Western Animation - Discuss American, Canadian, and European cartoons here (or just bitch about wokeshit, I guess)

[A Grey Cat]

I can give 4 some credit for actually making changes to the group dynamic and permanently altering woody, plus that doll not getting the happy ending she thought she'd get with woodys voice box was subversive. It seems the more time passes I'm able to look back on all BUT the absolute worst Pixar has done in recent years and think "maybe I was a bit too hard on you." Don't get me wrong turning red, ts4, good dinosaur and incredibles 2 and so on so forth are still mediocre at best, worthless garbage at worst and can never EVER hold a candle to the og ts trilogy, ratatouille, up, the incredibles, bugs life or even Pixars lesser work like cars or even Luca. Ph but crap like lightyear and onward? Yeah that can rot in hell no matter what.

Again maybe it goes back to that desire to not come off as a cynic doomer that can't be happy for anything anymore. But even I have my limits In that regard.

 

[Purple Threat]

Does anyone here want to like modern western animation (owl house, haileys on it, bluey, ect) but can't because of all the problems it has? Ex: danna Terrance lezing out owl house to no end and bragging about how she convinced the mouse to do it even though it got her black listed, haileys even though it first episode ticked every woke perfect world delusion of graunder? (Black female ex athlete president of a world saved from from climate change by a colored but not jungle bunny girl) and of course bluey for being a genuinely good show...except that it's attracted every vile pos from autists to diddlers who wanna f the underage dogs and won't keep it to themselves.


Its left me split between two feelings. One a desire to not be a bitter angry cynic that is always complaining like some old washed up recluse Aka "old coot yells at cloud." And the other to be a sound minded individual who sees this crap for the crap it is and rightfully point it out.

I just think the writing quality has gone down. Despite how much more front and center The Gay™ was in Owl House as opposed to Steven Universe I think the former was a much better show because it at least had stakes and characters progressing towards a goal instead of sitting on a beach crying about your trauma until one of your mom's exes show up.

A lot of shows either jump the shark or just never go past mediocre. Depending on the show I can still watch but I can't think of any real heavy hitters in the past couple of years except maybe the Ducktales reboot????

Either way be careful not to fall into the negative publicity loop. I know shows like Velma exist just to get fans and detractors alike to give it traction online and sometimes you get in a Teen Titans Go situation where you just have spergs yelling into the void.

Like someone said in the thread just watch what you like, and preferably avoid the fanbase and twitter at all costs.

 

[macrodegenerate]

You know..the castlevannia series DID have entries that moved the setting from medieval Europe to the distant future. They were the really obscure and not so fondly remembered entries of the ds and gba but still if you wanted a castlevannia with pop singing jungle bunnies you could have used THOSE games to justify their existence....I'm not saying it would have what you're describing better just...more justified than fucking up the setting of Europe before America was even discovered .

The Sorrow series was great. I really hope they don't do my boy Soma dirty like that. Only Dracula incarnation that got the happy ending and ended up with the girl he cared about because he chose love and being himself over power.

 

[Maverick Vile]

The entire series was going to be DeviantArt tier and a poor man's Epic Mickey. It is filled with anime references and the glitch was supposed to be made of memes and trolling. Warner likely dropped it as the entire project would have been more embarrassing to their brand then Space Jam 2.

It is at least slightly more inspired than Loonatics Unleashed.

 

[A Grey Cat]

just think the writing quality has gone down. Despite how much more front and center The Gay™ was in Owl House as opposed to Steven Universe

The Gay™ in western animation was also brought up over in the Disney thread regarding Gargoyles and how the creator confirmed had he made the show today Lexington being a fudge packer would have been front and center.

It's not so much the gay being so front and center that pisses me off (it still does but it's not the only reason) it's the way it's handled so tactlessly and shoved in without considering putting the show or writing first.


Compare how the staff on owl house adressd luz nocedas bisexuality to how Sasha waybrights On amphiba was handled. Owl house had her sitting down with her mother in a full on coming out ceremony complete with the little jungle bunny (who's name I can't be bothered to remember) jumping out the fridge waving flags and everything. Didn't this show start off as "girl trapped in world of magic but was an outcast in the real world for being weird and quirky?" To say nothing of how the token third season had them all wearing pride pins through it all was the icing on the cake and officially the point where all but the terminally online gave up on the show.


Conversely amphiba had it be the only confirmation in regards to Sasha waybright was a single bi sticker on a car she was driving as an adult, set years later when it'd be more believable she'd have figured that out about herself. During the very last scene of the whole show. It doesn't change anything about what came before the way the song and dance routine owl house made.


Of course in a non clown world the sexuality of cartoon characters would be something no writer worth his or her salt would be considering at all, but I'll take a little subtlety and tact over, "look how gay our characters are! see what good allies to an oppressed group we are! Love us give us likes and follows on social media!"

 

[Kari Kamiya]

It's not so much the gay being so front and center that pisses me off (it still does but it's not the only reason) it's the way it's handled so tactlessly and shoved in without considering putting the show or writing first.

This is what happens when fanfic writers actually start writing for real original shows, but they had never improved past their teenage fapfics.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

To anybody who cares about Doug (the former Nicktoon crossed over to Disney), I bring grave news.

Doug Creator Jim Jinkins Working on Sequel Series​

Dubbed Doug Kids, the project would focus on Doug and Patti Mayonnaise, now adults and married (!), and their two children, Yancey and Doug Jr. The show would also feature adult versions of Skeeter, Roger, Beebe, Judy, Chalky, and other original characters.

 

[Coolio55]

To anybody who cares about Doug (the former Nicktoon crossed over to Disney), I bring grave news.

Doug Creator Jim Jinkins Working on Sequel Series​

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I appreciate it not being an obvious spiteful fuck you reboot but lol if you know the reality subtext with Patti.

 

[Shidoen]

To anybody who cares about Doug (the former Nicktoon crossed over to Disney), I bring grave news.

Doug Creator Jim Jinkins Working on Sequel Series​

View attachment 5410341

I appreciate it not being an obvious spiteful fuck you reboot but lol if you know the reality subtext with Patti.

He still can’t get over that girl he loved and probably still stalks.

 

[PS1gamenwatch]

He still can’t get over that girl he loved and probably still stalks.

Didn't he meet her again only to discover she is married?

 

[LucasSomething]

I tried to like owl house and think the issue that killed is that it REALLY wanted to be the "next gravity falls" but it sold itself SOOOO hard on a lesbian ship that is ultimately shallow and pointless to the plot. I heard a lot of complaints of season 3 turning Amity into "Luz love interest" which is bizare cause like, guys come on, Amity was never anything more than her love interest. Amity was the most low effort "Disney rich bully girl that gets redeemed by having bad parents" except they couldn't even commit to that and Amity morphs into what describe as a "gay panic machine" tailor made for tumblr culture. It

Amphibia i did not watch but it's also trying really hard to be gravity falls but being the lack of relatable white boys and the excess of weird frogs makes it a hard sell for both boys and girls. It's also a bit funny that both shows would try to appeal to boys later, with Owl house adding an angsty white boy on Hunter and amphibia suddendly having dragon ball transformations.

All these disney shows having bizarrely similar MCs that look like failed Mabel clones also makes hard to give them a chance cause if you dislike one you'll assume you'd hate all of them.



I think what made us grow so cynical is that every cartoon nowadays is either a reboot, agressively politically correct (Moon girl), tries to copy a popular previous cartoon (gravity falls clones), an obvious cashcow (Imagine running 3 spongebob shows), gets overtaken by shitty drama (SU, Star VS), looks ugly as sin (OK KO) and/or has very alienating/spiteful premise (Rise of Ninja Turtles).

The internet culture and business practices also changed so you cant JUST be a "good show" anymore, you need to either sell toys, subscriptions and trend hashtags. Wander over Yonder was allegedly "the best show no one watched until it was cancelled". Glitch Techs has amazing animation but it lacks the yaoi shipepr appeal voltron had. We automatically compare every show nowadays to gravity falls, adventure time or sponge bob and it's almost justified.

 

[A Grey Cat]

I can't quote @LucasSomething directly so ill just say. I find it hard to belive those two were ever meant to be a couple from the start despite Dana's claims. I mean amity was more than ready to have luz vivisected and even looked like she would have gotten a sadistic kick out of it. Yeahh that's totally perfect girlfriend material. Then again a joke from season one has made me cast doubt on her being a full on lez like Dana says she's always been meant to be (tldr she developed a crush on a character from luzs fantasy books who looks like Dante from dmc)


At least andrea davenport on Molly mcgee was a normal kid who could believability change her ways..well that and andrea wasn't implied to be a sadist helps too.


Also its Funny how the other posters mentioned the reality subtext around Pati mayonnaise, because between the prom episode of owl house being dana wanting to relive her own failure of a prom, and amity blythe also being an expy of a girl she liked years ago but "Oh noes the mean and scary pre current year world wouldn't let us be together!" I'm convinced owl house started as an OK fantasy show that tried to ride gravity falls coattails to dana Terrances "second adolescence" wish fulfillment complete with her own idealistic Yuri self insert ship.

I appreciate it not being an obvious spiteful fuck you reboot but lol if you know the reality subtext with Patti.

Was Doug really in need of a revial though? Remember Doug more less faded away with the 90s, his movie was the last we ever saw of him amd its failure to me is pretty much the day the 90s began to die. Showed that the world was moving on from relics like him and looking toward the future (for all the good that did) I could see Disney pulling this stunt back when hey Arnold rocko and Zim all got reboot specials to try and ride their success but now? The only nickelodeon reboots of yesteryear are rugrats and the upcoming fairly odd parents reboot and newsflash everyone hated the former and the later is not being met with much hope for being good either

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

@LucasSomething you're 100% with the Gravity Falls comparisons though given how many people who worked on that and ended up on one of those two shows it's unsurprising. But of the two Amphibia tries substantially harder and is probably worth a go.

 

[LucasSomething]

I find it hard to belive those two were ever meant to be a couple from the start despite Dana's claims. I mean amity was more than ready to have luz vivisected and even looked like she would have gotten a sadistic kick out of it. Yeahh that's totally perfect girlfriend material.

I get what you mean but Adora and Katra had the most fucked up abusive relationship i ever seen in a cartoon and they were still (allegedly) planned from the start, and i can kinda believe it because there is too much plot focus on Catra.

I still agree tho that Lumity wasnt planned, but mostly because Lumity not only lacks thematic weight, Luz and Hunter have too much chemistry and look like counterparts to Caleb and Evelyn to not be intentional, to the point people were legit shipping them around season 2 and threatning lumity so season 3 had to sink it fast (i admit i did not watch much of season 2 and no season 3).

It feels like the first draft of Owl house was a harry potter fanfic where the OC redeems Draco but at some point they changed to be a yuri fanfiction instead but forgot to adapt the story with it. Maybe it was Disney wanting that LGBT marketing, maybe it was Dana decided to project too much, either way it does not feel like an honest choice meant to enhance the story as a whole.

 

[Mr. ShadowCreek]

To anybody who cares about Doug (the former Nicktoon crossed over to Disney), I bring grave news.

Doug Creator Jim Jinkins Working on Sequel Series​

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A show like Doug probably doesn't need more. I will say I do like it's a sequel series and not a reboot. It won't be a Gen Z Doug. I wanted the new Rugrats show to be a sequel where the babies were adults and had kids of their own and the adults were grandparents. But they took the easy way out by just taking the already recognizable characters. So, this could have potential. I just hope they don't do what every other shoe does today and have some trans character or anything. Also, why is Porkchop still alive? He should have been dead for years now.

 

[starborn427614]

@LucasSomething you're 100% with the Gravity Falls comparisons though given how many people who worked on that and ended up on one of those two shows it's unsurprising. But of the two Amphibia tries substantially harder and is probably worth a go.

These aren't exactly up to date, but it's a good look at how the industry works.

 

[Morethanabitfoolish]

These aren't exactly up to date, but it's a good look at how the industry works.

Thanks. To be fair to a degree that should be how it works, if you're involved in a successful property you should get more work and if you're involved with a bad one but your personal work is good (show with great animation but shitty plot say) then you should get a further chance in your speciality.

Did not know about the Gravity Falls to Tangled tie-in. That was not an awful show, had its flaws but I think you could show it to most children and have no issues.

 

[Super-Chevy454]

Didn't he meet her again only to discover she is married?

That remind me of that live-action trailer done by some fans.

 

[starborn427614]

Did not know about the Gravity Falls to Tangled tie-in. That was not an awful show, had its flaws but I think you could show it to most children and have no issues.

Third season was a bit anti-climactic, but yeah it was decent. I can't think of many animated TV shows based on Disney movies that were bad.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

Third season was a bit anti-climactic, but yeah it was decent. I can't think of many animated TV shows based on Disney movies that were bad.

the Lilo & Stitch series was bad, but I already have gone on in detail about why that is.