Diseased Neo-Pagans / Witches on the Internet / Witchblr - SMT IRL, but with fatties

moms sock drawer said:
Do you have any reccomended reading/watching/listening on the witch burning stuff without the femenist tweaks? I've nevet looked into it much but was always taught that it was exactly that, men toasting up smart ladies or pants wearers or the unwed and successful and whatnot. So now I'm curious to know what the actual deal was!
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While yes there were I think more women on averaged killed for witchcraft, there were quite a few men, children, and even entire families. If you look into the list on Wikipedia you start to see a pattern of a lot of them being (literally) royal grudges and power moves, in-laws hating the new wife/husband, or neighbors not liking you so they accused you of it. There are several monks on the list as well as people who confessed to actually trying to curse people for various reasons. Germany did the majority of them, they really hated those devil tit suckers. There's a very even wikipedia article throughout Europe you can delve into, they're very honest and even about it without the feminist spin. And go into detail where the trials were actually happening, important documents, and religious figures who called it all rubbish to begin with.

The shitty part is often once you were accused of being a witch, there wasn't really a way to get out of it. A lot of the "tests" and "tells" of being a witch were either relatively common enough to get you caught out or the torture would eventually force a false confession.
 
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Yaks said:
The shitty part is often once you were accused of being a witch, there wasn't really a way to get out of it. A lot of the "tests" and "tells" of being a witch were either relatively common enough to get you caught out or the torture would eventually force a false confession.
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Just like being called a nazi or "far-right" today, eh?

The more things change....

Anyway, this post has some great jump points and references for those who want to start digging into the real history of witches and witch hunts.
 
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moms sock drawer said:
So now I'm curious to know what the actual deal was!
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there was a widespread moral panic about supposed witchcraft and black magic, originating mostly in commonly held popular superstitions. people started denouncing each other as witches and heretics for all kinds of reasons. often it was personal feuds and local power struggles.
for example this woman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharina_Kepler
(the german version is a lot more detailed: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharina_Kepler)
she had some business dispute with another woman, who then denounced her to authorities for allegedly giving her poison that made her sick. was jailed for over a year, but was lucky enough to get out alive.

the way many of these trials were conudcted (use of torture to obtain confessions, and to force the victim to name more alleged co-conspirators, accusers were sometimes rewarded with money after a trial) created a positive feedback loop where each trial that was conducted created more incentive for people to denounce even more people as witches.

importantly, most witch trials weren't conducted by the inquisition, those were mostly concerned with finding and prosecuting heretics.
the majority of witch trials occured in protestant areas, and they were mostly conducted by local authorities who were not acting in line with either imperial law or catholic church law, but took matters into their own hands based on popular demand in the area.
imperial law for example didn't approve of using "judgements of god" for establishing guilt, but local authorities conducting witch trials often made use of them anyway - these are things like throwing the suspect into a pool of water and if he floats that means the 'clean' water rejects him which is evidence of guilt. lots of shit like that was used in witch trials. imperial law was also pretty restrictive on when and how torture could be used in trials, but local witch trials often ignored that and applied it much more liberally. it was all very inconsistent and varied a lot between regions.
 
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moms sock drawer said:
Do you have any reccomended reading/watching/listening on the witch burning stuff without the femenist tweaks? I've nevet looked into it much but was always taught that it was exactly that, men toasting up smart ladies or pants wearers or the unwed and successful and whatnot. So now I'm curious to know what the actual deal was!
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One of my university professors was an expert in witchcraft and the witch hunts. His elective courses on the topic were so popular that they were offered night classes so that part-time and extension students could easily attend. As you'd imagine, the classes were full of young eclectic witches and retired women into Wicca. I'm uncertain if they got what they were looking for as the classes were factual examinations of witch crazes and hunts from historical to the present day, but there was the opportunity for group presentations where everyone could sperg about their personal practice.

Needless to say, the "burning times" crap was debunked and examined from a cultural perspective. I suspect a lot of people came in hoping for something more sensationalist, and the professor did deliver by starting each class with a rundown of his latest media battles with various religious nuts and internet witches. It was a fun course with a lot of good information. I kept the textbooks, both because I enjoyed the course and to have them on hand whenever anyone goes full The evibs they burned us! at me.

Anyway, here's a varied reading list:

Most of what you'll find is repetitive unless you're really, really into the history of witch scares in various international locations. Suffice it to say, they all talk about fear of the unknown, looking for scapegoats, financial and power motives involving religious and elite classes, mass hysteria, who the actual targets were/are, and debunking ridiculous claims such as millions of realz ackual witch ladies burned at the stake.

The Witch Hunt in Early Modern Europe (1987 4th edition 2016) and The Witchcraft Sourcebook (second edition 2015)
by Brian P. Levack

Textbooks I kept. The second is a document collection circa 1400 - 1750s.

Records of the Salem Witch-Hunt (2013)
by Bernard Rosenthal

Like it says in the title.

The Triumph of the Moon: A History of Modern Pagan Witchcraft (1999, second edition updated in 2019)
by Ronald Hutton

Where we are today and how we got there. A really great primer that I can't recommend enough if anyone is actually interested in why internet witches exist and who their ancestors were.

For those who want to peek into the mindset of TikTok spellcasters, a collection of non-academic, magic world reading lists follows.

The World of Witchcraft (and other assorted magic spell lunatics)

I'm only touching on the heavy hitters; Tradcraft, Wicca, and Green Witchery. There are fairie witches (and the Feri tradition, which has nothing to do with fairies), druidic witches, and a bazillion other offshoots of every combination of witchery you can think of. Some are very into combining eurocentric spellcraft with indiginous faiths while others are all about that Voudon.

Wicca, and to a lesser extent all neopaganism, owes a debt to the ceremonial magicians. I could extend this list a thousandfold by acknowledging the debt to Shamanism, Greek and Roman paganism, Heathenry, and East Asian religions but let's stick to the magical spellcasters of the pumpkin latte basic white bitch variety for now. Like these girls are doing actual research into Greek mythology beyond reading some myths.

Insert Regardie, Crowley, and their peers here.
The Golden Dawn by Israel Regardie
Magick: Liber ABA by Aleister Crowley
etc...

I'm not listing all their books because no one cares, myself included. It's not like anyone beyond the edgiest of the edgy among the witches of TikTok is reading any of that. They may wave around a Thoth or Golden Dawn Tarot (prolly the weak but popular Rider-Waite-Smith) edition though.


Modern Magick: Eleven Lessons in the High Magickal Arts (1988, second edition 2010)
by Donald Michael Kraig

Wanna learn banishing rituals of pentagrams and Kabbalah (or Kabala or Kabalah or Quabala or you get it by this point), or what those folks waving swords around and making funny hand gestures think they're accomplishing, with an easy read? Here's the textbook for you.

Some folks cast spells with oils and crystals, some others want to travel in traces to the beat of drums. While trancework and the shaman are not witchcraft exactly, the overlap is huge. Druids do it. So do Wiccans. Most indigenous cultures have some form of shamanistic rites.

The Way of the Shaman (1990)
by Michael Harner

His books will give anyone a good understanding of what shamanism is and isn't. You can also download drum tracks to follow along and try it out yourself, if so inclined.

Lifting the Veil: A Witches' Guide To Trance-Prophecy, Drawing Down The Moon, and Ecstatic Ritual
by Janet Farrar and Gavin Bone

A how-to guide on recreating the temple of Delphi and role-playing the Sibyl. We'll see Janet again later.


For older witches, Wicca was a big influence. This is the stuff 90s goths were trying to reproduce at home without understanding it as a mix of ceremonial magic (mostly Golden Dawn and Crowley), the Matter of Britan (King Arther shit), folk magic, random ancient god/dess pantions, 2and the wild imaginings of Gerald Gardner.

Wicca hasn't fallen somewhat out of favour only because too hard, with all that rememberizing and stuff. Wicca also has a GENDER Problem. See, Wicca has duality - man and woman - as one of its central concepts. LGB Wiccans have come up with creative ways around this over the years but removing it changes the entire concept of this neopagan religion. Not to say that hasn't happened, witches gotta keep up with the times, but it does give a competitive edge to the trad and green witches.

Witchcraft Today (1954)
by Gerald Gardner

And here we go; this is the father of Wicca in all his, er, glory. Don't read this, it sucks.

A Witches' Bible: The Complete Witches Handbook (1981/84)
by Janet and Stewart Farrar

The first book that reached the masses (actually two books combined as released in North America). The humble beginnings are clear, as is the complete lack of self-awareness of how all those nude pics of the authors and friends in homemade witch costumes appear to outsiders. As far as Wicca books go, this is easy to read and not as goofy as the other contenders. A wannabe Wiccan could do worse than follow the Farrars.

Buckland’s Complete Book of Witchcraft (1986)
by Raymond Buckland

A Wiccan gone AWOL, Buckland created his own version of the craft open to anyone without the need for initiation into a coven or a partner to sex magik with. As you can imagine, thousands of lonely souls began robing up in their living rooms, getting all down with their witchy selves. Buckland later went on to write about Spiritualism and Gypsy Magik.

Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner (1989)
by Scott Cunningham

The book for anyone who found Buckland's writing too difficult. This is the touchy-feely, no-triggers approach to backyard/living room Wicca with loads of fluffy bunnies and beauty.

The Spiral Dance: A Rebirth of the Ancient Religion of the Great Goddess (1979)
by Starhawk

You want some old-school, feminist, activist Wiccans? Yeah, this is where they came from. Come to the climate rally and dance under the moon with your menstrual blood, girl. Just be careful to do it with social justice and limited cultural appropriation (Starhawk wrote her opus back when it was still ok to appropriate Indigenous Americans).

To Ride a Silver Broomstick: New Generation Witchcraft (1994)
by Silver RavenWolf, author of horrible witchcraft guidebooks

This is what the 90s goths were actually doing, most of the time. The Craft in real life. Edge score 100000 for those too timid to go all out and try fake Satanism.

This is more popular among the internet witches today. (Not really. most online witches have about as much relationship to these Cochrane-style crafters as they do Wiccans, but they won't tell you that.) It's more anything goes than the Wiccans, being less based on ceremony and rituals. You want to play with magic menstrual blood while homouring your dead as you peer betwix the forks of your staff? Here's the path for you!

Of note: traditional witches may or may not practice witchcraft as their religion. Some follow a different faith, often Druidry or Christianity, while others may even be atheists.

Since trad witches come in various flavours, I'm going to pick a style and stick with it. Gary and Pearson represent one path; there are trad witches who follow American folklore as well as others who focus more on different ethnic heritages. Example - Backwoods Witchcraft: Conjure & Folk Magic from Appalachia by Jake Richards (2019).

Traditional Witchcraft: A Cornish Book of Ways (2008 )
by Gemma Gary

As noted in the title, this is a regional practice but the author has become so popular in trad witch circles that many have adopted the suggestions to their local settings. If any of those internet witches want to learn about British traditional spell crafting, Gemma's books are there waiting for them.


Treading the Mill: Workings in Traditional Witchcraft (2007)
by Nigel G. Pearson

AKA everything you ever wanted to know about wand making (or winemaking, depending on the edition). Similar to the above, but a little harder to get into. A much-loved book among serious modern trad crafters. Like Gary, he has multiple books available.


The Crocked Path: An Introduction to Traditional Witchcraft (2020)
by Kelden

A beginner book of trad witchcraft. If you want a basic primer, this is an easy read and gets the main precepts across. The delivery is suitable for newbie trad witches and those just interested in knowing a bit about the core practices. You know, so you can point and laugh from a place of knowledge.

Witches, and basic bitches, who like to grow stuff and hang dried plants all over their homes. 90% of the internet witches are frolicking in this herb garden. The cottagecore of witchcraft.

There are serious green witches out there, doing their local wise person thing, but the aesthetic witches outnumber them tenfold online.

Green Witchcraft I, II, III, IV, and on and on (started in 1996)
by Ann Moura, the Silver RavenWolf of Green Witchcraft, only much less awful

Everything you ever wanted to know about being a modern-day cunning wo/man ... no wait, that's the trad witches. Everything you ever wanted to know about being a modern-day kitchen or cottage witch. I think our own Yarrow the transmasc womb wizard druid was aiming for this form of witchcraft in between her Satanism larp and cosplay of NorseIrish heathen-druidry.

Green Witchcraft: A Practical Guide to Discovering the Magic of Plants, Herbs, Crystals, and Beyond (2020)
by Paige Vanderbeck

I'd put good money on most of the good witches of the land of internet having a copy of this. I know nothing about it; I have Culpeper’s Complete Herbal, the OG of the herbal guides.

The Green Witch: Your Complete Guide to the Natural Magic of Herbs, Flowers, Essential Oils, and More and The Witch's Book of Self-Care: Magical Ways to Pamper, Soothe, and Care for Your Body and Spirit
by Arin Murphy-Hiscock

Self-care and flowerlore for all the very best Witches of TikTok.

If you've been reading along, you'll now notice many of the African and Eastern religious overtones have been replaced with more culturally sensitive (read safe for basic white bitches) ceremonial magik influences. Less chakra, more space crystals.

Something else to note; the Gender Problem of Wicca has given way to genderfluidity and sensitivity.

Psychic Witch: A Metaphysical Guide to Meditation, Magick & Manifestation (2020)
by Mat Auryn

Here's a witch of the sort you might recognize from the internet. This book is one of the best from the current gen of witches.

Sometimes, you just want to host a big ol' pagan BBQ in your local park. I mean, someone's gotta entertain passersby with a public display of wackiness.

Neo Pagan Rites: A Guide to Creating Public Rituals That Work (2007)
by Isaac Bonewits

No, he doesn't mean work that way, as in smiting your enemies with MAGIK!!!! No, he means work as in herding cats, or making witches dance in the correct direction while you plunge your dagger into the chalice. This is actually an amazingly great, easy-read book on the structure of pagan rites in general. The guidelines would work equally well with any large religious rite. Like most pagans, Bonewits suffers from a touch of ye olde pretensions (notice how nearly every book listed has had a subtitle?) but far less than most of his peers.

This is what happens when a farmer encounters a thread geared towards a personal special interest. Sorry for the massive infodump no one really asked for.

As if it's not painfully obvious, I'm pagan (since childhood, actually) and have encountered many, many, many witches of various types in the wild. We're all a little crazy.

I dunk on the witches of TIkTok, and they deserve it (all of us pagan and pagan adjacent nerds do), but some of them go on to develop a deeper interest. Everyone starts somewhere. Seeing your niche thing become a trend is cringe but the whole neopagan/witchcraft/magik world is cringe anyway. Everyone needs a self-awareness reality check sometimes.
 
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In honor of @Turtlebees' amazing post, I bring these tiktoks in the spirit of the season.





"Let go of old shadows?" That's now what shadow work means. Is that what these TikTok witches have thought it meant this whole time?

Also some reddit posts:
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DumbDude43 said:
people started denouncing each other as witches and heretics for all kinds of reasons. often it was personal feuds and local power struggles.
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I looked into my own history was surprised to find that Acadians didn't have witch trials like other places. There are local rumors about certain graves belonging to witches and superstitions like being afraid to turn down a native artisan selling wares at the door bc they believed natives had the power to put a curse on you if you refused. Acadians intermarried with natives though and seemed to respect them, not fervently and macabrely executing them for a bunch of imagined witchcraft charges.
Historically; pre-British, there was a case in the 1600s where people owed a guy money so accused him of being a sorcerer and were basically called out in court as having a personal grievance and not wanting to pay back their debts to the guy they accused. It made me think that a lot of witch trials in other places probably had similar circumstances to this, with accusers having a monetary or other incentive.
Finally, Jean Rignault, aged about 33, (although he was born in 1655 according to another document) came to his defense. He certified that he had known Jean Campagna in Pentagoët since the year of his arrival in Acadie 14 years earlier. He had always been a good and valiant worker and had a good amount of money. He said that all the trouble came from the fact that some people, who owed him money, so as not to have to pay it, started to say that he was a wizard.
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I read of a Hungarian ruler named King Coloman of Hungry saying witches and vampires do not exist and so could not be legally punished for it, over 900 yrs ago. His laws were on the books for centuries and this protected them against bigger witch panics than in Western Europe and America, who had full legal backing.
One of the decrees prohibited the persecution of strigae—vampires or mares—because they "do not exist".[95][96][97] The same law also dealt with malefici or "sorcerers",[98] punishing their misdeeds.
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@Turtlebees Phenomenal post and insight into the modern pagan movement. I've studied esotericism for a number of years and your knowledge is self evident. There's a good book for the occasional I hate everything western "witch" and for religious scholars, entitled Magic in Islam. It's an interesting showcase of eastern magical/superstitious practices. Discussions of Jinn and Magic Bowls, etc., perfect for spooktober. The author also suffers from extreme pretentiousness, just as a heads up. May Christ be with you all.
 
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PyroJohn said:
Has anyone actually seen a Pagan in real life? I only see them on the internet and not outside.
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Oh yeah, lots. They gravitate to national parks and stuff, so it's not unusual to come across them if you also like nature.
That said, the irl ones are less cringe than the online ones, so that's why we have separate threads for internet witches vs. general pagans.
 
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PyroJohn said:
Has anyone actually seen a Pagan in real life? I only see them on the internet and not outside.
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only to the extent that some of the long haired bearded guys who hang out at heavy metal festivals sometimes wear norse pagan symbols like mjolnir im the form of jewelry or patches on their jackets
there's a pretty big presence of norse paganism in the music of some major bands in the scene, but from my experience very very few of the fans treat it like an actual religion, most just enjoy the themes and stories from it
 
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NoReturn said:
On the thing I mentioned earlier, it occurs to me that maybe the reason I find them less cringe is that it seems like less of a LARP. When I come across a forest-hippy making a wreath out of flowers or some shit, that's the "real version" of that thing as opposed to buying a "witchy" decoration off Temu.
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I get that, it's the difference between performative religious observation while folks are watching and then actually practicing the religion.
 
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