2023 Israel-Palestine Armed Conflict

So in addition to the "right of return" to seize land and murder people in Israel proper, they were supposed to be allowed to vote in Israeli elections, despite being citizens of a "palestinian" nation [not Jordan, the original "second state"]?

They have an interesting concept of statehood.
Israelis have an interesting concept of statehood if they think a bunch of towns connected by small corridors banned from having a military whose foreign policy would be entirely controlled by another state counts as an independent state.
 
I don't think we have to fully go to war, but we do have to retrieve them. You should care if people think they can kill Americans with impunity.
There are also American citizens in Gaza. Source.
1697050401007.png
also: testimony from Americans in Gaza
 
Because all of the offered two state solutions are just a way for Israel to take complete control over the area while also making sure Palestinians can't vote.
I'm afraid you're about to see what Israel "taking complete control over the area while also making sure Palestinians can't vote" really looks like in practice.
 
Yeah I am sure this wont backfire.

1697050516417.png
1697050528618.png
1697050577116.png


The archive seems broken so I went ahead and screenshotted everything current as of 10/11/23 :(

1697051317556.png
1697051348033.png
1697051377692.png

1697051444585.png

The leadership of Stanford Students for Justice in Palestine published the following statement: https://stanforddaily.com/2023/10/10/from-the-community-stanford-students-for-justice-in-palestine/


Stanford Students for Justice in Palestine: To the Stanford community and concerned individuals everywhere.


We, the members of Stanford Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP), feel compelled to address the recent and ongoing injustices faced by the Palestinian people. As the world witnesses the atrocities committed in Palestine, it becomes increasingly clear that these events are not isolated incidents, but rather part of the protracted struggle against settler-colonial oppression. The media’s depiction of Saturday’s resistance as a one-off event is fundamentally reductionist: no conversation about Palestine can be conducted without the context of the decades of systematic oppression, discrimination and violence the Palestinian people have faced.


Israel currently places a “land, water and air” siege on the Gaza Strip. Regularly cutting off water and electricity, Israel vindictively rules and occupies the Gaza Strip. Israel also regularly forces Palestinian produce to spoil rather than allowing it to pass through checkpoints to where it can be sold. Israel’s choice to lay siege to Gaza has caused Gaza to become an “open-air prison,” a term being used by the Human Rights Watch. These conditions should provoke all of us to take action and fight for safety in the world.


We are embarrassed to live in a world that tolerates this level of consistent, systematic and unrelenting violence. The fact that people can be treated like this in the 21st century is a stain on our history.


Palestinians, like all peoples, have the legitimate right to resist occupation, apartheid and systemic injustice. Saturday’s events underscore the structural violence, displacement and daily hardships Palestinians have faced for decades under a regime that seeks to undermine their basic human rights and dignity. It is essential for us as an academic community and as global citizens to recognize the roots of this conflict. While it might be easy for some to view the issue as a distant geopolitical dispute, the reality is far simpler. Western media will hail the Ukrainians who defend their homeland as valiant heroes; however, there is a distinct double standard at play when it comes to the resistance of the Palestinian people against the settler colonialists of Israel.


Furthermore, while Palestinian resistance is legal under international law, Israel’s breathtakingly violent actions [are](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gciv-1949/article-33#:~:text=12 August 1949.-,Article 33 - Individual responsibility%2C collective penalties%2C pillage%2C reprisals,or of terrorism are prohibited.) illegal collective punishment under the Geneva Convention. For example, Israel’s destruction of Palestine Tower, a media and residential building, constitutes a war crime, since news and civilians are not legitimate military targets under U.N. law.


At its core, this message is about an oppressed population striving for equality, freedom and self-determination in the face of systemic subjugation. We are dismayed by the fact that institutions like Stanford, which proclaim values of justice, equality and human rights, continue to be entangled with companies and entities that directly or indirectly support the machinery of this oppression. Our association with such entities not only undermines our collective values but also tacitly condones the perpetuation of this injustice. Furthermore, between 2008 and 2020, Palestinians have endured 96% of the total casualties resulting from the conflict, demonstrating the one-sided nature of the situation.


We stand firmly with the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign, echoing their call for immediate action to cease all military, security and technological collaboration with those implicated in the ongoing colonization of Palestine. We also demand an end to any partnerships with companies that actively participate in the dispossession of Palestinians. We recognize the strength and resilience of the Palestinian people, who, despite facing overwhelming odds, continue to rise and assert their undeniable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Their resistance is not just a testament to their spirit but also a reminder of the universality of the human desire for justice and freedom. Injustice anywhere hurts all of us. The fact that Palestinians must endure such brutal conditions is an embarrassment to the modern human condition. The only thing that Israeli apartheid has succeeded in doing is creating violence and misery, which can be heard all around the world.


In solidarity with the Palestinian cause, we call upon the Stanford community and individuals everywhere to educate themselves, raise awareness and actively challenge complicity in this system of oppression.


Justice for Palestine is justice for all.


The leadership of Stanford Students for Justice in Palestine consists of:


  • Lara Hafez, 2024
  • Ronnie Hafez, 2025 (Stanford Anti-Islamophobia Teaching Fellow)

Swarthmore Students for Justice in Palestine released the following statement:


<aside> 🚨 REQUEST: WHO ARE THE OFFICERS OF SWARTHMORE SJP?


Send tips to: terrorlistsubmissions@protonmail.com. Anonymity guaranteed.


</aside>


Swarthmore Students for Justice in Palestine: In Solidarity with the Palestinian Resistance


Swarthmore Students for Justice in Palestine affirms its resolute solidarity with Palestinians resisting the brutal Zionist state. Since early Saturday morning, Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank have valiantly confronted the imperial apparatus that has constricted their livelihoods for the past seventy-five years. In an unprecedented violation of Zionist intelligence and military rule, the resistance broke its people out of the open-air prison that is the Gaza Strip; many Palestinians saw their ancestral homelands in what is now referred to as “1948 lands,” or land taken during the Nakba, for the first time in nearly a century. Over 50% of Gaza’s population is children. Most have never stopped outside the imperialist prison walls that encage their homes. The Zionist government has replied to this legitimate resistance with its routine, unconscionable violence. Swarthmore Students for Justice in Palestine enshrines the right of the Palestinian people to resist the Zionist regime by any means necessary and honors the martyrs who have sacrificed their lives for liberation. We call on all Swarthmore community members to unite in solidarity with the plight of the oppressed and confront the dishonest, racist tropes that view resistance as barbaric and uncivilized only when it is exerted by indigenous peoples.


The Zionist regime’s murderous occupation has rendered a Palestinian response as inevitable as it is justified. Palestinians have, once again, under the most trying circumstances, offered a heroic example for those struggling toward global liberation. The Zionist regime has been unabashedly blockading Gaza since 2007; it has turned the narrow strip into an unlivable prison for two million Palestinians and a shooting gallery where Zionists test their world-class weaponry on us. Numerous reports show Zionist poisoning of Palestinian water and food supplies, extreme sexual abuse against men, women, and children, and destruction to levels such that Gazans find themselves in a consistent cycle of construction, investment, and enforced destruction. That our Palestinian comrades offer accounts of such brutal oppression renders a liberation struggle necessary. The Palestinian resistance is a response to the Zionist Entity’s state terrorism that has left over two million of our people languishing under starvation and terror. We condemn the inhumanity of the Zionist entity that promotes such evils in the ancestral homeland of Palestine.


On Monday, the Zionist entity declared a complete siege and “total war” on Gaza as it relentlessly bombarded the coastal enclave for the third consecutive day, abhorrently describing its residents as “human animals.” Nearly 700 Palestinians were martyred in the Zionist strikes by air, sea, and land. The Zionist forces pursued further regional declaration, moving tanks and soldiers to the border with Lebanon. At least 18 Palestinians in the West Bank have been martyred since Saturday. Zionist leaders continue to vow war crimes with genocidal language. As our Palestinian comrades in Gaza exhumed victims of Zionist strikes from the rubble, the Zionist defense minister cut food, water, and fuel supplies to the region; his very ability to do so offers adequate confirmation of the gross power differential at play.


The resistance employed by Palestinian factions represents revolutionary history. With them, we usher in a new era of our struggle. The resistance defies every colonial tool weaponized against us, and we hold our martyrs in glory. They have paid the ultimate sacrifice for our liberation. May their memories continue to inspire the resistance. Students for Justice in Palestine reiterate that decolonization is far from metaphor confined to the classroom. It is a material reality in which the colonized pursue the repatriation of indigenous land and life. Every colonized and oppressed people enjoys the right to resist; our bodies of international law, though they too often fail us, enshrine such a liberty.


At this historical moment, we look to valiant liberation struggles worldwide. In Algeria, Haiti, South Africa, and beyond, colonized people took arms against their colonizers in victory. They, too, were demeaned as “uncivilized,” “savages,” and “terrorists.” We refuse such abject misnomers. We maintain that every settler is an aggressive occupier, even as they sit comfortably in their stolen homes. There exists only a colonizer and colonized, an oppressed and an oppressor. To resist is to survive, and it is our right.


Swarthmore Students for Justice in Palestine maintains unwavering support for our people’s resistance. Every hopeful act draws us closer on the path of national—and, as such, global—liberation of our homeland(s). We refuse capitulation to the colonizer and its sympathizers. We reiterate the universal call to join us in solidarity with the liberation movement.


We will see a liberated Palestine within our lifetimes. The Zionist entity will fall. We will return to our homes again.


Swarthmore Students for Justice in Palestine

GMU Students for Justice in Palestine released the following statement: “Every martyr must be mourned… every Palestinian is a civilian even if they hold arms.”


Jenin Chanaa, Minister of Labor


Daniel Cardona, Officer


Khalil Elayan, Officer


Khaled Mohammed Al-Shaar, Treasurer


Anna Antonio-Vila, Officer


Hanan Yousif, Vice-President


Nada Chanaa, Minister of Internal Affairs

1697051684557.png

1697051718414.png
1697051745300.png

1697051892691.png

1697051923746.png

1697051949615.png


1697051989353.png
October 9th, 2023


Columbia Students for Justice in Palestine stands in full solidarity with Palestinian resistance against over 75 years of Israeli settler-colonialism and apartheid. Palestinians have been subjected to the ****longest ongoing military occupation in modern history and their right to resist is enshrined in international law.


Yesterday was an unprecedented historic moment for the Palestinians of Gaza, who tore through the wall that has been suffocating them in one of the most densely-populated areas on Earth for the past 16 years – an open-air prison blockaded by Israeli soldiers via land, air, and sea. Despite the odds against them, Palestinians launched a counter-offensive against their settler-colonial oppressor – which receives billions of US dollars annually in military aid and possesses one of the world’s most robust surveillance and security apparatuses. Any omission of this context – any rhetoric of “an unprovoked Palestinian attack” – is shamefully misleading. We invite you to look into the detailed Human Rights Watch, B’tselem, and Amnesty International reports on Israeli apartheid.


To those who are now calling for peace, we ask: where were you during the Great March of Return in 2018, when Palestinians in Gaza peacefully protested and were shot dead by the [hundreds](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/3/30/gazas-great-march-of-return-protests-explained#:~:text=The demonstrations started on March,according to Gaza's health ministry.)? Where were you when Israel indiscriminately bombed Palestinian civilians in Gaza in 2008, 2012, 2014, 2021, and 2022? Where were you this year, when Israel killed over 220 Palestinians over the past nine months alone? Where were you as settlers kicked people out of their homes, arbitrarily imprisoned children without trial, and brutally oppressed an entire population?


You are not asking for peace. You are asking for quiet submission to systemic violence.


As long as you perpetuate this narrative, fighting will continue to break out until justice is achieved. Because nothing else is working.


As Columbia students, our classes regularly discuss the inevitability of resistance as part of the struggle for decolonization. We study under renowned scholars who denounce the fact that the media requires oppressed peoples to be “perfect victims” in order to deserve sympathy. Yet not only does our institution neglect to align its actions with its ostensible values, but it actively normalizes Israeli apartheid and subjugation of Palestinians.


We wholeheartedly condemn the email sent by General Studies Dean Lisa Rosen-Metsch on October 8th that exclusively sympathized with Israeli soldiers who uphold the occupation, obfuscated Palestinian resistance as “terrorism,” and refused to acknowledge any of the hundreds of Palestinian casualties in the past 48 hours – let alone the overall context of the past 75 years.


We condemn the October 7th email from Barnard Dean Leslie Grinage that extended support to those “affected by the violence and loss of life in Israel” without even mentioning Palestinian suffering once.


We condemn ****the fact that Columbia uses our endowment to invest in Israeli companies that violate international law and profit off of the construction of illegal settlements on Palestinian land.


*We condemn *****that former President Lee Bollinger unilaterally and anti-democratically overturned a student referendum to divest from these companies in 2020.


*And we condemn *Columbia initiatives that normalize apartheid by sending students to the region when Palestinian members of our university community are barred from doing the same – from the 2020 dual-degree program.) with Tel Aviv University, to the recently announced Global Center in Tel Aviv.


We call upon newly inaugurated President Minouche Shafik to step up and divest from Israeli apartheid, end the dual degree program with Tel Aviv University, and cancel the opening of the Tel Aviv Global Center. We call upon our administration as a whole to start verbally acknowledging Palestinian existence and humanity.


Columbia students and affiliates, we invite you to sign this open letter and to join us at 4:30pm on Thursday, October 12th at the Low Library Steps to protest our university’s complicity in Palestinian oppression. We further request that you individually email our administration to call out their hypocritical statements and blatant disregard for Palestinian trauma. It is on us to change the status quo and achieve justice for true, lasting peace: continue raising awareness, pressuring our university, and expressing solidarity. See you Thursday.


Signed,


Columbia Students for Justice in Palestine


Co-signed,


Columbia Jewish Voice for Peace


Four protest demands from Columbia University:


  1. Address Palestinian humanity and existence. Correct and apologize for the emails sent by Columbia administration that support Israel while ignoring — and neglecting to even name — Palestinians.
  2. Divest from companies profiting from Israeli apartheid, noting that both former Columbia and Barnard presidents unilaterally & anti-democratically ignored the student body referendums to divest in 2020.
  3. Cancel the opening of the Tel Aviv Global Center, noting that Palestinian affiliates of Columbia would be restricted from access to this program given Israel’s apartheid policies, and further noting that this therefore violates Columbia’s very own non-discrimination policy.
  4. Cease the dual-degree partnership with Tel Aviv University, for the same reason.

“Despite the odds against them, Palestinians launched a counter-offensive against their settler-colonial oppressor”
 

Attachments

  • 1697052026834.png
    1697052026834.png
    155.4 KB · Views: 77
Last edited:
Israelis have an interesting concept of statehood if they think a bunch of towns connected by small corridors banned from having a military whose foreign policy would be entirely controlled by another state counts as an independent state.
There are consequences to refusing to live in peace when you have the opportunity, taking up arms with an invading force [with the stated objective of entirely obliterating an entire nation of people and driving them into the sea] and - after losing - spending nearly a century as a squatter and murdering your neighbors.

It's not a great deal, sure... but it's better than they deserve.
 
View attachment 5404405

Looks solid enough to me, no corridor towns
Ehhhhh.... That map shows the general area of the West Bank, the settlements, the Jordan River Valley, etc., but it doesn't delineate between the various "zones" of authority or show the checkpoints that people have to go through if they want to move between them. Though, taking a second look at it the land swap proposal doesn't seem especially unfair.
1697051019671.png
I forget how "authority" is determined in these areas... I believe Area A is subject to full IDF control, B is divided between the IDF and the Palestinian Authority and C is total PA control... The checkpoints keep people from moving easily between the various areas and, if I'm not mistaken, one of the conditions of both the 2000 and 2008 offers had the checkpoints remaining, at least in some form, and administered by Israel proper - though the Palestinian Authority would have had full control over everything not in yellow.

I suspect that state of affairs would have been negotiated away after a time and there would have been a gradual loosening of restrictions on travel between the PA-controlled West Bank and Israel proper had the Hashemite leftovers and their migrant cousins accepted the deal and made an attempt to be good neighbors, but we'll never know.
 
Last edited:
Ehhhhh.... That map shows the general area of the West Bank, the settlements, the Jordan River Valley, etc., but it doesn't delineate between the various "zones" of authority or show the checkpoints that people have to go through if they want to move between them.
View attachment 5404432
I forget how "authority" is determined in these areas... I believe Area A is subject to full IDF control, B is divided between the IDF and the Palestinian Authority and C is total PA control... The checkpoints keep people from moving easily between the various areas and, if I'm not mistaken, one of the conditions of both the 2000 and 2008 offers had the checkpoints remaining, at least in some form, and administered by Israel proper - though the Palestinian Authority would have had full control over everything not in yellow.

I suspect that state of affairs would have been negotiated away after a time had the Hashemite leftovers and their migrant cousins accepted the deal and made an attempt to be good neighbors, but we'll never know.
I think it's the opposite, I've seen other maps and on them the area labeled "C" on this map is designated as full Israeli control
 
Ehhhhh.... That map shows the general area of the West Bank, the settlements, the Jordan River Valley, etc., but it doesn't delineate between the various "zones" of authority or show the checkpoints that people have to go through if they want to move between them.
View attachment 5404432
I forget how "authority" is determined in these areas... I believe Area A is subject to full IDF control, B is divided between the IDF and the Palestinian Authority and C is total PA control... The checkpoints keep people from moving easily between the various areas and, if I'm not mistaken, one of the conditions of both the 2000 and 2008 offers had the checkpoints remaining, at least in some form, and administered by Israel proper - though the Palestinian Authority would have had full control over everything not in yellow.

I suspect that state of affairs would have been negotiated away after a time had the Hashemite leftovers and their migrant cousins accepted the deal and made an attempt to be good neighbors, but we'll never know.
I know, this was the 2008 Israeli proposed peace deal map that Abbas refused. It's not the normal map with areas a b c and so on
 
its very popular to bitch and moan about muh imperialists borders, muh sykes-picot, etc, because of course west bad, but when you actually look at the underlying situation in detail, there really is no proper solution that would have been any better in the big picture. 99% of the complaints about "arbitrarily drawn borders" usually boil down to "they should have given my side more and the other side less!" bitching from one of the involved parties.
Oh 100%. There would have been zero ways to divvy up that land that would have made everyone involved happy. Motherfuckers have been fighting in that region since humanity had a way of recording history and probably long before that too.
How the fuck are you not an antisemite when you're not only happy to see Jews dying, but you want to destroy a state that was founded mainly by Holocaust victims?
You must be fortunate to not know too many hardcore western far lefties. Get the average prog talking about Israel and after a while they'll say shit that would make a skinhead or a muslim extremist tell them to tone it down.
I don't speak Arabic or Hebrew so I'm taking the captions with a grain of salt. There seem to be native speakers of both in the thread, perhaps someone can give a legit translation, or gives one later in the thread. Still catching up.
With the Gaza City power plant down I'm wondering what this area in the city is that's lit so damn brightly. Anyone have any ideas?
Generators maybe, but I doubt if the power plant's ran out of fuel, I doubt any citizens in Gaza have any stockpiles that aren't spoken for to fuel Hamas trucks or make explosives out of.
Also, DO NOT GO TO ANY RALLIES!!! STAY HOME!!! Do not put yourself in the position to be used as a meat shield!
Goes without saying. Avoid any protests, plus its not like its going to accomplish anything except maybe get your ass kicked, arrested or killed.
There is something truly surreal watching live footage of a war going on and seeing candid scenes of the situation unfold in real time. For example a fatass reporter staring down at his phone as repeated airstrikes hit in the distance behind him and he's absolutely unphased by it and remains enthralled by his social media and text messages. I know it's his job and he's likely been through more than one situation like this, but there's something just kinda odd and off-putting about it all.
For all we know the poor guy is dealing with his boss chewing him out for not getting juicy enough footage. Still surreal as fuck though to be more interested in your phone what looks like only hundreds of yards from active fighting.
 
Back