Pokémon (Not-So) Griefing Thread - Scarlet and Violet Released with 10 Million Copies in First 3 Days in Buggy States

[30+GameOvers]

@Two Dollars thanks a lot for that. The guide is really good, it actually looks well designed and researched, I expected a gamefaqs like text only walkthrough.

As for Gen 1, I disagree that Romhacks can "fix it". The game is just too broken and unbalanced for that, with how easy it is the most fun you can have with it is breaking it casually(which is hilariously easy to do btw) or trying to catch a missingno and going to town with it(if you don't know, his stats are very similar to Deoxys but it has a lacking movepool. Then again, which pokemon doesn't in gen 1?).
Gen 3 remakes spoiled me, there is just no way for me to go back with all the quality of life features and bugs fixed in Fire Red/Leaf Green. I can't say that for Gen 4 remakes: While HGSS are de-facto definitive Johto games, I think physical/special split makes it way too different to play than the originals, there is a certain amount of charm trying to play with the old battle system in Crystal while still having many QoL features like items, genders, breeding ect. and it being relatively bug free. HGSS feels like a genuine remaster rather than the definitive edition of the game that fixes all the problems of the old one, like FRLG and I find myself playing both. I recently played Pokemon Yellow just to finally get that off my backlog, and the games...did not age well, and with Yellow you can't even play around with Missigno since it crashes the game now.

Speaking of quality of life features, I wish the main line games would introduce an item to let you use on trade-only pokemon like Golem or Alakazam, if you don't have friends or an extra console. SuperGold did this and I assume other romhacks do as well, in a form of a "Covenant Orb" item. I've got one right now and I don't know if I want to use it on an Onyx to evolve it into a Steelix or my Haunter once Gastly evolves so I can have a Gengar. Since the item is rather rare(and only available from the horrible time/moneysink that is the gambling minigame otherwise) the game forces you to make a choice, much like with the limited evolutionary stones. I find that good game design, and that's coming from someone who has several DS consoles and all the games so I can technically just trade any pokemon I want at any time, I know most other people don't have that luxury.

 

[Leaf Wage Slave Jr]

Speaking of quality of life features, I wish the main line games would introduce an item to let you use on trade-only pokemon like Golem or Alakazam, if you don't have friends or an extra console.

Here’s the funny thing - Mystery Dungeon and Legends Arceus both solved this problem and gave us the Link Cable as an Evolution Item in game, Mystery Dungeon all the way back in OG fucking Red/Blue. There’s no excuse for those not being in the Mainline, even as an expensive Shop Only item.

“Oh but it’s to encourage the trading mechanic”, Gamefreak dickriders will say - that’s what version exclusives have been for.

 

[Thiletonomics]

Speaking of quality of life features, I wish the main line games would introduce an item to let you use on trade-only pokemon like Golem or Alakazam, if you don't have friends or an extra console. SuperGold did this and I assume other romhacks do as well, in a form of a "Covenant Orb" item. I've got one right now and I don't know if I want to use it on an Onyx to evolve it into a Steelix or my Haunter once Gastly evolves so I can have a Gengar. Since the item is rather rare(and only available from the horrible time/moneysink that is the gambling minigame otherwise) the game forces you to make a choice, much like with the limited evolutionary stones. I find that good game design, and that's coming from someone who has several DS consoles and all the games so I can technically just trade any pokemon I want at any time, I know most other people don't have that luxury.

Legends Arceus has an item that allows you to do just that, but it's baffling that this wasn't carried over to the main games yet, for reasons other than $$$.

(And obligatory Ninja'd acknowledgment here.)

 

[Atlictoal]

Here’s the funny thing - Mystery Dungeon and Legends Arceus both solved this problem and gave us the Link Cable as an Evolution Item in game, Mystery Dungeon all the way back in OG fucking Red/Blue. There’s no excuse for those not being in the Mainline, even as an expensive Shop Only item.

“Oh but it’s to encourage the trading mechanic”, Gamefreak dickriders will say - that’s what version exclusives have been for.

Maybe if Pokemon on the Pokemon Home GTS could hold items this wouldn't be an issue. They should just make players click through a list of items that will be deleted when the Pokemon is moved (Master Balls and other exploitative items like that) instead of making the whole thing a wash. Too bad Game Freak is just not that good at making games

 

[11 Herbs and Spices]

The backlash to that dex was so unwarranted; just because the starting options are kind of doodoo it doesn't mean it's worth tearing down the other 80% that's incredible

Most of the people that burnt out with the series in BW wasn't just because the starters but the fact that Unova just had a fucton of bootleg Gen 1 pokemon. They weren't awful but it was more that it just felt like trying to catch lightning in a bottle twice and with people that grew up with the series, it was just the "nothing is new and shiny enough anymore" to draw those people back. The number of new pokemon was actually good. It's just that a lot felt uninspired like a new Parasect or Machamp. They're not all 1:1 but it just felt like it was retreading ground and that's pretty much all the complaints I really remember. Number: good. Rehashing: meh.

 

[30+GameOvers]

“Oh but it’s to encourage the trading mechanic”, Gamefreak dickriders will say - that’s what version exclusives have been for.

funnily enough, as a pokemon elitist that spend over 20 years building up his collection and has every single game + multiple consoles + bank + virtual console games to port gen 1 and 2 pokemon to the bank, I would agree with them...up until dexit happened and I couldn't port over any pokemon I wanted to the newer games. Arceus has an excuse since it gives us a brand new gameplay style and a shitload of unique pokemon(and because the game exists in a universe without a magic PC where you can store said pokemon), but mainline games have absolutely no excuse.
If you're going to limit what pokemon(and even moves) we can bring in, you better let us evolve all of them, too. I am fine with this since with romhacks, I am effectively starting out fresh, forced to build up my collection again and using pokemon I can't bring over to the mainline games even if I wanted to anyways(fakemon, or in the case of SG97 betamon), where as in older titles(pre dexit) there were so many ways to get those evolved pokemon(via GTS or trading over pokemon from other titles via national park or the gen 5 catching minigame, or even getting a second console and trading pokemon between the two) that there was no excuse, anyone that wasn't a casual player would find SOME way to get a pokemon they wanted. Plenty of people on GTS who helped people out get a trade-back pokemon via reddit or /vp/ or some other means, and even with just one game there were people who would trade or breed you the "exotic" pokemon you could not find otherwise, that's why if you wanted to get into the franchise, a second console or extra games were a good investment in the long run
With the jump to Nintendo Switch, the "second console" argument doesn't work since you can effectively have more than one savefile per game due to different profiles. That weird system of one savefile per game was the only way I could excuse it, since I usually bough both games anyways(one for my "main save" and the other as a way to trade pokemon and do nuzlockes, always ready to delete that savefile if need be). With removal of certain pokemon. that also obviously means that there is less value to "exotic" pokemon since they literally do not exist in the game's code anymore.
Basically, Gamefreak screwed themselves over by finally moving on with the times, both in good ways but mostly bad(cutting out features and selling them back in DLC or never, subscription service like Home that does less than Bank and forces you to still pay for it, even buggier games because "patches will fix it", getting hilariously woke in just the course of 2 mainline games ect.)

 

[Two Dollars]

I’ve started and quit two B/W playthroughs because I just don’t like most of the gen 5 mons or the fact that you don’t even get older generations until post-game. If I ever try it again, it’ll be through a randomizer.

 

[11 Herbs and Spices]

I’ve started and quit two B/W playthroughs because I just don’t like most of the gen 5 mons or the fact that you don’t even get older generations until post-game. If I ever try it again, it’ll be through a randomizer.

I will actually defend the "everything is new" part just because it was a good way to force people into just not just Chris-channing their favorites every gen. I think newer games didn't do enough to encourage native pokemon usage and ends up just being a few junk 'mons for type coverage and then the same ones you rotate between game. But it is weighted down heavily by a lot just being essentially the same as an older one.

 

[30+GameOvers]

Most of the people that burnt out with the series in BW wasn't just because the starters but the fact that Unova just had a fucton of bootleg Gen 1 pokemon. They weren't awful but it was more that it just felt like trying to catch lightning in a bottle twice and with people that grew up with the series, it was just the "nothing is new and shiny enough anymore" to draw those people back. The number of new pokemon was actually good. It's just that a lot felt uninspired like a new Parasect or Machamp. They're not all 1:1 but it just felt like it was retreading ground and that's pretty much all the complaints I really remember. Number: good. Rehashing: meh.

I disagree, that is a casual's take on things. If you looked closer, you would find that most of these pokemon actually had important roles in the competitive meta that older pokemon simply didn't, either due to them being much simpler to play(no abilities or even held items back in gen 1, and physical/special split were not even a pipe dream so forget them being balanced around that) with or due to stats that were pretty good in 1996 simply not impressive in 2011 anymore.
Take, for example, amonguss. Poor man's vileplume to some, an extremely important competitive pokemon to others, especially in in doubles. Kling Klang, a poor man's Magneton or Magnezone to many but an extremely potent sweeper to others, and a much welcome one to otherwise not very offensive Steel Type family as well. I could go on, but the fact that vast majority of the new 151 have SOME use, or in some cases even more use at that point in time than the original 151 equivalent they were based off of makes the outrage even more petty than it might seem like to a casual observer now. But no, let's focus on the ice cream cone or the garbage bag instead and let's pretend the likes of Muk or Electrode were any better. Note that this is just comparing how pokemon look without going into how each one works, because people who usually go for this argument aren't experienced enough to actually know the difference between one or the other, let alone compare how Muk plays vs how Garbodor plays.
Rehashing: it was genwunner tears back then and they're genwunner tears now. Plus, the backlash gave us the new "gimmickmon" syndrome that XY onwards had where they tried too hard to make new pokemon either marketable or to redefine the metagame since there were less of them. Remember that sweet spot that Gen 4 and 3 had where there were a ton of new pokemon but each felt great and added to the flavor of each region? I just don't get that feeling anymore, altho gen 7 and 8 came close.
BTW this post isn't an attack on you personally, but I hear the bootleg argument a lot.

 

[Kid Named Rocket]

Based and Unovapilled
The backlash to that dex was so unwarranted; just because the starting options are kind of doodoo it doesn't mean it's worth tearing down the other 80% that's incredible

I agree with the rest of your post, but the starters are not doodoo, stalker child. Those are your delusions again. Samurott is my bro 4 lyfe and I will defend him to my last breath. Prison awaits

 

[11 Herbs and Spices]

that is a casual's take on things. If you looked closer, you would find that most of these pokemon actually had important roles in the competitive meta that older pokemon simply didn't,

This is the part of the game that no one cares about but a single percentage of the community. If you care about metas in a fucking children's game, you are beyond the target demo that game devs should care about.

I still think the "hard mode" for BW was something every game needs from the start, though.

 

[30+GameOvers]

This is the part of the game that no one cares about but a single percentage of the community. If you care about metas in a fucking children's game, you are beyond the target demo that game devs should care about.

Showdown, VGC and likes of Nuzlockes and Randomizers(which no matter what people will tell you require some knowledge of the game and most of the pokemon) say otherwise, so even if that's just a minority of total people that play pokemon that's still much more than "a single percentage".
You are correct in that vast majority of the people that play these games, just out of their sheer appeal, simply don't know how to play them due to them being children or normalfags...then again, I was once a normalfag and a child that played these games and even I learned more indepth info about these games so there is no excuse(funnily enough, that was the point where I discovered Battle Frontier existed in Emerald, and that my shitmon/funmon team would simply not cut it in the Battle Pike, something I assume that wasn't on the to-do list for vast majority of casual Emerald players with how much of a timesink that entire part of the game was).
That does bring up a good point: If vast majority of people don't continue past Elite Four, let alone ever reach them, that doesn't make their point on the franchise valid, now does it? They're the tourists who consoom the game every year and then leave it alone after a few weeks, similarly to all the people who buy the new COD or Fifa every year but put it down before a month goes by. Even if that is who Gamefreak appeals to, that doesn't change anything, just goes to show that Gamefreak only cares about money and not the franchise as a whole(similarly to the games I just mentioned)
These are the kinds of people that were a large part of the Unova hate club and the Dexit apathy club, as they simple don't care beyond the simple argument of "This game has Pikachu/Doesn't have one". This is literally all that shapes their outlook, I would go further and say that Charizard and other Kanto shitmons follow the same route but apparently SV and even SwSh at launch were missing quite a few of them, so I am guessing it's just literally Pikachu that people care about(and maybe Charizard and other Kanto starters).
That's what my last post was pointing towards btw, if you can't actually make an effortpost regarding the battling system of the game(which even the newer, more casual games put a big emphasis on) then that person't opinion simply doesn't matter. You don't need to be a smogon tryhard, but you do need to understand the meta of existing region pokemon and how each shapes the unique region dex of each game. That, in my mind is the bare minimal gatekeeping point, otherwise they might as well be actual children that have absolutely no idea what they're talking about(of course, my opinion doesn't matter either since Gamefreak only pays attention to what they can safely cut out of the game to save development budget on or what they can sell back later. I and other actual fans of the game don't get a say or even get catered to anymore)
Oh, and regarding "Hard Mode", I think the games just need to be harder, period. Pokemon was never a hard game, but there was a time that you could get screwed over if you absolutely weren't even thinking about team building, ergo why Twitch Plays Pokemon completed the first two gens but got stuck on Emerald, as you can't literally just button mash that game, same goes for Platinum and Gamecube titles and even arguably Gen 5 titles, even if that's where the games really started to start pander to casuals with the arbitrary 3 Pokemon limit on Gym Leaders and a similar limit on Elite 4 Leaders.
There is a sweet spot between a romhack tier slog that forces you to create competitive sets to even be able to compete in the gyms and the newer titles where you can go on autopilot mode all the way thru because the games are targeted at the same kinds of people who you will try to shill a DLC pass towards, ie idiots who want an easy game because if it challenges them at any point, they will turn it off and that's a sale lost.

 

[11 Herbs and Spices]

just goes to show that Gamefreak only cares about money and not the franchise as a whole

This has been common knowledge since the early 2000s.

 

[SourApples]

This is the part of the game that no one cares about but a single percentage of the community. If you care about metas in a fucking children's game, you are beyond the target demo that game devs should care about.

I still think the "hard mode" for BW was something every game needs from the start, though.

Adults joining a children's game competitively reminds me of this. I can't really put it into words.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sRaAzHzxMi8

 

[Hiphopopotamus]

I want to let you all know this name isn't flagged and I could go online with it.

This was wasn't allowed though (but it still let me name it)

 

[30+GameOvers]

This has been common knowledge since the early 2000s.

Games up until Platinum and arguably Black/White were actually decent, so that would move the goalpost to early 2010s. Then, it would be an accurate statement and I would agree with you.

Adults joining a children's game competitively reminds me of this. I can't really put it into words.

https://youtube.com/shorts/sRaAzHzxMi8?si=im7XXzNCcAUwAngz

Pokemon's battling mechanics are actually a lot more indepth than you would think. That's the beauty of it: A literal child can play and finish the single player portion, but good luck competing in Battle Tower clones or on Showdown without doing your research on every anal and obscure facet of the system and keeping up with how every single pokemon works and evolves by the way of metagame.
High level competitive play is something else, I would argue that you haven't actually played the games at all until you experienced it in some capacity.
I recommend "False Swipe Gaming" and "BKC" channels to get a primer on how more competitive side of the franchise works. If you're actually new to the whole concept, FSG is especially better since he breaks down not just how every pokemon did in every generation but also talks about every generation's specific metagame and what shaped it, why and how that specific pokemon fit(or failed to fit) in it.
BKC is a sperg like me that makes hour + long videos on whatever he feels like it, you need some context for most of his videos that you can get from FSG but he can show you just how indepth the games can get. A far cry from just mindlessly pressing A to get past trainers in single player, which is more or less just the tutorial for the main course in my opinion.

 

[11 Herbs and Spices]

Adults joining a children's game competitively reminds me of this. I can't really put it into words.
https://youtube.com/shorts/sRaAzHzxMi8?si=im7XXzNCcAUwAngz

It's not that the games can't have complexity because even kids pick up on rules and strategies. But it's telling a kid he's not playing the game right by not running a eugenics program on the field mouse he found cute so he caught the first one and it's his new best friend.

I went to one of the trading card game learning competitions as a kid where it was an event for kids to learn how to play the card game against other kids with someone supervising and teaching; I was the only actual child and my parents then took me home.

He watched too many NatGeo docs on elephants.

Games up until Platinum and arguably Black/White were actually decent, so that would move the goalpost to early 2010s. Then, it would be an accurate statement and I would agree with you.

Ever since the first third version, really, it was just money.

 

[SourApples]

Games up until Platinum and arguably Black/White were actually decent, so that would move the goalpost to early 2010s. Then, it would be an accurate statement and I would agree with you.


Pokemon's battling mechanics are actually a lot more indepth than you would think. That's the beauty of it: A literal child can play and finish the single player portion, but good luck competing in Battle Tower clones or on Showdown without doing your research on every anal and obscure facet of the system and keeping up with how every single pokemon works and evolves by the way of metagame.
High level competitive play is something else, I would argue that you haven't actually played the games at all until you experienced it in some capacity.
I recommend "False Swipe Gaming" and "BKC" channels to get a primer on how more competitive side of the franchise works. If you're actually new to the whole concept, FSG is especially better since he breaks down not just how every pokemon did in every generation but also talks about every generation's specific metagame and what shaped it, why and how that specific pokemon fit(or failed to fit) in it.
BKC is a sperg like me that makes hour + long videos on whatever he feels like it, you need some context for most of his videos that you can get from FSG but he can show you just how indepth the games can get. A far cry from just mindlessly pressing A to get past trainers in single player, which is more or less just the tutorial for the main course in my opinion.

That's a lot of words I'm not reading. Sorry that it happened. Or happy that it did.

 

[30+GameOvers]

Ever since the first third version, really, it was just money.

Disagree, Third Versions were justified in their purchase due to the amount of content they added and new direction each director could take with the story(every third game version to and including Ultra games were done by somebody else than the main director of the franchise, that also includes Arceus if you count that as a "third game" to the Gen 4 remakes)
I had no problem buying third versions since I knew I would get more pokemon, bug fixes(if need be), more story + events ect. as well as the likes of Battle Frontier , move tutors and new variants of Pokemon like Rotom forms. More of the same plus a new save file. With the little walled garden Gamefreak made, it made sense and I didn't mind it, notice how the franchise fell in the shitter once they stopped doing these and focused on patches plus DLC. For all the talk about "third version bad", Emerald and Platinum(and Crystal to an extent) are still some of the best games in the franchise.
Oh, and for the record, if that's your argument for when the Pokemon games went bad...Even the first gen had a third version in the form of Yellow version, and cut content suggests they would probably go with a second third version in the form of "Pink version" if they didn't want to dedicate more time to the upcoming Gold and Silver releases instead. Gamefreak hasn't changed, it was all about money from the start, third version bad is an argument done in bad faith(usually in my experience from people who think that dexit and DLC is no big deal either)

 

[SourApples]

It's not that the games can't have complexity because even kids pick up on rules and strategies. But it's telling a kid he's not playing the game right by not running a eugenics program on the field mouse he found cute so he caught the first one and it's his new best friend.

I went to one of the trading card game learning competitions as a kid where it was an event for kids to learn how to play the card game against other kids with someone supervising and teaching; I was the only actual child and my parents then took me home.

He watched too many NatGeo docs on elephants.


Ever since the first third version, really, it was just money.

Yeah, that is my issue with it. I like to just catch the first one I find and use that for my play through. They act like those people that breed a bunch of snakes to get more expensive ones who store them in plastic boxes on a shelf by the hundreds and insist they don't mind. I notice it's mostly adults dominating a kids game taking the fun out of it for them. They waste far too much time on something that doesn't matter and no one will be impressed by.