo though, what really changes? I mean, he's removed more than half of the time. The entire story would flow better if he just didn't exist. Unironically a plot tumor.
Literal gods in most settings and fiction are restricted because they would end all conflict and potential stories if they could. They can either provide background or act as deus ex machina. Gojo's entire existence seems to be to jerk himself off before dying.
It's a convoluted "hero needs to get rid Sukuna, Sukuna can only be killed by Gojo, villains want to jill Gojo for an entirely unrelated reason" with an added needing to collect all the fingers. They could have replaced Gojo with some ritual rather than a literal "trust me bro, you won't cause the apocalypse".
 
It's a convoluted "hero needs to get rid Sukuna, Sukuna can only be killed by Gojo, villains want to jill Gojo for an entirely unrelated reason" with an added needing to collect all the fingers. They could have replaced Gojo with some ritual rather than a literal "trust me bro, you won't cause the apocalypse".
Just seems like Gege wanted to make a super powerful Kakashi except he forgot the part where Kakashi was depressed as fuck and wanted to die for his village like everyone else he loved did.
 
Mob's story doesn't really revolve around fights or autistic power levels but people and the idea of being special. His power isn't meant to define him and the very first major conflict ends with him breaking down over being unable to change. In a more common plot, he would be. The ending isn't him against some world-ending enemy but his own anxiety. It's great.
Yeah Mob’s story is great since even after a threat that would be a typical final boss in a shounen, there are still things he has to resolve as life goes on. As you said his own anxieties are his final obstacle
 
Just seems like Gege wanted to make a super powerful Kakashi except he forgot the part where Kakashi was depressed as fuck and wanted to die for his village like everyone else he loved did.
The cool thing about Kakashi is not only his design, but that he starts looking really strong, only to immediately show that he is a small fish once the first mission turns into a clusterfuck. Kakashi builds the setting, while Gojo limits it.
 
Susie Derkins from Calvin and Hobbes. She is unusually smart for her age. We’re supposed to feel sympathy for her when Calvin bullies her because we’re supposed to hate Calvin (even though Calvin is more relatable).
 
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There definitely is something about Mary Sue's in revivals of past franchises.

I've seen it twice with Digimon
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In Digimon tri. the new character, Meiko, has a super special digimon, being the reincarnation of the last boss in the first season. Her Digimon is a blatant copy of an already existing Digimon (Tailmon) where there is nonsense of originality in her design, ad they're just a Nyaromon, plotmon, and Tailmon redesigned that belongs to Hikari. b90be3683c4f40aa4184123e78eb4fa8.jpeg

She also takes the place of previous characters (The missing 02 kids) and her simple problems cause the Adventure cast to completely ignore that they're missing. Once it's found out that her partner is causing all the problems they decide it's too much to kill her, even though in 02 they already killed a corrupted partner (Wallace's chocomon) and were willing to kill Agumon (a main character) if it meant saving him. They also stop every time she has a breakdown to assure her everything is fine, and these were the same group of kids who had no problem slapping one another to get through to them

Like there are plenty of ffnet stories that follow this format, even trying to

And spoilers for the new 02 movie
The new boy is arguably tbe biggest Mary Sue in all of Digimon. He's the reason everyone has a partner and he made a wish for everyone to have a Digimon. His backstory is litterally he was abused by father and was given a Digimon that grants wishes. Then his backstory flashback takes up half the screentime from a cast thats been screwed out of much of any since 2015.

So far these are just summarized plot points but it seems Digimon tried oneuping Meiko in having the biggest Marr sue in the franchise.
 
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