Cultcow Russell Greer / Mr. Green / @ just_some_dude_named_russell29 / A Safer Nevada PAC - Swift-Obsessed Sex Pest, Convicted of E-Stalking, "Eggshell Skull Plaintiff" Pro Se Litigant, Homeless, aspiring brothel owner

If you were Taylor Swift, whom would you rather date?

  • Russell Greer

    Votes: 117 4.5%
  • Travis Kelce

    Votes: 138 5.3%
  • Null

    Votes: 1,450 55.8%
  • Kanye West

    Votes: 285 11.0%
  • Ariana Grande

    Votes: 609 23.4%

  • Total voters
    2,599
Skordas dropped the ball by not arguing fair use, change my mind.
It's likely a losing argument. It's always been a bad argument from the moment Null overtly declined to honor the DMCA (thereby waiving safe harbor and figuratively saying "sue me").

There's an idea out there that one can post copyrighted stuff freely 'for criticism' or as long as it's not monetized. The people that wrote the laws for themselves would never let that fly. You can't post a blockbuster movie on a file sharing site and write "fair use do not sue" in the description and expect it to work. One also shouldn't expect to upload a whole song on a gossip site and face no issues just because people are making fun of it in posts.

It could have probably been made fair-use by internally criticizing the work. Maybe by making an audio or visual analysis, in such a way that it could not be a substitute for the original 'work.' However, in the case of the song, it was the worst possible argument for fair use because IIRC the person who posted it literally said that they were putting it there so no one else would have to buy it and give Greer money. Unless that was when the book was posted?

The book has the complication of not being directly hosted but I don't remember the fair use argument being much better. A great example of defensible fair use is what rackets did with the book, though. Very transformative. Man, those were the good days...
 
@mindlessobserver @Useful_Mistake

I’m retarded. Is it so over or are we so fucking back?

All I get is that the court is basically just waving it through because somewhat retarded reasons and Russell literally taped together so much shit in his appeal.
Its not good.

Me and @Useful_Mistake have a tiff unrelated to this issue, and the double whammy of being called a retard by him while still processing this horrendous decision got the better of me.

The simple truth is the courts ruling is sound, but the soundness of their decision is based solely on how sound Greers claims and background information are. The Court did not rule on the veracity of anything. They simple accepted every retarded thing Greer filed as being true, and then ruled verbatim down the checklist of cases every lawyer and paralegal is forced to read in Law School and Community college. There was no analysis, there was no thought on the consequences. Just a boiler plate fuck you, that was probably written by Legal Clerks.

I was honestly worried about this outcome after listening to the oral arguments. Skordas was not on his game. In his defense though he did say his flight got cancelled and he had been awake for two days with no sleep in order to get to court. So take that for what you will.

So basically its now up to the district judge to rule on what Greer has claimed. I should amend my claim on asking for a Stay. This would definitely be rejected. It would NOT however result in "Disbarment". Disbarment is an extraordinary remedy for severe breaches in ethics, which vigorous defense does not reach. At a minimum If the judge was feeling vindictive the cost of arguing the stay proceeding would be incurred to the defense.

What does bringing forth defamation challenges offer now? It put's it on the record that everything in Greers background summary is under challenge, and this is something the judge will consider in future rulings. The point I was trying to get at before losing the plot, my "legal theory" if we want to get technical, is that the defamation of the forum is no longer a fact of life. Its becoming an existential threat and either its challenged or the failure to challenge it will be accepted as admission of the truth of the defamation.
 
Question for @Useful_Mistake or @AnOminous: In a civil case, it defaults to a bench trial unless either party requests a jury right? Would it be in any way advantageous for Null to request a jury trial or stick with a bench trial?
 
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They simple accepted every retarded thing Greer filed as being true, and then ruled verbatim down the checklist of cases every lawyer and paralegal is forced to read in Law School and Community college. There was no analysis, there was no thought on the consequences. Just a boiler plate fuck you, that was probably written by Legal Clerks.
True. I mean, if you really think about it, is there any legal analysis aside from page 21? Everything before that is background on the case, parties, and how copyright/pro se cases/complaints are handled, 21 addresses the main disagreement with the district court, 22 is merely a repeat of 21, and 23 is the actual order reversing the case.
It would NOT however result in "Disbarment". Disbarment is an extraordinary remedy for severe breaches in ethics, which vigorous defense does not reach. At a minimum If the judge was feeling vindictive the cost of arguing the stay proceeding would be incurred to the defense.
I never said a motion for stay would result in disbarment. I said that your defamation theory could, which I earnestly believe in. Giuliani's ability to practice law was suspended for merely vigorously pursuing avenues his client demanded, avenues that weren't even novel legal theories. To this day, judges work to try to disbar him everywhere he has a license to practice for this same reason. Imagine how worse it could be for exploring a novel and patently outrageous legal theory. Even if you disagree that it is patently outrageous and Rule 11 sanction worthy, you are still facing a risk that a judge would see it this way. There is no judge in the United States who would consider judges following FRCP as being proof of damages in an unrelated defamation case.
It put's it on the record that everything in Greers background summary is under challenge, and this is something the judge will consider in future rulings.
Or you can challenge it as it becomes relevant and stop yourself from losing thousands of dollars in a novel defamation action you aren't likely to win. I really think Null should win, but fighting against newspapers? Not very likely. Individual offenders would be better, but the media is incestuous, and has done its best to raise them to be public figures of some effect. Would that suffice? I'd argue not, but it remains to be seen.
Its becoming an existential threat
I think I can agree to that.
Question for @Useful_Mistake or @AnOminous: In a civil case, it defaults to a bench trial unless either party requests a jury right?
My read of FRCP Rule 38 suggests that both parties essentially waived that right by not requesting it. It would default to a bench trial, then, yes.
Would it be in any advantageous for Null to request a jury trial or stick with a bench trial?
The District Judge was sympathetic to Greer's plights, so that's an issue. On the other hand, the same judge did not think that Russ plead his case well enough even on the lenientest standard, so there could be hope here. I'd stick with bench trial, but Skordas has to judge the cost-to-benefit in the risk.
 
Or you can challenge it as it becomes relevant and stop yourself from losing thousands of dollars in a novel defamation action you aren't likely to win. I really think Null should win, but fighting against newspapers? Not very likely. Individual offenders would be better, but the media is incestuous, and has done its best to raise them to be public figures of some effect. Would that suffice? I'd argue not, but it remains to be seen.
True. I had Taylor Lorenze on the brain. Actually, am I off base here in that Greer has opened the door for Null to introduce discovery witnesses? Greer claimed, as affirmed by the 10th circuit, that the KiwiFarms is responsible for three suicides. I think the subject matter around these suicides is now relevant to the case. Never mind what the WaPo said. I think there are a number of people who are now evidence witnesses directly related to this lawsuit that should be introduced.

The judge can always say no, but at a minimum the question should be asked.

I never said a motion for stay would result in disbarment. I said that your defamation theory could, which I earnestly believe in. Giuliani's ability to practice law was suspended for merely vigorously pursuing avenues his client demanded, avenues that weren't even novel legal theories. To this day, judges work to try to disbar him everywhere he has a license to practice for this same reason. Imagine how worse it could be for exploring a novel and patently outrageous legal theory. Even if you disagree that it is patently outrageous and Rule 11 sanction worthy, you are still facing a risk that a judge would see it this way. There is no judge in the United States who would consider judges following FRCP as being proof of damages in an unrelated defamation case.
They are not trying to disbar Giuliani because he broke procedure or the law, they are trying to disbar him because he is a political enemy. You of all people should know at this point there is a two tier justice system in this country with a very, very tenuous thread linking the statutory tier with the political one.

I think I can agree to that.
Better do more then think. For all the jokes about this forum being the Eye of Sauron, its actually Isengard, and the real Eye of Sauron is on it.
 
Skordas dropped the ball by not arguing fair use, change my mind.
That's something you do during the trial... Motions to dismiss before trial in most cases go something like "Even if everything the guy accusing me says is true, he's still wrong and here's why" because pre-trial shit assumes the guy doing accusing is not lying or wrong in matters of fact.
Edit: Sorry for the late reply. Page no update. I blame my junglenet
 
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He also has 90 days to appeal to SCOTUS.
Rehearing en banc might make more sense considering the retard panel we apparently got.
Question for @Useful_Mistake or @AnOminous: In a civil case, it defaults to a bench trial unless either party requests a jury right? Would it be in any way advantageous for Null to request a jury trial or stick with a bench trial?
My guess is no. It would only cost more and could result in the legal issues being blurred over nonsensical claims that would time and money would have to be spent arguing about to avoid prejudice.
 
Well the 10th circuit sure seems retarded.

Sorry to hear this. It's one of those things where it's very scary the legal system can be able to flat out ignore it's job because of feelings and lies knowingly doing so.

But I have a lot of hope rusty being himself will fuck things up even in a biased towards him setting.

If that's the case, it'll make this victory sweeter. I got a gut feeling it'll be that way.
 
Yeah, looks like a decision is out. I just searched and says Oct 16, 2023. Here is the PDF for those that want to review and comment. I am not at my reg comp so can't extract pages as images. I have NOT read it, literally downloaded and upping it here. Tagging @Null so he is aware.
The Spirit of the couch cuck still haunts the farms.....
 
Would it be in any way advantageous for Null to request a jury trial or stick with a bench trial?
jury trial would be a disaster for null in my opinion
jurors dont give a shit about legal technicalities such as "but it wasnt actually hosted on the site itself, it was merely a link to another server hosting it!"
but jurors are very open to the kind of emotional pity party that greer is trying to pull - which wouldn't be a big deal if it was just greers "you hate the disabled" whining, but add all the msm shit about kiwi farms being a site for terrorists and school shooters that bullies six million trannies into suicide every year, and suddenly it's looking very bad for null.

much better to stick with a judge who might actually throw the case out based on greers legal work being complete garbage
 
Actually, am I off base here in that Greer has opened the door for Null to introduce discovery witnesses? Greer claimed, as affirmed by the 10th circuit, that the KiwiFarms is responsible for three suicides. I think the subject matter around these suicides is now relevant to the case.
I disagree that it's relevant, though if I am wrong about the jury stuff, I could see the relevance there (even though the district judge admitted being affected by the background, the judge nevertheless ruled impartially). But, yes, I do believe you are correct about Greer opening the door, but I am unsure as to what kind of witnesses Null would bring. Obviously, he could himself assert that this is false, but who else would have first hand knowledge of the truth or falsity of such claims? I couldn't be one, for example, because while I believe the suicides narrative is fake (in so far as it relates to us), I don't have any first hand knowledge that I could use to debunk it, perhaps with the sole exception of Byuu thing (if looking up a government database counts as firsthand knowledge). I could be a witness in asserting that harassment campaigns are against our rules and policies, though, if Null decided to go that route.
False actually. I reread what I wrote, and that part about public figures was nonsensical gibberish. I apologize. Going after individual offenders then could work very nicely. The question is, is Kiwi Farms a limited-purpose public figure or not? If it is, I do not like our chances. If we are not, I do. What's your take on it? I am never super confident on my public figure analyses (though they are better than Judge Chupp's, that's for sure).
they are trying to disbar him because he is a political enemy.
We are also a political enemy, though I won't jerk us and pretend we are as influential as Giuliani once was.
Sorry for the late reply.
Not forgiven. We will now make you into cute ladyboy for Russ to drool over.
Rehearing en banc might make more sense considering the retard panel we apparently got.
It was certainly retarded, but I still can't get over the fact that Soviet Union national wrote the decision potentially strengthening copyright law. But, yeah, like I said, he has 12 days remaining to file for a rehearing.
 
I disagree that it's relevant, though if I am wrong about the jury stuff, I could see the relevance there (even though the district judge admitted being affected by the background, the judge nevertheless ruled impartially). But, yes, I do believe you are correct about Greer opening the door, but I am unsure as to what kind of witnesses Null would bring. Obviously, he could himself assert that this is false, but who else would have first hand knowledge of the truth or falsity of such claims?
You don't bring "witnesses," you just get the bs "news" articles that Russ tried to include as evidence thrown out as hearsay, because they're out of court statements and neither Russ nor Null can depose the hack "journalists" to bring their testimony into court. And then you don't need to prove the falsity of the claims, because Russ doesn't have any evidence of their truth. All he has is hearsay.
 
you just get the bs "news" articles that Russ tried to include as evidence thrown out as hearsay
Helps that the district judge described it as "contain[ing] irrelevant facts, like allegations of a suicide allegedly connected to Kiwi Farms" when Russ submitted his supplemental brief. That could certainly be struck out, but I'm not sure if the stuff in his background section could.
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Can the lower court dismiss this lawsuit on other grounds (since I imagine there are many reasons to dismiss it) or does it have to go to trial now?
 
Can the lower court dismiss this lawsuit on other grounds (since I imagine there are many reasons to dismiss it) or does it have to go to trial now?
Do you mean sua sponte, or by some motion? Indeed, it could sua sponte dismiss the complaint if it "is patently obvious that the plaintiff could not prevail on the facts alleged". See Curley v. Perry, 246 F.3d 1278 (10th Cir. 2001). Dismissal by motion might run into the same issues as in the appeal, though.
 
I couldn't be one, for example, because while I believe the suicides narrative is fake (in so far as it relates to us), I don't have any first hand knowledge that I could use to debunk it, perhaps with the sole exception of Byuu thing (if looking up a government database counts as firsthand knowledge).
I think that's an official record subject to judicial notice. I also think it's so irrelevant it should be stricken from the record.
 
if null loses what does that mean anyway? does this give every other lolcow on the site the ability to sue if null refuses to take down their threads? or is russell here a special case?
It means you should kill yourself, or in the alternative read the last few pages. I seriously don’t get why you expect people to put more effort in answering you than you did in making your comment.
 
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