Diseased Sanctioned Suicide - "Kill yourself" but unironically with sodium nitrite. Higher death count than the Farms. Targeted by parents, legislators, and journalists looking to alter Section 230.

The framing in this headline really irks me - they're implying that the forum had a hand in all 50 deaths, but would it not logically follow that a forum for the discussion of depression and suicide would simply statistically have a higher number of users who kill themselves than other sites? Y'know, correlation instead of causation?

It's the same issue that the media has when covering the Farms - their reasoning for saying that we "drove three people to suicide" is that we just had threads on the three people before they died (discounting Byuu, who's still alive), but would it not also logically follow that on a forum for discussing and mocking the actions of the mentally ill, that a couple of the people that we take notice of would be mentally ill enough to want to end their lives, regardless of the Farms keeping tabs on them or not?

This is why I still don't buy that SaSu is as much of a danger as the anti-SaSu people make it out to be, if it's even a danger at all. I've yet to see any of these personally/emotionally-invested people calling for the site's deplatforming consider the sequence of events their suicidal loved one would have likely taken had SaSu not existed, that sequence being they'd just find any info that they were after somewhere else (like on Wikipedia) or find people to talk about their suicidal thoughts with somewhere else (like Discord or Telegram). They just don't get how anything works.

Funny because the last time I checked, those ISP already had SS blocked, even from the time that I ran it.

There are suicide methods on Wikipedia and suicide related chatrooms on Discord and every other service you can think of, but they'll never ban those.
 
If someone is of sound mind and wants to end their life due to crippling pain/illness who is anyone to stop them and condemn them to more suffering?
How would that be moral at all?
I agree with you. It's not that it's always immoral, because sometimes it IS moral (especially for advanced neurodegenerative diseases.) It's just getting an organized group involved in suicide (whether government or private) can cause perverse incentives (and huge increases in completed suicides.)

And then there can be ulterior motives for encouraging it (government wanting to save money, sociopaths getting off on hurting people)

The lesson from Oregon, which has legalized doctor prescribed self administered suicide since 1997, is that about 2/3 of qualified terminally ill people who present for suicide do not go through with it once they are given (1) depression treatment & counseling (including atypical treatments like rTMS) and/or (2) adequate pain control.

This shows how important it is to screen suicidal people for depression and chronic pain (and treat them with more than just Prozac and Advil.)
I'll answer questions and shit tomorrow for the american farmers (10 pm min CEST)

Mods are NOT protecting her for being girl (most of the mods are not straight anyways),
What percentage of the mods are gay? Over 50% then correct?
I think FC has the right to be here. A lot of farmers think she trolls or getting off to to hurting others, but nobody has proved it and this site knows about being slandered for obvious reasons so why would we slander a user like how TantaShit did to us? As far as we know, she is a woman with severe tinnitus that hates it everyday that has a reason to stay. We assume good faith.
That's a ridiculous position to take for something so serious. How on earth would you "prove" that she got off from hurting others? Why not err on the side of caution?

Aren't her posts evidence enough ? Wouldn't it be sufficient that her claims are not serious (tinnitus? Are you kidding me)?

And I think it's self evident from her threads that this woman is a toxic sociopath (telling people who are hurting from the loss of their partner or a terminal diagnosis that "the only beauty lies in death"?) This is the problem with you Europeans. You can't call a spade a spade. Why not ban this toxic bitch?

You realize there are people who "get off" on hurting others right? They comprise about 1% of the population (Hare PCL-R). Why not make a plan to keep these sociopathic retards off the site? Zero tolerance for manipulators, sociopaths, narcissists, and histrionic personalities impeding on others' autonomy.

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And I think it's self evident from her threads that this woman is a toxic sociopath (telling people who are hurting from the loss of their partner or a terminal diagnosis that "the only beauty lies in death"?) This is the problem with you Europeans. You can't call a spade a spade. Why not ban this toxic bitch?

You realize there are people who "get off" on hurting others right? They comprise about 1% of the population (Hare PCL-R). Why not make a plan to keep these sociopathic retards off the site? Zero tolerance for manipulators, sociopaths, narcissists, and histrionic personalities impeding on others' autonomy.

About FC, I don't think her motives are exactly malicious, but it is strange they have accumulated an massive number of posts and spends an insubordinate amount of time on the site. I think it is a bridge too far to say that she's "getting off" on hurting others, when there's little proof of that.
 
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I think it is a bridge too far to say that she's "getting off" on hurting others, when there's little proof of that.
I wouldn't say it's a bridge too far necessarily, as while there's no direct proof of anything, it isn't really a massive leap in logic to think they could get some enjoyment out of spreading negativity, which is a very sus thing to do on a forum about suicide.

So again, no direct proof of anything (yet), but people aren't crazy or unreasonable to speculate.
 
suicide related chatrooms on Discord
That's the big thing I've been thinking about lately. There's so much seedy shit on Discord that people just don't know about because it isn't a website you can just go to, not just suicide talk but all the grooming, CP, zoosadism, etc. and none of these legacy outlets seem to talk about besides maybe an offhanded mention of "lowercase-i internet chatrooms" when I'm willing to bet money there is a million times more actual suicide encouragement across a couple random Discord servers than SS.

The fundamental issue here is we as a society need to figure out why young people want to kill themselves, and what the societal causes are so we can fix those and lower the suicide rates. But that's too hard so let's just ban a legal free speech website instead.
 
Free speech opponents have been sperging out and grasping at straws ever since the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in Gonzalez and Taamneh earlier this year. They were hoping that the federal judiciary would rewrite Section 230 from the bench and allow grifters to threaten tech companies with the weight of crushing litigation fees. Their ultimate goal? To eradicate the laissez-faire principles that have governed the web since its very founding. It's no surprise that one of SS' most spoken opponents named her nonprofit "Fix the 26," to push for the repeal of S230.

Websites like the Kiwi Farms and SS are frequently invoked by free speech opponents as examples of the "dangers" of "unfettered" speech. But taking down "back alley sites" is simply a smokescreen for their true aims. What they want is a dystopian version of the internet where only large, established players are allowed a voice; where every single thought or opinion is watered-down, neutered, and bubble-wrapped so even the most delicate of individuals will not feel offense.

Many opponents of SS specifically (and the Farms) pinned their hopes on Gonzalez and Taamneh, hoping that an anti-speech U.S. Supreme Court decision would give them the legal tools to start fighting "bad" websites within the United States. Instead, in a 9-0 decision and a separate per curiam decision, the Court decided to leave S230 intact. Knowing that they have no paths to victory through the courts, I'm not surprised that SS' opponents have stepped up their harassment of @afounder. But do they really think this will change anything? Even if SS were to disappear tomorrow, I can guarantee you that the mental health crisis and the suicide rate would not change in any meaningful way. We don't have campaigns seeking to ban trains when people throw themselves in front of them. It's clear that for some, the fight against SS is either about the aforementioned deep-seated hostility to free speech, or a personal need to cope with the fact that they were an awful parent.

Regarding the UK, I don't give a shit what Ofcom does, but I will say this. The UK's Online Safety Bill (and the EU Digital Services Act) betrays the corrupt European mentality that private enterprise exists to serve the bureaucratic class and nothing more. Small companies are often crushed by the regulatory boot before they can grow out of their infancy. It's no surprise that despite having many excellent universities, and a population count comparable to that of the United States, there is not a single European tech company that rivals the size of the largest American tech giants. Oh well.
 
This is why I still don't buy that SaSu is as much of a danger as the anti-SaSu people make it out to be, if it's even a danger at all.
I've seen the kind of obsessive piece of shit who attack forums like this. Even ash had one named Doug Wiser who later got caught trying to groom suicidal underage girls and drive people to suicide.
There are suicide methods on Wikipedia and suicide related chatrooms on Discord and every other service you can think of, but they'll never ban those.
Discord is packed with pedophiles, groomers, and trannies (but I repeat myself), as well as "troll" gangs that blackmail underage kids into doing CP and self-harm for their amusement. Discord couldn't care less and nobody is calling for Discord to be shut down.
Many opponents of SS specifically (and the Farms) pinned their hopes on Gonzalez and Taamneh, hoping that an anti-speech U.S. Supreme Court decision would give them the legal tools to start fighting "bad" websites within the United States. Instead, in a 9-0 decision and a separate per curiam decision, the Court decided to leave S230 intact.
Expecting an overtly conservative Supreme Court to openly legislate from the bench was insane, especially when even the liberals (by judiciary standards anyway) are on the same side of the First Amendment issues in question.
 
I wouldn't say it's a bridge too far necessarily, as while there's no direct proof of anything, it isn't really a massive leap in logic to think they could get some enjoyment out of spreading negativity, which is a very sus thing to do on a forum about suicide.

So again, no direct proof of anything (yet), but people aren't crazy or unreasonable to speculate.
Especially when she loves moaning at people who want to spread a little joy, reminds me of Ashley Lich Queen who loves to try and sabotage any other ana's recovery efforts with her doom speak.
Maybe the users of the SS forum who came here don't see it cause they have been on the site for a long time and are used to her shit but to me it's like she is reciting a mantra everyday on how "pointless" life is and how death is the answer.
But yet, she lives to ramble on about how pointless life is and how death is the only answer.
It's one thing to vent and reach out for comfort on the site if you are struggling with depression or making peace with your decision and want some kind and understanding people speak with you, but it's another when you spam fuck these inane posts about how death is so awesome and shit and life is so painful and pointless 20+ times per day.. to me my bullshit detector is screaming when it comes to FC.
 
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Expecting an overtly conservative Supreme Court to openly legislate from the bench was insane, especially when even the liberals (by judiciary standards anyway) are on the same side of the First Amendment issues in question.

It was so absolutely funny how the U.S. Supreme Court side-stepped the S230 question altogether. I have to admit that I was surprised when they decided the cases in mid-May, unlike late June when most of the high-profile decisions are released. But it was a pleasant surprise.

I'm not exaggerating when I say that the Roberts Court is the most freedom-of-edgy-speech iteration of the Court in American history. If there's any paragraph that succinctly summarizes the current Court's approach to the First Amendment, it's in United States v. Stevens, 559 U.S. 460, a decision where the Court struck down a federal law that outlawed depictions of animal cruelty.

Stevens at 470, per Roberts CJ:
The First Amendment’s guarantee of free speech does not extend only to categories of speech that survive an ad hoc balancing of relative social costs and benefits. The First Amendment itself reflects a judgment by the American people that the benefits of its restrictions on the Government outweigh the costs. Our Constitution forecloses any attempt to revise that judgment simply on the basis that some speech is not worth it. The Constitution is not a document “prescribing limits, and declaring that those limits may be passed at pleasure.” Marbury v. Madison, 1 Cranch 137, 178 (1803).

It gives me a good chuckle when I see randoms argue that certain categories of speech—like pro-suicide speech, or incel speech, or "hate speech" more generally—aren't protected by the First Amendment because they fail some sort of a moral balancing test. Well, the entire point of the Roberts Court's jurisprudence is that they give zero fucks about a moral balancing test! That's why the Court ruled the way that it did in Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Ass'n (violent video games); Snyder v. Phelps ("God Hates Fags" signs); Packingham v. North Carolina (social media use by sex offenders); Matal v. Tam ("racially disparaging" trademarks), etc.

The very premise of originalism in constitutional interpretation—and textualism in statutory interpretation—is that judges shouldn't be junior varsity legislators, inserting their own policy preferences into the law.

But this didn't stop Section 230's opponents from droning on and on, in their amicus briefs, about how evil Big Tech was and how badly Section 230 needed to be reined in. Four retired IDF generals somehow thought that "interrupting" the "exposure of users to inflammatory content and hate speech" would be a compelling argument to make in a U.S. court. Ditto for the National Police Association, whose lawyers wrote that S230 needed to be reinterpreted to "help damp anti-LEO attitudes and attacks". On the other side of the political spectrum, a crackpot law professor argued that S230 should only immunize platforms that are engaged in "Good Samaritan" conduct, such as "push[ing] down pro-eating disorders or pro-suicide results".

Did they really think that the Roberts Court would somehow be receptive to policy arguments that don't even pretend to be based on the very text of the statute?

Anyway, I don't want to get too far off-topic. Point is, I've engaged with many opponents of both SS and the incel forums over the last two years, and from what I tell, they really wanted Section 230 gone or amended. In their minds, this would've allowed them to go after the administrators and moderators of "back alley sites". When the Court failed to deliver, well, too bad for them. I think this partly contributed to the anti-SS sperging you see now.
 
Before I answer some of the things, i want to get off two new updates.

-Rain has DM'd me and said that they do not care if i post on KF or not.

-I got my first official hate mail for being a mod of SS. Catherine seemed to have seen my posts on KF about Lamarcus, because she tagged me in a video about Lamarcus being confronted, made fun of him for being «disgusting» (ok, how is it my problem if he does not have a balanced diet? i have also seen worse, Lamarcus looks anorexic compared with what i have seen) and saying that we «worship» him even tho he is fat (no we do not LUL and again, who tf cares that he is fat). I got called a sack of shit by someone in the comments who is friends with Catherine.

Thank you Catherine for the free view shitter acc. I think they would love the album cover meme of KL on my page. I have told the users in the chat about this and they are memeing on this. The Church of afounder.

Also, thanks for leading your followers to my literal pin thread on why the TantaShit video is false which includes text from KF and the OP. Good luck trying to slander me without leading your followers to the truth. I have already told people why the video is false so i will not repeat again.

If true, then this is good - FC was one of my main gripes with your forum (based off of the complaints from SaSu users that joined here to talk about them), so if it's being dealt with adequately then good job. I hope you aren't lying.

I think post views are visible to guests. Check the views of FC and compare to other post. I can tell you very few specific users react to the posts and few reply.

Aren't her posts evidence enough ? Wouldn't it be sufficient that her claims are not serious (tinnitus? Are you kidding me)?
I understand your concern. People do get suicidal thoughts from tinnitus if severe. There is also no cure. Farmers before you have point this out.

Her posts are not evidence enough. We can not tell if she is actually that mad about earth or not.

I am aware that psychopaths do exist. We do not have evidence that FC is a psychopath. Being so insistent on life being bad is not a crime. Most users get into debates about if she should be allowed to «spam» rather than if her opinions are correct. I think this tells you all you must know on whether or not people agree with her. If she is this master manipulator like you say she is doing a bad job.

I am aware you will probably not change your mind because you believe FC to be so sad and depressed that it looks fake. I wish depression had a limit, but anyone who has had it (and i know many farmers do) know that there is no limit as to how messy a room can get, how chronically online you can be for the newer depressed gen.

We can think, but once we find evidence, we MUST be sure it is correct. Nobody has even given us evidence of being malicious instead of simply making comments about how she hates life. Depressed people can be confused as how we not see how life is bad. This is not proof.

I also can not believe i have to say this again, but I do not speak for the global mods. I only have access to some secret info and control of the users allowed to chat or not. You are talking to me as if i can control. All of the above is my opinion.


Now excuse me, i gotta take a shit.
 
Also, thanks for leading your followers to my literal pin thread on why the TantaShit video is false which includes text from KF and the OP. Good luck trying to slander me without leading your followers to the truth. I have already told people why the video is false so i will not repeat again.
Here's an archive of your thread. (link) Thanks for crediting me fren (I really need to get to updating the OP with the rest of the found posts...)
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Honestly with all the "recreation" graphics and context removal I'm surprised Tantacrul didn't make up fake posts out of thin air. Especially since he did exactly that for post reactions.

Edit: might as well archive Catherine's a-logging too.
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source (a)
 
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I got called a sack of shit by someone in the comments who is friends with Catherine.
for someone who's on the side that champions life, that guy sure makes a lot of interesting comments
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L / A (in reply to comments about Lamarcus)

going more into his background, it's clear he a-logs SS members, he's allegedly an ex-convict according to one member, though I've yet to verify this so take it with a grain of salt


The reason for all this? his 41-year-old brother was groomed by big bad suicide website to kill himself :(

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L / A
 
I got my first official hate mail for being a mod of SS. Catherine seemed to have seen my posts on KF about Lamarcus, because she tagged me in a video about Lamarcus being confronted, made fun of him for being «disgusting» (ok, how is it my problem if he does not have a balanced diet? i have also seen worse, Lamarcus looks anorexic compared with what i have seen) and saying that we «worship» him even tho he is fat (no we do not LUL and again, who tf cares that he is fat). I got called a sack of shit by someone in the comments who is friends with Catherine.
Pot and kettle. Catherine, have you ever looked at yourself in the mirror? Do lay off the chip butties, you stupid cow.

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for someone who's on the side that champions life, that guy sure makes a lot of interesting comments
Alabama allows permitless concealed carry. It's not England.
 
for someone who's on the side that champions life, that guy sure makes a lot of interesting comments
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L / A (in reply to comments about Lamarcus)

going more into his background, it's clear he a-logs SS members, he's allegedly an ex-convict according to one member, though I've yet to verify this so take it with a grain of salt


The reason for all this? his 41-year-old brother was groomed by big bad suicide website to kill himself :(


L / A

Hey BBC or any other lowlife journalists reading this,

Instead of covering for felons like Lee that are making blatant threats towards me, how about you do something to help mental health crisis instead of approaching me at my place of residence or the bank?

How about you actually do something other than point fingers here.

I would be up to doing an interview, but not to any of these loser journos that believe that I'm devil incarnate or believes that it's okay to stalk my place of residence or bank.
 
I would be up to doing an interview, but not to any of these loser journos that believe that I'm devil incarnate or believes that it's okay to stalk my place of residence or bank.
Big mistake. Nothing good can ever come to you from engaging with the media. They hate the site and are actively smearing you, you're not going to convince them otherwise. Any persuasive arguments you may have (and, please don't be offended, I doubt you'll come up with any) will just be edited out. They're pursuing this story for a reason, and "Oh, actually this afounder guy is well-spoken and presents a nuanced argument for why suicide assistance sites should exist" won't fit into that narrative.
 
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