Western Animation - Discuss American, Canadian, and European cartoons here (or just bitch about wokeshit, I guess)

[Kari Kamiya]

I will never understand why it’s adults.

I mean, I’m an adult and I love animation but I don’t buy toys, backpacks or funkopops. I don’t shill or praise for shows like The Owl House.

It’s just weird.

You can thank the Animation Age Ghetto for why modern cartoonists and writers have this mindset that "ANIMATION IS NOT JUST FOR KIDS" only to make cartoons that aren't for kids yet are marketed as such.

And then they cry and seethe that they keep getting labeled as groomers. Really makes you think.

Mobile-posting edit:

Twitter and Reddit love to shill and praise all the Cal arts style shows like The Owl House. But notice how children are not that into them?

Halloween was a few days ago and, after all these years I’ve yet to see a single kid dressed as a Steven Universe Character. Not even a single kid buying their merchandise. No backpacks, no toys. Nothing. It’s just adults praising it for “representation.”

Teen Titans Go! admittedly isn’t my cup of tea, but the undeniable fact is that kids, real kids, love that show.

Funny anecdote, the hubby and I dressed up and walked around the neighborhood on Halloween. I wasn't dressed as much, just had on my Team Rocket red R shirt and a matching skirt and boots with mesh gloves, and that was it. Yet some little girl dressed as a princess or ballerina got so excited seeing my "costume" that she hugged me shrieking "I luv your coshtume!"

Kids' properties that are even pushing 30 will forever gain a young audience because it's a property that always knew what it was. Modern cartoon IPs wish they could have that kind of popularity and recognition.

 

[A Grey Cat]

I’ve watch The Loud House and I don’t think it had too much promise.

to each his own. The original Halloween special where Lincoln wouldn't stop freaking out over a horror movie called the harvester did give this line i never get tired of rebutting though.

Lincon: I never knew a man in overalls could be so scary.

Me: spoken like somebody who never saw Friday the 13th part 2...or the town that dreaded sundown eh kiddo?

Personally, I wasn’t even interested in the first few episodes. While I like fantasy I don’t find witches or wizards fun anymore.

you know it's funny daily wire made that show everyone's calling a bluey ripoff* I almost wanna see how'd they rip off witches and wizardry crap like owl house or HGS. The lgbt shit would be the first to go, so that'd be a plus.

You can thank the Animation Age Ghetto for why modern cartoonists and writers have this mindset that "ANIMATION IS NOT JUST FOR KIDS" only to make cartoons that aren't for kids yet are marketed as such.

And then they cry and seethe that they keep getting labeled as groomers. Really makes you think.

Mobile-posting edit:

Funny anecdote, the hubby and I dressed up and walked around the neighborhood on Halloween. I wasn't dressed as much, just had on my Team Rocket red R shirt and a matching skirt and boots with mesh gloves, and that was it. Yet some little girl dressed as a princess or ballerina got so excited seeing my "costume" that she hugged me shrieking "I luv your coshtume!"

Kids' properties that are even pushing 30 will forever gain a young audience because it's a property that always knew what it was. Modern cartoon IPs wish they could have that kind of popularity and recognition.

posts like that could show the world we may be kiwis but we're still human. Too bad the msm who hate our guts will only quote our posts that deadname troons, drop the N bomb, and repost tranny porn.



*(even though bluey is one of the few if not only works of western animation the people at daily wire would actually be in favor of since it does celebrate the importance of family, parenthood, and isn't dumbed down for the smooth brained)

 

[TVB]

You can thank the Animation Age Ghetto for why modern cartoonists and writers have this mindset that "ANIMATION IS NOT JUST FOR KIDS" only to make cartoons that aren't for kids yet are marketed as such.

And then they cry and seethe that they keep getting labeled as groomers. Really makes you think.

Mobile-posting edit:

Funny anecdote, the hubby and I dressed up and walked around the neighborhood on Halloween. I wasn't dressed as much, just had on my Team Rocket red R shirt and a matching skirt and boots with mesh gloves, and that was it. Yet some little girl dressed as a princess or ballerina got so excited seeing my "costume" that she hugged me shrieking "I luv your coshtume!"

Kids' properties that are even pushing 30 will forever gain a young audience because it's a property that always knew what it was. Modern cartoon IPs wish they could have that kind of popularity and recognition.

If these fuckers want to take the idea of animation being "for adults" seriously, then they need to look at Waltz with Bashir, Anomalisa or Pink Floyd: The Wall instead of watching tried and trued kids movies or shows.

 

[Grumpy Pickle Rick]

You can thank the Animation Age Ghetto for why modern cartoonists and writers have this mindset that "ANIMATION IS NOT JUST FOR KIDS" only to make cartoons that aren't for kids yet are marketed as such.

And then they cry and seethe that they keep getting labeled as groomers. Really makes you think.

You know, these people want to prove that animation is not just for kids but they all write and watch is kids shows like Gravity Falls.

Batman: TAS might have been a show for kids but it knew how to tackled darker and mature themes like death, corruption and redemption in creative ways.

These people in modern animation just don’t know how to be mature or want to tackle mature themes.

 

[TVB]

You know, these people want to prove that animation is not just for kids but they all write and watch is kids shows like Gravity Falls.

Batman: TAS might have been a show for kids but it knew how to tackled darker and mature themes like death, corruption and redemption.

These people in modern animation just don’t know how to be mature or want to tackle mature themes.

What about Hey Arnold, X-Men TAS, Batman Beyond, Avatar TLA or Gargoyles? Those animated shows made for children surprisingly tackled a lot of mature themes

 

[Grumpy Pickle Rick]

What about Hey Arnold, X-Men TAS, Batman Beyond, Avatar TLA or Gargoyles? Those animated shows made for children surprisingly tackled a lot of mature themes

Oh, I know. I was just using the Batman cartoon as an example.

But the point is, if these modern writers want to show that animation can be for adults too, then they need to tackle more adult themes.

They need show things like self-sacrifice or how our actions can have severe consequences even if you are the hero of the story.

Stuff like that.

 

[SecretMagicalGirl]

but is that really still a thing? I'm sure outside a few caballs of internet goblins rotting away in their pods does anyone really give a shit about hating on TTG anymore? Even animation spergs like mrenter have more less moved on from hating TTG.

Admittedly it has died down a lot. But you occasionally see them on YouTube comment sections.

Tough that was just a small example to make a point. What’s truly worrysome is seeing adults complaining that cartoons made for children are not catering to them That’s something I see far more often, and sadly, is still a thing.

You can see this Trend is so big, Adventure Time started doing spin offs for adults. And besides some use of blood here, and there, and the use of more swear words, there’s literally no reason whatsoever they couldn’t have been made for kids.

They also tried with something called “Bravest Warriors.” Originally it was pitched as a show for kids and it shows, But, again, save for the occasional use of swear words it was identical to something you would see on Cartoon Network. It was basically Adventure Time in space.

Point is, for all the “adult” pretense, they aren’t more mature. Even when they drop the facade and make them specifically for adults.

 

[TVB]

Oh, I know. I was just using the Batman cartoon as an example.

But the point is, if these modern writers want to show that animation can be for adults too, then they need to tackle more adult themes.

They need show things like self-sacrifice or how our actions can have severe consequences even if you are the hero of the story.

Stuff like that.

Oh I know. Although I do think Spawn Animated is better, but Batman TAS is still a well-made series. But yes, I agree. In order for animation to be taken seriously, they need to touch on taboo themes and not on-the-nose lefty political subjects, and I mean actual subjects that adults can relate to as well.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Oh, I know. I was just using the Batman cartoon as an example.

But the point is, if these modern writers want to show that animation can be for adults too, then they need to tackle more adult themes.

They need show things like self-sacrifice or how our actions can have severe consequences even if you are the hero of the story.

Stuff like that.

While I loved those shows, they have become a common reason for manchildren to watch children entertainment. It doesn't help that modern adults are more infantile than actual 10 year olds since they can't stomach shit like police, violence and suicide.

 

[LucasSomething]

Modern cartoons do attempt to tackle mature themes, but they're so progressive/sanitized/shallow that real mature adults would rather have nothing.

You know how cartoons tackle depression nowadays? "Protagonist is depressed but doesnt want to talk about it so they bottle it up cause they're just sooooo nice but then their lover/friend hugs them and they cry and it's all good." This happens very often in steven universe, sometimes in owl house and is the entire of SU future.

But oh there is also the opposite extreme for, like Beastboy in young justice who spends multiple episodes sulking and crying in bed, which regardless of realism, is not interesting to watch or saying anything. And while i know this is a sensitive topic regardless, it would be nice to see a character who is honest enough to admit they're depressed but still mature enough to do know their responsibilities. THIS is the hard part.

Wanna portray abuse? It's always extremely shallow mean daddy issues, "some guy who was born evil and dies" or bullies who become love interests later. The fact women ALWAYS get redeemed while men get stomped to death (owl house) makes it hard to take seriously. You can't even

Minority struggle? Buddy we have so much gayshit nowadays you'd think it's the heteros who are the minority. Some cartoons don't even have white people (glitch techs) or have non binary muslims (young justice) and when you come out everyone at the bus claps.

Meanwhile static shock had the balls to have a bullying victim attempt a school shooting, vergil pressured into gang wars and richie calling his father racist out loud. Prince of bel air had Carl get tricked into using drugs and be exploited by someone who kept calling him a "fake nigga". You don't see anything like that in cartoon nowadays, at least not with actual tact.

 

[A Grey Cat]

bullying victim attempt a school shooting

It was so jarring to hear Richard horowitz go from mostly harmless idiots like billy from billy and mandy and skipper Matthew's (goosebumps attack of the mutant audio book probably one of his best roles and best of the gb audiobooks.) To a full blown little psycho who was ready to end some people back then. This was when his most "evil" role was at most Zim but even then Zims evil yeah but also an idiot.

It doesn't help that modern adults are more infantile than actual 10 year olds since they can't stomach shit like violence

I swear by my eye teeth (again) the reason all the swords in that god awful Thundercats roar were rounded off nay why the calarts style is so popular is cause it allows the designs to be soft and rounded off with no sharp edges to them. That's how infantile modern man has become. I mean say what you want about vivzies style (and we have) at least she draws and designs her characters to have sharp teeth and edges and isn't afraid to show blood and violence...I mean when her work isn't equally as infantile.

 

[starborn427614]

I will never understand why it’s adults.

I mean, I’m an adult and I love animation but I don’t buy toys, backpacks or funkopops. I don’t shill or praise for shows like The Owl House.

It’s just weird.

From my experience, some just enjoy those shows because they're easier to consume than media in their own age bracket (both in terms of online availability and regular preference for genres, storytelling etc).

The more...intense ones are just as off-putting to the normie fans as they are to us here. You're not alone in your assessments for the most part.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

And speaking of, (and yes I'm crossposting this from the Tomb Raider thread) from the same studio behind Castlevania, they're bringing you this, also for Netflix

Fuck this gay earth

LOL at a glance that looked like Korra to me. Is it a similar problem?

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Modern cartoons do attempt to tackle mature themes, but they're so progressive/sanitized/shallow that real mature adults would rather have nothing.

You know how cartoons tackle depression nowadays? "Protagonist is depressed but doesnt want to talk about it so they bottle it up cause they're just sooooo nice but then their lover/friend hugs them and they cry and it's all good." This happens very often in steven universe, sometimes in owl house and is the entire of SU future.

But oh there is also the opposite extreme for, like Beastboy in young justice who spends multiple episodes sulking and crying in bed, which regardless of realism, is not interesting to watch or saying anything. And while i know this is a sensitive topic regardless, it would be nice to see a character who is honest enough to admit they're depressed but still mature enough to do know their responsibilities. THIS is the hard part.

Wanna portray abuse? It's always extremely shallow mean daddy issues, "some guy who was born evil and dies" or bullies who become love interests later. The fact women ALWAYS get redeemed while men get stomped to death (owl house) makes it hard to take seriously. You can't even

Minority struggle? Buddy we have so much gayshit nowadays you'd think it's the heteros who are the minority. Some cartoons don't even have white people (glitch techs) or have non binary muslims (young justice) and when you come out everyone at the bus claps.

Meanwhile static shock had the balls to have a bullying victim attempt a school shooting, vergil pressured into gang wars and richie calling his father racist out loud. Prince of bel air had Carl get tricked into using drugs and be exploited by someone who kept calling him a "fake nigga". You don't see anything like that in cartoon nowadays, at least not with actual tact.

The problem with the issues outlined is that maybe 1 in a 100 children watching will actually fall under those categories, and even fewer will actually realize they are within ones. The manchildren watching get off to imagining they are the victims of such abuse, when statistically, they are at the upper echelons of society.

This is why those topics always fail, because they are just victim fantasies, and I doubt I can even call them "mature" when they are just a tag to feel empowered for supposedly having.

Mature themes mean are things like taking hard choices, getting disillusioned with your childhood expectations and coming to term with having no right answers. Having depression or a shit childhood is not mature, especially for the former that's basically an imagined issue.

Edit: Rephrasing it, shitty modern writers mistake the symptoms for the cause. Abuse/depression are caused by issues related to adulthood and aren't by themselves adult.

 

[TVB]

Richard horowitz

Horvitz, not Horowitz. Richard Steven Horvitz

harmless idiots like billy from billy and mandy and skipper Matthew's (goosebumps attack of the mutant audio book probably one of his best roles and best of the gb audiobooks.)

And you forgot to include my nigga, Daggett Beaver.

Rich even voiced him.

 

[starborn427614]

Horvitz, not Horowitz. Richard Steven Horvitz

And you forgot to include my nigga, Daggett Beaver.
View attachment 5466285
Rich even voiced him.

It's cool to hear Norb's VA again in that Nick fighter after so long. Rich hasn't lost his touch either.

 

[Kabobs]

Horvitz, not Horowitz. Richard Steven Horvitz

And you forgot to include my nigga, Daggett Beaver.
View attachment 5466285
Rich even voiced him.

Don't forget Horvitz voiced the title character of Invader Zim. I'm surprised no one has mentioned that show in a while.

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

It's like modern people are too desperate to be influenced by either Genndy Tartakovsky, Craig McCracken, Bruce Timm, etc., but whereas these three are more creative and passionate, modern industry writers aren't.

Modern writers don't even look to or care for these creators. The western inspiration for modern cartoons isn't the DCAU or Samurai Jack, it is a combination of Invader Zim, Avatar and Adventure Time. Past those it is always anime (Pokemon, Sailor Moon, DBZ, Naruto) or Harry Potter, maybe Sonic.

I swear by my eye teeth (again) the reason all the swords in that god awful Thundercats roar were rounded off nay why the calarts style is so popular is cause it allows the designs to be soft and rounded off with no sharp edges to them. That's how infantile modern man has become. I mean say what you want about vivzies style (and we have) at least she draws and designs her characters to have sharp teeth and edges and isn't afraid to show blood and violence...I mean when her work isn't equally as infantile.

From what I have heard, this is wrong. The designs are done that way due to the corporatism of modern animation. Budgets and time are more strict, and edge designs take more time to animate, whereas a blob is more fluid and you can mess it up a bit more. Not defending too much, but blame can be shifted to the assembly line mentality animation has been put through rather than creators.

I will never understand why it’s adults.

I mean, I’m an adult and I love animation but I don’t buy toys, backpacks or funkopops. I don’t shill or praise for shows like The Owl House.

It’s just weird.

All of media is falling into this trap. The simple fact is that newer generations are having less kids and the attentions of said kids are going to mean competition with YouTube. Kids are not worth the investment of corporate. They are diminishing returns that Hollywood has little control over unlike Gen X or Millennials. The man-child is more likely to get toys these days than the IPAD kid. Walking down toy/nerd sections in Target leaves me with a sense of dread as it is a lot of 80s garbage or specialty items for collectors, LEGO shelves half filled with adult/statue builds.

It is a self-creating problem. Companies stop caring about kids to chase adults, kids don't care, company sees no interest from children and keeps advertising to adults.

 

[starborn427614]

Honestly, the fact a show gets any audience nowadays is a crapshoot at best. I don't begrudge a target demographic shifting if the original simply isn't there (or is there but in more limited amounts than the company hoped for).

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

Honestly, the fact a show gets any audience nowadays is a crapshoot at best. I don't begrudge a target demographic shifting if the original simply isn't there (or is there but in more limited amounts than the company hoped for).

The issue is that what they are aiming for is not sustainable and that they could easily gain an audience, they just lack effort.

Nickelodeon is the best example to explain my point. Nick had everything going for them but got super complacent and downright vile in their business. The need to keep SpongeBob on top prevented them from having any new talent pad out the lineup. They cannot even claim the talent was not there. They had good series like Catscratch, El Tigre and Making Fiends yet deliberately sabotaged them. Now the channel has gone on 7 years since its last hit original IP The Loud House, and before that it was roughly 11 years without anything since Avatar. It was their choice to handicap themselves, and now they have to rely on nostalgia for 90s and early 00s IPs to keep them floating. Look at any modern Nick game, and the newest members are from 2016, it is beyond pathetic for a channel that was and still is the most popular kids network.

Cartoon Network is not much better. With the Warner merger, the channel sat dormant for about half a decade while worthwhile shows like Justice League Action got shafted. They let Adult Swim consume an ever increasing amount of the channel and let TTG be the only thing on for 10 years. CN did nothing to grow an audience unlike the success they had from 2010-2015. Even with the internet, they were still coasting high, but threw it all away for what I presume to be streaming?