2023 Israel-Palestine Armed Conflict

Orbán is Bibi's buddy. When Orbán says we can't let in non whites, Bibi smiles and gives him a thumbs up. When Bibi does a bit of gassing the pali, Orbán nods and gives him the Deus Vult seal of crusade. They basically rub each others' backs. "I can do this thing, it is a good thing to do, see the Jews fon't think I am nazi/ see the Christians agree so I can't be too zionist.

Actually lol:ed

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The secret handshake.

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There's just nothing better than leftists getting destroyed by the pets they helped the jews import. Get rekt fuckers.
Keep in mind that the majority of refugees were imported under the Merkel government which on paper was conservative. While it is tempting to blame the left, in the case of Germany both blocks fucked it up and keep fucking it up.
 
Actually lol:ed

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The secret handshake.

AI generated

While it is a bizarre and outré union, it makes pragmatic and geopolitical sense, and both benefit. Bibi can counter Orbán's critics, and Orbán can give Bibi clout with the conservatives.

It is also an odd thing with Turkey. Hungarians generally carry grudges against ideologies, not ethnicities. Save for gyppos, of course.

So when Türkyie went all secular and acted good boy, they were mostly forgiven. Same with Russia Ork Boyz.

However, Islam and Communism is still very much not kosher.

I am not sure what causes this phenomenon.

But I had seen pictures of Turkish nationalists (not the islamist type, but fashy) posing proudly with their Altaic Hungaryan brothers in the Kurultaj event, a big gathering of Altaic ethnicities. (It is generally a big middle ages larp where mongols, hungarians, finns, kazaksh, very naice, turkmens, japs and gooks all go together and be autistic about horse riding and swords and bows.)
 
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Ironic, since one of the captured Hamas fighters is on tape claiming that his friend had sex with the dead body of a woman they killed.
The cope for that is that Israel forced them to say that.


It was 3 a.m. on Oct. 7, and Ronen Bar, the head of Israel’s domestic security service, still could not determine if what he was seeing was just another Hamas military exercise.
At the headquarters of his service, Shin Bet, officials had spent hours monitoring Hamas activity in the Gaza Strip, which was unusually active for the middle of the night. Israeli intelligence and national security officials, who had convinced themselves that Hamas had no interest in going to war, initially assumed it was just a nighttime exercise.
Their judgment that night might have been different had they been listening to traffic on the hand-held radios of Hamas militants. But Unit 8200, Israel’s signals intelligence agency, had stopped eavesdropping on those networks a year earlier because they saw it as a waste of effort.
As time passed that night, Mr. Bar thought that Hamas might attempt a small-scale assault. He discussed his concerns with Israel’s top generals and ordered the “Tequila” team — a group of elite counterterrorism forces — to deploy to Israel’s southern border.
Until nearly the start of the attack, nobody believed the situation was serious enough to wake up Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, according to three Israeli defense officials.
Within hours, the Tequila troops were embroiled in a battle with thousands of Hamas gunmen who penetrated Israel’s vaunted border fence, sped in trucks and on motorbikes into southern Israel and attacked villages and military bases.
The most powerful military force in the Middle East had not only completely underestimated the magnitude of the attack, it had totally failed in its intelligence-gathering efforts, mostly due to hubris and the mistaken assumption that Hamas was a threat contained.
Despite Israel’s sophisticated technological prowess in espionage, Hamas gunmen had undergone extensive training for the assault, virtually undetected for at least a year. The fighters, who were divided into different units with specific goals, had meticulous information on Israel’s military bases and the layout of kibbutzim.
The country’s once invincible sense of security was shattered.
More than 1,400 people were killed, including many women, children and old people who were murdered systematically and brutally. Hundreds are held hostage or are still missing. Israel has responded with a ferocious bombardment campaign on Gaza, killing more than 8,000 Palestinians and wounding thousands more, according to the Hamas-run health ministry. The Israeli military on Sunday signaled a heavier assault on Gaza, saying it had expanded its ground incursion overnight. Even before that inquiry, it is clear the attacks were possible because of a cascade of failures over recent years — not hours, days or weeks. A New York Times examination, based on dozens of interviews with Israeli, Arab, European and American officials, as well as a review of Israeli government documents and evidence collected since the Oct. 7 raid, shows that:
Israeli security officials spent months trying to warn Mr. Netanyahu that the political turmoil caused by his domestic policies was weakening the country’s security and emboldening Israel’s enemies. The prime minister continued to push those policies. On one day in July he even refused to meet a senior general who came to deliver a threat warning based on classified intelligence, according to Israeli officials.
Israeli officials misjudged the threat posed by Hamas for years, and more critically in the run-up to the attack. The official assessment of Israeli military intelligence and the National Security Council since May 2021 was that Hamas had no interest in launching an attack from Gaza that might invite a devastating response from Israel, according to five people familiar with the assessments who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive details. Instead, Israeli intelligence assessed that Hamas was trying to foment violence against Israelis in the West Bank, which is controlled by its rival, the Palestinian Authority.
The belief by Mr. Netanyahu and top Israeli security officials that Iran and Hezbollah, its most powerful proxy force, presented the gravest threat to Israel diverted attention and resources away from countering Hamas. In late September, senior Israeli officials told The Times they were concerned that Israel might be attacked in the coming weeks or months on several fronts by Iran-backed militia groups, but made no mention of Hamas initiating a war with Israel from the Gaza Strip.
American spy agencies in recent years had largely stopped collecting intelligence on Hamas and its plans, believing the group was a regional threat that Israel was managing.
Overall, arrogance among Israeli political and security officials convinced them that the country’s military and technological superiority to Hamas would keep the terrorist group in check.
“They were able to trick our collection, our analysis, our conclusions and our strategic understanding,” Eyal Hulata, Israel’s national security adviser from 2021 until early this year, said during a discussion last week in Washington sponsored by the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, a think tank.
“I don’t think there was anyone who was involved with affairs with Gaza that shouldn’t ask themselves how and where they were also part of this massive failure,” he added.
Many senior officials have accepted responsibility, but Mr. Netanyahu has not. At 1 a.m. Sunday in Israel, after his office was asked for comment on this article, he posted a message on X, formerly Twitter, that repeated remarks he made to The New York Times and blamed the military and intelligence services for failing to provide him with any warning on Hamas.
“Under no circumstances and at no stage was Prime Minister Netanyahu warned of war intentions on the part of Hamas,” the post read in Hebrew. “On the contrary, the assessment of the entire security echelon, including the head of military intelligence and the head of Shin Bet, was that Hamas was deterred and was seeking an arrangement.”
In the resulting furor, Benny Gantz, a member of his war cabinet, publicly rebuked Mr. Netanyahu, saying that “leadership means displaying responsibility,” and urged the prime minister to retract the post. It was later deleted, and Mr. Netanyahu apologized in a new one.
On Sunday, Shin Bet promised a thorough investigation after the war. The I.D.F. declined to comment.
The last time Israelis’ collective belief in their country’s security was similarly devastated was 50 years earlier, at the start of the Yom Kippur War, when Israel was caught off guard by an assault by Egyptian and Syrian forces. In an echo of that attack, Hamas succeeded because Israeli officials made many of the same mistakes that were made in 1973.
The Yom Kippur War was “a classic example of how intelligence fails when the policy and intelligence communities build a feedback loop that reinforces their prejudices and blinds them to changes in the threat environment,” Bruce Riedel, a former top Middle East analyst at the Central Intelligence Agency, wrote in a 2017 research paper about the 1973 war.
In an interview this month, Mr. Riedel said that Mr. Netanyahu was reaping the consequences of focusing on Iran as the existential threat to Israel while largely ignoring an enemy in his backyard.
“Bibi’s message to Israelis has been that the real threat is Iran,” he said, using Mr. Netanyahu’s nickname. “That with the occupation of the West Bank and the siege of Gaza, the Palestinian issue is no longer a threat to Israel’s security. All of those assumptions were shattered on Oct. 7.” On July 24, two senior Israeli generals arrived at the Knesset, Israel’s parliament, to deliver urgent warnings to Israeli lawmakers, according to three Israeli defense officials.
The Knesset was scheduled that day to give final approval to one of Mr. Netanyahu’s attempts to curb the power of Israel’s judiciary — an effort that had convulsed Israeli society, ignited massive street protests and led to large-scale resignations from the military reserves.
A growing portion of the Air Force’s operational pilots was threatening to refuse to report to duty if the legislation passed.
In the briefcase of one of the generals, Aharon Haliva, the head of the Israeli Defense Forces’ Military Intelligence Directorate, were highly classified documents detailing a judgment by intelligence officials that the political turmoil was emboldening Israel’s enemies. One document stated that the leaders of what Israeli officials call the “axis of resistance” — Iran, Syria, Hamas, Hezbollah and Palestinian Islamic Jihad — believed this was a moment of Israeli weakness and a time to strike.
Hezbollah’s leader, Hassan Nasrallah, according to one of the documents, said that it was necessary to prepare for a major war. General Haliva was ready to tell the coalition leaders that the political turmoil was creating an opportunity for Israel’s enemies to attack, particularly if there were more resignations in the military. Only two members of the Knesset came to hear his briefing.
The legislation passed overwhelmingly.
Separately, Gen. Herzi Halevi, the military’s chief of staff, tried to deliver the same warnings to Mr. Netanyahu. The prime minister refused to meet him, the officials said. Mr. Netanyahu’s office did not respond to a request for comment about this meeting. In February and March, Hezbollah had sent explosive-laden drones toward Israeli gas rigs. In March, a militant climbed over the border fence from Lebanon into Israel, carrying several powerful bombs, weapons, phones and an electric bike on which he traveled to a major northern intersection. He then used a powerful charge, apparently trying to blow up a bus.
On May 21, Hezbollah staged for apparently the first time war games at one of its training sites in Aaramta in south Lebanon. Hezbollah launched rockets and flew drones that dropped explosives on a simulated Israeli settlement.
Israeli officials believed that Hezbollah was leading the planning for a coordinated attack against Israel, but not one that would prompt an all-out war.
The officials’ concerns grew through August and September, and General Halevi went public with his concerns.
“We must be more prepared than ever for a multi-arena and extensive military conflict,” he said at a military ceremony on Sept. 11, just weeks before the attack.
Mr. Netanyahu’s allies went on Israeli television and condemned General Halevi for sowing panic.
In a series of meetings, Shin Bet gave similar warnings to senior Israeli officials as General Halevi. Eventually, Mr. Bar also went public.
“From the investigations we are doing we can say today that the political instability and the growing division are a shot of encouragement to the countries of the axis of evil, the terrorist organizations and the individual threats,” Mr. Bar said in a speech.
Mr. Netanyahu’s government also ignored warnings from Israel’s neighbors. As the custodian of Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem, Jordan has traditionally been an important mediator between Palestinians and Israel’s government on the Aqsa Mosque compound, the third most holy site in Islam. The mosque compound has seen repeated raids by Israeli forces over the years, and Hamas has said that it launched this month’s attack in part as retaliation for those acts.
But Jordan found that when Mr. Netanyahu formed a government late last year, the most far right in recent history, it was less receptive to their warnings that the incidents at the Aqsa Mosque compound was stirring up sentiment inside Palestinian territories that could boil over into violence, according to two Arab officials with knowledge of the relationship.
The Wrong Focus
While security and intelligence officials were right about a coming attack, their intense focus on Hezbollah and Iran had a tragic effect: Far less attention was paid to the threats from Gaza. Since Israel’s withdrawal in 2005 and Hamas’s evolution from a purely guerrilla organization into the governing power of Gaza in 2007, Hamas had only periodic skirmishes with the Israeli military.
Under four different prime ministers, Israel repeatedly decided that reoccupying Gaza and crushing Hamas would cost too many lives and do too much damage to Israel’s international reputation.
Israel knew that Hamas, which Iran supports with funding, training and weapons, was growing stronger over time. But officials thought they could contain Hamas with an extensive network of human spies, sophisticated surveillance tools that would deliver early warnings of an attack and border fortifications to deter a Hamas ground assault. They also relied on the Iron Dome air defense system for intercepting rockets and missiles launched from Gaza.
The strategy, confirmed by multiple Israeli officials, bore some fruit. Over the years, Israel’s investment in penetrating Hamas’s inner circle in Gaza allowed Israel to uncover the group’s attack plans and occasionally led to assassinations of Hamas leaders. Publicly, Mr. Netanyahu used blunt rhetoric about Hamas. His election slogan in 2008 was “Strong Against Hamas,” and in one campaign video at the time he pledged: “We will not stop the I.D.F. We will finish the job. We will topple the terror regime of Hamas.”
Over time, however, he came to see Hamas as a way to balance power against the Palestinian Authority, which has administrative control over the West Bank and has long sought a peace agreement in Israel in exchange for a Palestinian state.
Mr. Netanyahu told aides over the years that a feeble Palestinian Authority lowered the pressure on him to make concessions to Palestinians in negotiations, according to several former Israeli officials and people close to Mr. Netanyahu. An official in Mr. Netanyahu’s office, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, denied this had been the prime minister’s policy.
But there is no question that Israeli officials viewed Hamas as a regional threat, not a global terrorist organization like Hezbollah or the Islamic State. This view was shared in Washington, and American intelligence agencies dedicated few resources to collecting information on the group.
Some parts of the American government even believed that Hamas operatives could be recruited as sources of information about terrorist groups considered more urgent priorities in Washington.
Jonathan Schanzer, a former Treasury Department official and now the senior vice president for research at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, recalled a meeting he had in 2015 with American intelligence and law enforcement officials about suspected Hamas operatives inside the United States.
During the meeting, he recalled, the officials told him they were trying to turn the Hamas operatives into “assets” in the fight against the Islamic State. Israeli officials firmly believed that “The Barrier” — a nearly 40-mile-long reinforced concrete wall above and below ground, completed in 2021 — would hermetically seal off Gaza. There was also a surveillance system at the border based almost exclusively on cameras, sensors and remote-operated “sight-shooter” systems, four senior Israeli military officers told The Times.
Senior Israeli military officials believed that the combination of remote surveillance and machine-gun systems with the formidable wall would make it almost impossible to infiltrate Israel, and thus reduce the need for a large number of soldiers to be stationed at the bases.
But Hamas’s attack exposed the fragility of that technology. The group used explosive drones that damaged the cellular antennas and the remote firing systems that protected the fence between Gaza and Israel.
To get around Israel’s powerful surveillance technology, Hamas fighters also appeared to enforce strict discipline among the group’s ranks to not discuss its activities on mobile phones. This allowed them to pull off the attack without detection, one European official said.
The group most likely divided its fighters into smaller cells, each probably only trained for a specific objective. That way, the rank and file did not understand the scale of the attacks they were preparing for and could not give away the operation if caught, a European official said, based on his analysis of how the attack unfolded and from the videos the group disseminated from the operation.
Hamas may have learned such operational discipline from Hezbollah, which has long confused Israeli forces on the battlefield by dividing its fighters into smaller units of friends or relatives, according to Lebanese officials with ties to the group. If the fighters speak openly on cellphones to coordinate military operations, Lebanese officials with ties to the group said, part of their code is to speak in childhood memories — for example, asking to meet up in a field where they once played together.
Hamas claimed that 35 drones took part in the opening strike, including the Zawari, an explosive-laden drone.
“We started receiving messages that there was a raid on every reporting line,” testified one soldier, who was at the Gaza Division base on the day of the invasion, in a conversation with the “Hamakom Hachi Ham Bagehinom” (“The Hottest Place in Hell”) website.
“On every reporting line, swarms of terrorists were coming in,” the soldier added. “The forces did not have time to come and stop it. There were swarms of terrorists, something psychotic, and we were simply told that our only choice was to take our feet and flee for our lives.”
In a conversation with military investigators two weeks after the attack, soldiers who survived the assault testified that the Hamas training was so precise that they damaged a row of cameras and communication systems so that “all our screens turned off in almost the exact same second.” The result of all this was a near total blindness on the morning of the attack.
After the fighting had stopped, Israeli soldiers found hand-held radios on the dead bodies of some of the Hamas militants — the same radios that Israeli intelligence officials had decided a year ago were no longer worth monitoring.
 
I was debating whether giving this any oxygen was worth it. I think it's better to get ahead of it, though, because it seems like this is going to be the new "Zionists lie! Not all 40 babies were beheaded!!!", and I don't want to have to deal with more /pol/acks shitting up the thread than I have to.

For the past day or so, there's been a story circulating on Twitter that a baby was roasted alive by Hamas in an oven. What seems to have caused it to take off was this single tweet quoting a speech given by the head of United Hatzalah (a volunteer EMS organization) at a Republican Jewish Committee event:
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The relevant portion of Beer's remarks:

When I first saw this, a couple of things immediately stuck out to me:

1. We've heard plenty of (true) stories of Hamas atrocities over the past few weeks, including babies burned alive and beheaded, a child's fingers cut off, a mother's breast cut off, father's eye gouged out, and worse. It's strange that we're only hearing about an event of such savagery for the first time three weeks in.

2. Not only is there no official confirmation of any of this, you wouldn't expect United Hatzalah to be the source in any case. They deal with living patients, not dead victims. That's a job for Zaka, the IDF Military Rabbinate, etc.

An Israeli journalist checked with all the relevant bodies - the army, Zaka, the ministry of religious affairs (they handle burials), the military rabbinate in particular - and they say they know of no such incident.
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Once again, I stress that no Israeli official whatsoever has ever put forward this story. Beer acted incredibly irresponsibly, either out of desire for attention for his organization or plain naivete.
 
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I was wondering where the hell was the rumor of a baby in an oven came from. Thank you for floating this up. Very irresponsible. If Beer was saying this in good faith the only thing I can think of is that they were trying to find survivors and maaaaaybe the terrorists just hid one of the bodies in an oven to make things difficult. Still sounds dumb as it is.
 
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If Beer was saying this in good faith the only thing I can think of is that they were trying to find survivors and maaaaaybe the terrorists just hid one of the bodies in an oven to make things difficult. Still sounds dumb as it is.
The source was allegedly a Hatzalah volunteer at Shura who told him that he saw a baby with "oven marks", whatever that's supposed to mean:
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The German police union is warning that the police forces in Germany are at their limit and if there isn't political action taken it will eventually be "might makes right" on German streets. As of now the police forces are still in control, but they are under immense pressure. Should their be widespread riot this might spell the end of the German government that already has very bad polling numbers. While the greens wouldn't be spooked by it, their liberal coalition partner is likely to abandon ship to maintain any hope of making it back into the Bundestag next election.
🙄 Rainer Wendt from one of the THREE police unions that exist in germany is an infamous fear mongerer with a criminal & right wing history.

He needs to continue but it's still fear mongering. As long as it hurts the greens and the Kebabs it's good.
 
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Hostage video, no translation at this time
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Here's a translation of a translation. You should roughly understand what she's saying from this:
Benjamin Netanyahu Hello, we have been in Hamas captivity for 23 days, yesterday there was a press conference for the families of the prisoners, and we know that there was supposed to be a ceasefire, and you were supposed to release us, you should have released us, You promised to release us. However, we are suffering from your political, security and military failure, because of the “disappointment” you caused on the 7th of October, because no soldier was in the place and no one came to us, and no one defended us, and we are naive citizens, citizens who pay taxes to the State of Israel. We are now in captivity under "no conditions" conditions. You are killing us, do you want to kill us all, you want the army to kill us, is it not enough that you slaughtered everyone, is it not enough for you that there were Israeli citizens killed, release us now, release their citizens and prisoners now (you mean the Palestinian prisoners), release us, release Everyone, we deserve to go back to our families, now now now.
 
This is so fucked up. I feel like something is wrong with me when reading things like this.
Having played a bunch of Milsims I can just remember how it happened to me and everyone else and how goofy it is and that people don't rage as much as they could cause they know it can happen to anyone, including themselves.

But here we have it happen in real life, it costs the life of a real comrade, someone in an actual war wasn't paying enough attention to avoid it. It's tragic, but it doesn't feel as tragic as it should. I mean imagine being crushed by a tank, it's far worse than being shot or blown up.

I haven't played a PC game in a month, a milsim in a year, I got the urge to play one after seeing some of the action here, but Im wondering if I even should ever gain. Sorry for the off-tangent.

This shit re-arranges your neurons.
I was talking to one of my buddies this weekend who works in a manufacturing facility. He said that two guys were standing talking to each other about 5 feet apart when the rig on a crane snapped and a multi-ton piece of metal fell and crushed one of them. It flattened him like a pancake. Imagine one minute you’re chatting a guy up and then - bam - he’s gone. It happened a while back and the guy who lived still doesn’t talk about it.
 
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