2023 Israel-Palestine Armed Conflict

Scrumption said:
I assume you’re referring to the talk point about 40 beheaded babies.

Hamas definitely killed a lot of babies. There is evidence they burned some alive. I believe there is confirmation of at least one babie that is decapitated. Forensic coroners have said that many of the victims of the attack are decapitated but because of the conditions of the bodies, they cannot yet specify if they were beheaded, their head was removed by a missile, or detached some other way. A forensic coroner in one video said some 80% of bodies showed clear signs of torture.

On the other hand, there are videos I saw of Hamas terrorists holding detached heads that clearly had been intentionally beheaded.

In the end, many people point out that whether there are 40 beheaded babies is immaterial when it is obvious that extreme cruelty and mass murder took place.
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Didn’t 4chan tried to spread rumors about one image of an dead baby to be like made by an AI then used an cheap ass tool to fool people with?
 
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Duke Nukem said:
This shit right here is exactly why I despise the western cheerleaders for Hamas, right fucking here. Among other things.

It's not hard people.

Yeah I know the numbers are fuzzy but who gives a shit.
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It's fucking bizarre. Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly pro-Israel but Hamas and other muslim extremist groups would kill a fuck ton. Literally murder people like me, either due to lack of faith or sexuality (atheism is a death sentence, so is being a faggot) yet I see ignorant motherfuckers acting like there isn't a massive cultural dichotomy sitting in the corner waiting to burn em, blow em up, or otherwise viciously end their lives. Worst Israel will do is shitty and transparent agitprop, idprop and tax grubbing.
 
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Netivot earlier source
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Netivot after a rocket attack source
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Images of rocket impact
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Jump said:
No.
Ben Shapiro posted the AI baby.
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The "AI baby" that didn't pass a shitty AI detection test, but obvious photoshops that replaced the charred baby with a dog did?
people taking those tests seriously are fucking hilarious, I even saw people posting proof that it passed the same test cropped or even a few times as is, its unreliable as fuck.
 
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The Israel Defense Forces' Maglan special unit used the innovative "Steel Sting" weapon for the first time in combat conditions. It destroyed a Hamas ter*orist organization launcher from which rockets were launched into Israel. The "Steel Sting" is a dual-guided mortar that allows for precise targeting of targets in dense buildings, while increasing the lethality of the hit and reducing the risk of hitting unauthorized targets. In the words of Col. Omer Cohen, the unit's commander: "Thanks to the accuracy, lethality and experience of its soldiers, the Maglan unit, in cooperation with the Air Force, has destroyed dozens of enemy targets using a variety of means, one of which is the Steel Sting precision mine.
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Mukhrani said:
This is a really common misconception, but that's not how the Dhimmi system worked. They paid different taxes which were often higher - sometimes by a lot, but mostly by a moderate amount - they weren't on top of Muslim taxes as non-Muslims didn't pay Zakat. Shariah law never applied to non-Muslims, they had their own parallel court system based on their own religion/culture. It's how things like winemaking survived in the Middle East through centuries of Muslim rule despite being completely banned by Shariah. The last part is true - religious minorities in the Caliphate were basically like little autonomous, self-governing entities. They didn't have to serve in the army, which is what the Dhimmi tax was construed as - it was a payment to defend their kingdom from attack. I remember one weird instance where the Caliph was overstretched and was unable to defend one of these communities, and he was required by religious law to refund that tax to them.
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Yeah, but in the same way that communism means a stateless, authorityless paradise of liberty and freedom from want. That is, on paper and under ideal fantasy conditions. Ask the early 20th century Armenians what happens when things go wrong under muslim rule, like when a societal/political scapegoat is needed etc. Or almost any minority religious group in much of the muslim world in modern times. Would you really want to roll those dice?


Do you think they'd mind if I showed up to the next meeting wearing this? I'm really excited for an opportunity to wear it in public for once.
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Are you kidding. The arabs and muslims were really buddy-buddy with the nazis and hitler. Supporting, them all the way on the so-called Jewish question.. potentially even egging them on. Remember that it was former nazis after the war that helped build the current Islamic militaristic/terror culture we have now. (quite a few orgs were directly trained, assisted and founded with that help)


Random Internet Person said:
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This one is total truth and pretty much explains all modern progressive thought. It's also what make progressive thought so fucking dangerous. It is divorced from reality, logic, cause and effect or history, and instead obsessed with identity games and oppression olympics. They will march right into oblivion, cheering it on and demanding it's advent, if the idea that existence seemed to hold the upper hand gained traction with their thinkers.
 
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Victory Leo said:
The "AI baby" that didn't pass a shitty AI detection test, but obvious photoshops that replaced the charred baby with a dog did?
people taking those tests seriously are fucking hilarious, I even saw people posting proof that it passed the same test cropped or even a few times as is, its unreliable as fuck.
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I already knew that AI detection software was all bunk when it couldn’t even detect regular drawn art from AI drawn art.
 
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Not just prayers: War sparks unprecedented mobilization by ultra-Orthodox Israelis​

Some 2,000 volunteer IDF soldiers are at the forefront of an effort that some hope will change the minority’s relationship with the rest of society long-term

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When war broke out, Pini Einhorn and Moishe Roth found themselves suddenly out of work.

The popular Haredi musician duo canceled all the concerts they had lined up for what was supposed to be one of the busiest times of the year, just after the Jewish autumn holidays.

Einhorn and Roth initially channeled their free time toward joining countless Israelis delivering food to soldiers and residents of the south. But the surplus of volunteers made the pair look for alternative ways to contribute, said Einhorn, a 34-year-old father of four.


So they decided to do what they know best: playing music for groups of people. In just a few days, the pair have visited over 100 houses of mourning in hopes of helping console families in the depths of sorrow as they observe the traditional seven-day shiva bereavement period for their slain loved ones. While musical instruments are generally prohibited by Jewish law during mourning periods, the two sing hymns when requested.

Their activities are part of an unprecedented push by Haredim, who by and large avoid army service, to contribute to the war effort in myriad ways — including by volunteering for the military.


Occurring at what is arguably a low point in relations between secular and Haredi Jews in Israel, some believe these new expressions of solidarity will help lead to long-term changes in each side’s attitudes toward the other.

“The Haredi public is mobilized in an unprecedented way,” said Yitzhak Pindrus, a lawmaker for the ultra-Orthodox United Torah Judaism party. “Everyone is doing something in addition to praying,” he told The Times of Israel.

At least 2,000 Haredi men have signed up to serve in the Israeli Defense Forces, according to Eliyahu Glantzenberg, a 38-year-old Haredi community activist from Petah Tikvah near Tel Aviv.

A high-tech professional working for the Freesbe branding agency, he launched an initiative together with the former top rabbi of the Israel Air Force, Moshe Raved, through which Haredim could sign up to be recruited into the army.

On Saturday, IDF Spokesman Rear Adm. Hagari said the IDF had received more than 2,000 requests from Haredim in recent days. They will begin to be drafted as volunteers on Monday, he said.

An abbreviated basic training is set to open for hundreds of them, the Israel Defense Forces Spokesperson’s Unit told The Times of Israel.

“It’s to fill gaps: drivers, programmers, cooks. Whatever’s necessary,” said Glantzenberg of the recruits.

The list of volunteers is growing as people from the Haredi world spread the word in synagogue and on WhatsApp groups, among those Haredim who use smartphones.

Haredi women and male yeshivah students younger than 26 are generally exempt from military service thanks to a controversial status quo agreement. In 2017, the High Court of Justice invalidated the legal exemption and ordered the government to pass a new conscription law. The government has extended the non-conscription policy and Haredi politicians have sought to pass legislation cementing the exemptions.


Many Haredim believe that studying Torah helps protect the Jewish people and even the state, while serving time in the army would dilute adherence to their strict ways of life and lead impressionable members of the community astray. Among non-Haredi Jews, this is often perceived as draft dodging by a group that refuses to integrate into mainstream society.

At the same time, authorities make no effort to recruit most Haredim who should legally be drafted, according to what Amir Vadmani, head of the IDF Manpower Directorate’s Planning and Research Department, told a Knesset committee in May.

“The undisputed reality is that the army did not want to conscript Haredim,” Glantzenberg said. The war “could change this: It is already making the army need more manpower and it’s making Haredim more interested in serving.”

Israel was changed forever on October 7, when Hamas killed about 1,400 in a brutal incursion into Israel, and kidnapped at least 200 more.

The resulting war is “changing the dynamic of Haredim vis-à-vis the army and vice versa,” Glantzenberg said.

It’s not the first time a war has had that effect. In 1991, as Iraqi Scuds rained down on Israel, many Haredi families brought the outside world into their homes for the first time in order to receive warnings and news.

“That’s when many Haredi families brought in radio transistors,” Yanki Farber, a prominent Haredi journalist, wrote last week in Behadrei Haredim, a Haredi news site.

Whereas subsequent wars hardly affected the Haredi public, the Hamas massacres “featured Haredi victims, in Ofakim and Sderot,” he wrote. In parallel, stiff opposition to attempts to pass a law exempting Haredim from army service convinced Haredi politicians that the legislative effort was a nonstarter, Farber said.

The scale of the atrocities penetrated the insular Haredi public, which largely shuns television and the internet, because of Zaka, the predominantly Haredi emergency service whose volunteers were among the first on the scene to witness the horrors, Farber noted.

In addition to the first responders, whose role has been highlighted in the media, hundreds of additional Zaka volunteers have prepared most of the terror victims’ bodies for burial.

“I have been doing this my whole life, but what I’ve seen here will haunt me forever,” said Reuven Reuven, a 41-year-old volunteer from Motza Ilit, about Kibbutz Be’eri, the scene of one of the October 7 attack’s most brutal pogroms.


Some radical Haredim have continued to harass and even assault other Haredim who serve in the army, which the radicals perceive as an immoral action.

One extremist was arrested on Monday in Jerusalem for accosting a Haredi man in uniform. But the war has further delegitimized the radicals’ position, according to Glantzenberg.

“Everybody now realizes we’re in the same boat,” he said.

Pindrus, the lawmaker, is not convinced that the war will bring about greater unity between Haredim, whom many seculars view as backward freeloaders, and seculars, whom many Haredim view as godless heathens undermining Jewish life.

“I’d love to tell you positive things about imminent fraternity,” he told The Times of Israel. “But we have entered an enormous event, whose magnitude, duration, and fallout are all completely unknown to us. We may emerge more united. We may come out even more divided. It all depends on God’s will and our choices.”


But signs of change seem to be everywhere, including a recorded speech by Rabbi Menachem Mendel Hager, a top leader of the Viznitz Hasidic dynasty in Bnei Brak. Addressing the relatives of some 200 abducted Israelis in Gaza, he switched from Yiddish, the language he almost always uses for public addresses, and told them in fluent but heavily accented Hebrew: “We are one people, the people of Hashem,” meaning God.

Haredi women are also part of the effort. Michal Orzel, a Haredi mother of five, went to donate blood as soon as she heard about the massacres. “We’ve never seen such an attack. It shocked me to my core and the immediate reaction was to donate blood for the first time in my life.”

Giving blood was only the beginning of Orzel’s work in connection with the war. Relying on help from her husband and other women from her community who are taking care of Orzel’s children, she now spends her days visiting families of injured or killed soldiers and terror victims.

“I come to each family, find out what they need,” she said. “Whatever I can do, I do. If it’s something I can’t do, I use my contacts in my community to find the right solution.”

This, Orzel said, is “standard practice” in Haredi communities, where members pool resources and run charity networks to mitigate relatively small incomes.

“Haredi communities have this built-in charity infrastructure that, before the war, few seculars have been exposed to,” Orzel said. “Now I feel that for the first time, secular Israelis are seeing this aspect of our community.”


Einhorn and Roth, the musicians, have parlayed their celebrity status in Haredi circles into raising millions of shekels toward buying gifts for orphaned Israeli children. The duo set up a nonprofit, Am Israel Chai, and have been distributing the toys at dozens of shivas, where they also perform for mourners in their living rooms to alleviate their pain.

On Tuesday, Einhorn visited the Netivot home of a family that lost three members in one rocket strike, the hundredth shiva he has attended since Hamas terrorists launched their murderous rampage on October 7. Raphael Fahimi, his son-in-law Netanel Maskelchi, and his son Raphael Meir died in the explosion.

“There’s nothing you can say except: ‘I love you.’ We came with a load of toys for the siblings, we sang some quiet hymns with the relatives and we left heartbroken,” he recalled.

After that encounter, “I was sitting on the couch at home, and I felt I couldn’t get up and go to another shiva,” said Einhorn.

Despite the dip in energy, his visits have continued.
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RadioactiveMonkeyMan said:
It's fucking bizarre. Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly pro-Israel but Hamas and other muslim extremist groups would kill a fuck ton. Literally murder people like me, either due to lack of faith or sexuality (atheism is a death sentence, so is being a faggot) yet I see ignorant motherfuckers acting like there isn't a massive cultural dichotomy sitting in the corner waiting to burn em, blow em up, or otherwise viciously end their lives. Worst Israel will do is shitty and transparent agitprop, idprop and tax grubbing.
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Yeah, this. I don’t understand western lefties attempting to justify it all under the assertions that Hamas are actually peaceful, humane people but have to do these things in order to “resist oppression”. As if they simply wouldn’t act out at all “if their land wasn’t stolen”
Like if their violence was entirely due to their claim to this specific patch of land, then why isn’t the behavior exclusive to the Palestinians? Why does it happen worldwide and most often from people who are from a totally different Arab nation, have never been anywhere near Gaza, and have no real skin in this game?
What “occupation” was being resisted when 50 innocent nightclub patrons were massacred by an American-born terrorist of Afghan descent? What blockade was being protested when 86 French partygoers were mowed down by a French citizen of Tunisian descent? What land was being fought for when 22 Ariana Grande fans were blown up by a British citizen of Libyan descent?
This is clearly not a problem just caused by poor oppressed people “resisting” some Jews being on a patch of land that Britain gave them. Slaughtering all infidels is literally a fundamental part of radical Islam and they would do it no matter what. The Jews could do absolutely nothing to Palestine and let them live as freely as they want, and Hamas would still try to kill Jews every single day. If the Jews gave Palestine every bit of the land and moved all their people somewhere else, I’m sure Muslim extremists would go to where ever the Jews are to commit acts of terror on them. And even if they managed to exterminate every last Jew, I doubt they’d call it a day and go home. They’d move their focus to every other non-Muslim in the Middle East and to the non-Muslims in western countries. In a weird way, it’s kind of a good thing for the rest of us that Israel exists right there because without their constant focus on Jew killing, they’d probably be spending a lot more time fucking with the rest of us overseas.
 
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