Cogent's CEO is directly involved in trying to censor the Kiwi Farms

[I'll Call Now]

Dong gone can ddos the farms all he wants and get shit blacklisted. I'm still going to educate people about him and his consent accidents.

 

[Merton J. Dingle]

But no, it is instead selling out to remove some videos and images that could have been perfectly well described to you instead.

Or in some cases found on the first page of a search engine's results.

 

[Hepativore]

Perhaps we should start a fundraiser to hire publicists to start spamming articles online about how great we are to combat all of the negative press that keeps spewing the same BS about us over and over.

 

[0gh]

a valid motive to request an unblock.

This makes no sense to me. What's the valid reason for the block? What if Police worked like this - Give us a valid reason to NOT arrest you.

 

[DeepLurker]

This makes no sense to me. What's the valid reason for the block? What if Police worked like this - Give us a valid reason to NOT arrest you.

They told me valid reasons are if it's a business or governmental server. Luckily, I think the guy just lied and said it was blocked on their end to avoid having to look into it. Now the clearnet works without them doing anything.

 

[Cpt. Stud Beefpile]

o7, Alexhost.

 

[Max2019]

$75,000 to take something to trial. At the very least. At a fucking minimum.

If you want to pay me $75,000 in cryptocurrency I will sue Liz Fong-Jones tomorrow.

Would it be possible to get a No Win No Fee lawyer to take this on? I'm guessing the answer could well be "No" for various reasons.

 

[DDBCAE CBAADCBE]

Isn’t the CEO a convicted pedophile?

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

Is there any chance that the host who got their IPs blackholed might take some sort of action against Cogent?

 

[Null]

Would it be possible to get a No Win No Fee lawyer to take this on? I'm guessing the answer could well be "No" for various reasons.

When you sue someone, you're not just paying an attorney. There's court fees, and you always risk losing in such a spectacular way you owe opposing counsel's fees, which is especially the case in jurisdictions like the state of California which has anti-SLAPP laws (and Anime Enjoyers may be familiar with the outcome of losing lawsuits to anti-SLAPP).

 

[SpergRush]

Cogent tried to block The Pirate Bay back in 2017. TPB is still up, so I guess they didn't succeed.

Link: https://torrentfreak.com/internet-b...cks-pirate-bay-and-other-pirate-sites-170209/

@Null Here are some additional backup plans to try as this continues:
- Rebranding. Become the DodoFarms. Have some popup shit saying the TOS explicitly prohibits users from "making people kill themselves". At least this might force journalists to have to write a whole new series of articles.
- Some sort of distributed network structure. What if you have multiple domains and hosts, possibly even outsourced to trusted partners. They re-serve content from your main server, which you keep secret. More targets, more LLCs, maybe harder to remove. Heck, maybe even each of these has a different "brand"... kiwifarms, dodofarms, eagleranch, vultureculture whatever.

Im sure the rebranding is like plan F not plan B. VultureCulture is legit though, come on. It does feel like a name change is a loss. Nevertheless rebranding might be somewhat effective if they have to repeat spend all this social capital once again for a cloudflare removal, hurricane electric, etc. Etc. Maybe some of these companies weren't too thrilled with being bullied last time and will take a different track next time.

Edit to add: "censoring" a couple posts they named IS the right move. If they respond to it, maybe lines of communication can be established where some of this can either a) be resolved or b) they can provide evidence for future lawsuit

 

[Creative Username]

Rebranding. Become the DodoFarms. Have some popup shit saying the TOS explicitly prohibits users from "making people kill themselves". At least this might force journalists to have to write a whole new series of articles.

This has already been discussed. Journos would just need to make a single article that says "DodoFarms, formerly Kiwi Farms, is a right-wing harrasment site founded by Joshua Moon..." and then the Wikipedia article would simply be renamed. Boom. Right back where it started.

Some sort of distributed network structure. What if you have multiple domains and hosts, possibly even outsourced to trusted partners. They re-serve content from your main server, which you keep secret. More targets, more LLCs, maybe harder to remove. Heck, maybe even each of these has a different "brand"... kiwifarms, dodofarms, eagleranch, vultureculture whatever.

 

[Cpt. Stud Beefpile]

- Some sort of distributed network structure. What if you have multiple domains and hosts, possibly even outsourced to trusted partners. They re-serve content from your main server, which you keep secret. More targets, more LLCs, maybe harder to remove. Heck, maybe even each of these has a different "brand"... kiwifarms, dodofarms, eagleranch, vultureculture whatever.

The problem with doing this the 'traditional' way is massive increases in hosting costs and administration. Not to mention way more security exposure.

I've wondered about reposting select content from the farms on like-minded places like Mumsnet and conservative websites - things that normies would actually find interest in like troon groomers on their kids' MMO games. Perhaps distributed networks like I2P and Freenet could be a way to increase the Farms' name exposure without trying to clone the entire damn thing.

 

[SpergRush]

This has already been discussed. Journos would just need to make a single article that says "DodoFarms, formerly Kiwi Farms, is a right-wing harrasment site founded by Joshua Moon..." and then the Wikipedia article would simply be renamed. Boom. Right back where it started.

So then you change it again and they all have to edit their articles again. Make them jump through your hoops. Rename it "LizDongConsentAccidentFarms" lmao. This strategy should absolutely be tried if Null ever is close to throwing in the towel.

You are making it hard for them. They made whatever phone calls they had to make to get those articles written. Now they have to go make phone calls again to get them changed. Then the next day, they do it again?

Can you imagine that call "hi washington post can you change that article because kiwifarms changed their name again... yea its lizdongconsentaccidentfarms.com now... no yea i know its a mouthful..."

"Hi washingtonpost i know i just called yesterday.... yea its kiwifarms again... yea they renamed again... yea its stinkditchfarms.com now.... i know its awful..."

For the cost of 1 name change you force dozens of phone calls and hours of work by multiple douchebags and big expenditure of social capital. Thats good asymmetric warfare tactic right there. Thats like trading an RPG for a supply truck - no brainer!

The problem with doing this the 'traditional' way is massive increases in hosting costs and administration. Not to mention way more security exposure.

I've wondered about reposting select content from the farms on like-minded places like Mumsnet and conservative websites - things that normies would actually find interest in like troon groomers on their kids' MMO games. Perhaps distributed networks like I2P and Freenet could be a way to increase the Farms' name exposure without trying to clone the entire damn thing.

Im not saying you clone anything. Maybe you do some caching. But overall these relays that are basically just redirecting traffic but hiding the server they are forwarding requests to and responses from. Let users apply to be a mirror and do nothing but pass along packets. Let these users/partners pay for the hosting themselves to the extent they want to. I guess there are security risks here if a mirror was malicious and man-in-the-middled but you educate people on how to validate mirrors and list the approved ones on Telegram.

Real KF server hosting costs would be no different, same # of requests in theory. As for these relay mirrors, each would only have to deal with a portion of the total bandwidth but my feeling is they wouldn't need that much compute to just pass requests & responses along. I'd be curious what the KF bandwidth and total traffic actually is. Maybe we can estimate what a cloud relay would cost.

Again maybe this isn't the next fallback plan, but its just one more tool to try in the arsenal. The more targets you present, the more they have to take down, which ultimately means they spend more social capital. Their social capital isn't infinite and neither is the attention, interest, and effort of all these infrastructure providers.

 

[DavidS877]

Im not saying you clone anything. Maybe you do some caching. But overall these relays that are basically just redirecting traffic but hiding the server they are forwarding requests to and responses from. Let users apply to be a mirror and do nothing but pass along packets. Let these users/partners pay for the hosting themselves to the extent they want to. I guess there are security risks here if a mirror was malicious and man-in-the-middled but you educate people on how to validate mirrors and list the approved ones on Telegram.

This is, of course, exactly what he's doing now. Just on his own VPS/servers. Which makes sense, how do you vet Internet Retards(tm) so they don't leak your private back end IP addresses? You'd really not want them to terminate TLS/SSL as they could then easily MITM, either with a KF or their own domain name. At least a pure TCP proxy compromise should give a cert error.

The two things that would probably be handy are: Smart DNS, with integrated monitoring and global load balancing, Automation like Salt/Ansible/Puppet/Terrorform/etc if he's not already using it for the proxy nodes.

 

[Creative Username]

I've wondered about reposting select content from the farms on like-minded places like Mumsnet and conservative websites - things that normies would actually find interest in like troon groomers on their kids' MMO games.

This would be simple - get a user who uses KF and other sites to repost select content on the other site. Certain things would need editing. Tone would need to be altered and made more professional, niggerwords would have to be removed, and TOSes would need to be complied with. If we had a dedicated volunteer team of OP-writers and distributors, this would be quite simple. In a way, the CWCki is already this: it takes CWC-related sperging from the Farms and collects it in an easy-to-digest wiki format.

Perhaps distributed networks like I2P and Freenet could be a way to increase the Farms' name exposure without trying to clone the entire damn thing.

It wouldn't increase exposure by much, considering the fact that John T. Normalguy isn't a habitual I2P or Freenet user, since he prefers Facebook, X (formerly Twitter,) and Youtube.

So then you change it again and they all have to edit their articles again. Make them jump through your hoops. Rename it "LizDongConsentAccidentFarms" lmao. This strategy should absolutely be tried if Null ever is close to throwing in the towel.

This would work for a few changes, but then the journos would say: "It has gone by many names, but the most prominent one was Kiwi Farms. This right-wing incel forum has caused..."
Also, user counts would dwindle rapidly as the name changes occur, and Josh likes having more than 3 terminally online autists reading and posting to his forum.

Im not saying you clone anything. Maybe you do some caching. But overall these relays that are basically just redirecting traffic but hiding the server they are forwarding requests to and responses from. Let users apply to be a mirror and do nothing but pass along packets. Let these users/partners pay for the hosting themselves to the extent they want to. I guess there are security risks here if a mirror was malicious and man-in-the-middled but you educate people on how to validate mirrors and list the approved ones on Telegram.

Real KF server hosting costs would be no different, same # of requests in theory. As for these relay mirrors, each would only have to deal with a portion of the total bandwidth but my feeling is they wouldn't need that much compute to just pass requests & responses along. I'd be curious what the KF bandwidth and total traffic actually is. Maybe we can estimate what a cloud relay would cost.

Again maybe this isn't the next fallback plan, but its just one more tool to try in the arsenal. The more targets you present, the more they have to take down, which ultimately means they spend more social capital. Their social capital isn't infinite and neither is the attention, interest, and effort of all these infrastructure providers.

I am not a doomer, and I'd like to say that this is some of the most extremely unrealistic optimism I've seen in a while. This sounds good in theory, but would turn into a completely chaotic clusterfuck in the real world. Mirrors would get taken down at record speeds since mirror hosts wouldn't know what Josh does; mirror hosts would take bribes and fork over user data despite being trusted; mirror hosts would misconfigure their mirrors and get cracked; mirror hosts would host mirrors on really slow platforms and degrade user experience; mirrors would be hard to find; mirror sites would degrade SEO; and it just goes on and on.

 

[WhoDaresWhoCaresWhoKnows]

ngl I was a doomer around this time last year. However with every single unstoppable force thrown at the immovable object that is Null, I'm dooming less and less as the months go on.

i was never a full on doomer but i was concerned at some points. but that concern has pretty much gone away at this point.

For sure, I would not hold it against anyone for being concerned or having a negative outlook on things. I myself have been there as well, especially last year. Where I draw the line are the people who have already given up so thoroughly all they want to do is drag everyone else down to their level so they can justify not even trying to themselves.

 

[HRT Heisenberg]

Rename it "LizDongConsentAccidentFarms" lmao.

I'd love to see Null actually try this for a day like the Keffals April Fools thing. Change the name on the site banner and replace the background to be all Donger related (Donger themed April Fools art competition sounds funny). If anything the DDoS would probably ramp up like the time when someone found a lead to the consent accident victim in his thread the attacks mysteriously increased.

I don't think anyone except Donger will notice but it would be fucking funny to watch him get upset over it and watch him try and fail to take down the site again.

 

[SpergRush]

This is, of course, exactly what he's doing now. Just on his own VPS/servers. Which makes sense, how do you vet Internet Retards(tm) so they don't leak your private back end IP addresses? You'd really not want them to terminate TLS/SSL as they could then easily MITM, either with a KF or their own domain name. At least a pure TCP proxy compromise should give a cert error.

The two things that would probably be handy are: Smart DNS, with integrated monitoring and global load balancing, Automation like Salt/Ansible/Puppet/Terrorform/etc if he's not already using it for the proxy nodes.

So he's probably using some sort of CDN, but its all pretty transparant via DNS, right? If the CDN (or lower featured relay system) is set up so that its a bunch of mirrors with different domains and DNS records, you could hide where the core hosting is. And you make more targets and more work, more social capital for the bad trannies to take down.

The goal is to cost them social capital, effort, and money.

This would work for a few changes, but then the journos would say: "It has gone by many names, but the most prominent one was Kiwi Farms. This right-wing incel forum has caused..."
Also, user counts would dwindle rapidly as the name changes occur, and Josh likes having more than 3 terminally online autists reading and posting to his forum.

Just let people know the latest domain(s) on twitter and telegram. Users will get used to it.

Maybe the journos will eventually have the article be that. It still means next hosting Josh approaches as "Stinkditch.com" doesnt instantly see his history on a search and the troons have to expend social capital and effort yet again.

I'd love to see Null actually try this for a day like the Keffals April Fools thing. Change the name on the site banner and replace the background to be all Donger related (Donger themed April Fools art competition sounds funny). If anything the DDoS would probably ramp up like the time when someone found a lead to the consent accident victim in his thread the attacks mysteriously increased.

I don't think anyone except Donger will notice but it would be fucking funny to watch him get upset over it and watch him try and fail to take down the site again.

I think he should change the name to "LizDongsConsentAccidentFarms.com" for at least a couple months. Long enough for the journos and wikipedia to have to update their articles with that in it.

Maybe Liz Dong would even hesitate to make that round of phone calls and have to explain the new name to all the ISP people.

 

[Creative Username]

So he's probably using some sort of CDN, but its all pretty transparant via DNS, right? If the CDN (or lower featured relay system) is set up so that its a bunch of mirrors with different domains and DNS records, you could hide where the core hosting is. And you make more targets and more work, more social capital for the bad trannies to take down.

The goal is to cost them social capital, effort, and money.

Learn about what you're talking about before making suggestions.

Just let people know the latest domain(s) on twitter and telegram. Users will get used to it.

Josh is banned from twitter and the updates on telegram are locked behind an account registration. Also, new users will have a really hard time coming in, eventually killing the site from the userbase dying off.

Maybe the journos will eventually have the article be that. It still means next hosting Josh approaches as "Stinkditch.com" doesnt instantly see his history on a search and the troons have to expend social capital and effort yet again.

All trannies need to do is send a single email clarifying that extremelyinnocentsitethatdoesntdoanyfunnythings.website is the latest domain KF is operating under.

I think he should change the name to "LizDongsConsentAccidentFarms.com" for at least a couple months. Long enough for the journos and wikipedia to have to update their articles with that in it.

Maybe Liz Dong would even hesitate to make that round of phone calls and have to explain the new name to all the ISP people.

Journos wouldn't update if the site went under that name, since Kiwi Farms was once named CWCki Forums and the Wiki article just says the site was previously named after a "webcomic artist's" initials. Also, Elliot would not hesitate to saw his own arms off if it meant a single month of KF downtime.