Community Tard Baby General (includes brain dead kids) - Fundies and their genetic Fuckups; Parents of corpses in denial

[Android raptor]

I assume the reason why they wouldn't let her die at home was because she was too unstable and probably wouldn't have survived the trip, and it would've possibly caused her unnecessary pain and discomfort.

 

[TismFarmer]

They must have known the parents, or more likely Christian Legal Centre, were going to try some kind of fuckery or noisy protest (outside a children's hospice!) so they had security there and removed life support as soon as they were legally able to at midnight.

 

[Berserker Armor]

I assume the reason why they wouldn't let her die at home was because she was too unstable and probably wouldn't have survived the trip, and it would've possibly caused her unnecessary pain and discomfort.

that is unfortunately the reason for sure. They rarely let adults die at home also due to the same factors. If people think it’s just them doing it to children to torture them or something than they don’t know shit about hospice works.
I feel so horrible for Indi’s parents. Poor thing was lucky to be alive as long as she was in the first place. I hope they do genetic testing the next time they have a kid. I feel for people who have lost children but the people who have been manipulated by “organizations”like CC. It’s heartbreaking. No parent wants to lose a child, miscarriage, still born, genetic fuck ups or terminal illness. Yet, a child’s suffering can not last forever. A lot of the potatoes here are the examples. Most do not have long lives or much of one…

Though, the hooligans were some weird fluke in the universe.

 

[User names must be unique]

I feel so horrible for Indi’s parents. Poor thing was lucky to be alive as long as she was in the first place.

They knew about Indi's condition before she was born, honestly fuck them.

 

[Quack_Quack]

I'm glad she was able to pass in hospice, but I'd be pretty broken if my terminal child couldn't die at home with our family. I would probably opt for that, and d/cing the vent in the relative privacy and calm of our home. Alarms and certain things about the vent being disconnected can be tremendously upsetting for parents. I hope they were open to education from hospice and they were able to have peace at the end.

https://www.mercyships.org/

I presume if they had opted for palliative care earlier she may have been able to have been at home and died there.

However, sadly, the parents and CC pushed and pushed past the point she was medically stable enough to be moved without her dying. Which is exactly what happened

@Beserker Armour they knew before she was born. In the UK, if you're high risk you get moved to a high risk team who do more detailed and extensive testing. They could have aborted after finding out but didn't.

 

[Android raptor]

They knew about Indi's condition before she was born, honestly fuck them.

Did they? I'd not heard about that, I'd assumed she was seemingly normal at birth until she started having seizures.

I presume if they had opted for palliative care earlier she may have been able to have been at home and died there.

However, sadly, the parents and CC pushed and pushed past the point she was medically stable enough to be moved without her dying. Which is exactly what happened

Given that Indi's specifically mutation is apparently extremely rare and always fatal in infancy or very early childhood, I would assume normally in those types of cases palliative care and hospice would start after a fatal diagnosis. Unfortunately the parents refused to accept the situation and CC got involved and made it even worse.

Didn't Alfie Evans also have a fatal mitochondria disease? I think that was the one whose brain was described as liquefied.

 

[Quack_Quack]

Did they? I'd not heard about that, I'd assumed she was seemingly normal at birth until she started having seizures.

Given that Indi's specifically mutation is apparently extremely rare and always fatal in infancy or very early childhood, I would assume normally in those types of cases palliative care and hospice would start after a fatal diagnosis. Unfortunately the parents refused to accept the situation and CC got involved and made it even worse.

Didn't Alfie Evans also have a fatal mitochondria disease? I think that was the one whose brain was described as liquefied.

Alfie had a GABA-transaminase deficiency. Charlie Gard was the mitochondrial disorder.

They'd seen the difference in her heart on the ultrasound, there's no way they didn't see brain abnormalities. IIRC there was something in the court notes about it. Also, if it's genetic, it would probably be detectable on a sequencing via amniocentesis

 

[User names must be unique]

Did they? I'd not heard about that, I'd assumed she was seemingly normal at birth until she started having seizures.

Yep, doesn't say when they learned it her heart condition might have shown up as early as the 11-14 week ultrasound, The brain abnormalities would have been clearly visible on the 18-21 scan, testing and diagnosis may have taken some time though.

“We were pressed to have an abortion by medical professionals many times in the lead up to Indi’s birth, and the pressure to arrange for her to die and after her birth has been a continuation of this.

Source: https://christianconcern.com/news/parents-to-fight-in-court-for-seven-month-old-babys-life/
Archive: https://archive.is/yE9f3

I suspect they've been told to stop talking about it because who ever is helping them with their PR knows it'll make them unsympathetic,
Even among pro-lifers many support abortion for severe fetal abnormality.

 

[Quack_Quack]

Yep, doesn't say when they learned it her heart condition might have shown up as early as the 11-14 week ultrasound, The brain abnormalities would have been clearly visible on the 18-21 scan, testing and diagnosis may have taken some time though.


Source: https://christianconcern.com/news/parents-to-fight-in-court-for-seven-month-old-babys-life/
Archive: https://archive.is/yE9f3

I suspect they've been told to stop talking about it because who ever is helping them with their PR knows it'll make them unsympathetic,
Even among pro-lifers many support abortion for severe fetal abnormality.

They'd probably have seen both on the 11-14 week scan. I've had a TFMR (anencephaly) and it was diagnosed then. So, yeah, it's highly likely she knew for six fucking months her kid would die within their first few years of life.

 

[Thomas Eugene Paris]

I remember someone posting in a thread about a blog they used to read by parents who daughter ultimately passed from cancer. Towards the end they wrote about praying today would be the day God took their daughter and she no longer had to suffer, and feeling guilty for it.

That was me, and I think about it often.

I would probably opt for that, and d/cing the vent in the relative privacy and calm of our home. Alarms and certain things about the vent being disconnected can be tremendously upsetting for parents. I hope they were open to education from hospice and they were able to have peace at the end.

Honestly, in this situation, I don't think that there was any course of action to which the parents would have willingly acquiesced. Once their relationship with the hospital became adversarial, there was nothing that anyone could have done to fix it. Her parents were never going to accept the inevitable outcome, and that colored their interactions with the healthcare team from the outset. I don't even necessarily blame them; losing a child is unimaginable, and I think it bears mentioning that they probably really did believe that their daughter could be helped if they just made it to Italy. They really, truly are not able to comprehend that further treatment would amount to futile torture, and in their minds, Indi had a chance at survival until it was snatched from their grasp by an uncaring bureaucracy.

If they'd been allowed to go to Italy, she almost certainly would have died en route, which would have been incredibly traumatic for everyone involved. In the incredibly unlikely event that she had survived the trip, her condition was terminal and there's absolutely nothing that could have been done for her in Italy that hadn't already been attempted in the UK. Her parents would have attributed her death to the delay in leaving England.

If she'd been discharged to die at home, her parents would have been dissatisfied with some aspect of the procedure for discontinuing the vent. They didn't accept that she was terminal, and even with an exhaustive effort on the part of physicians, hospice staff, child life specialists, and clergy to prepare them for terminal extubation, they wouldn't have been ready to let her die at home any more than they were ready for her to die in hospital.

In some cases like this, I think the behavior of the parents is just part of the grieving process. I don't think the problem was really whether Indi died in Italy or in England; the actual issue is that her parents were unable or unwilling to acknowledge the facts about her condition. As (fairly) impartial bystanders, I think it's tantalizingly easy for us to dismiss them as stupid or malicious, and while either or both of those things may be true, they were dealing with an impossible situation that I would not wish on my worst enemy. Sometimes, the human brain understands things that the human heart does not.

 

[Berserker Armor]

@Beserker Armour they knew before she was born. In the UK, if you're high risk you get moved to a high risk team who do more detailed and extensive testing. They could have aborted after finding out but didn't.

My brain forgot that part somehow. It’s interesting to me how people choose to continue despite knowing the turn out. It’s some weird denial I guess.

In some cases like this, I think the behavior of the parents is just part of the grieving process. I don't think the problem was really whether Indi died in Italy or in England; the actual issue is that her parents were unable or unwilling to acknowledge the facts about her condition. As (fairly) impartial bystanders, I think it's tantalizingly easy for us to dismiss them as stupid or malicious, and while either or both of those things may be true, they were dealing with an impossible situation that I would not wish on my worst enemy. Sometimes, the human brain understands things that the human heart does not.

you hit the nail on the head. That’s the reality of most of these cases at their core.

 

[AnOminous]

that is unfortunately the reason for sure. They rarely let adults die at home also due to the same factors.

Home hospice is increasingly a thing.

And so long as you have even a single person who can take you home, you can check yourself out AMA. You're not a prisoner unless it's to something like you'll die within minutes without life support. I knew someone who recently did that. He just wanted to die at home, not hooked up to a bunch of machines. (Stage 4 cancer plus had just broken a hip.)

 

[Android raptor]

Even among pro-lifers many support abortion for severe fetal abnormality.

Or at least palliative care only after birth if the mom won't/can't abort.

As much as I rag on prolifers, I do recognize there are some who didn't try to unnecessarily prolong the lives and suffering of their terminally ill spuds after birth. That credit where it's due.

With as rare as the specific mutation Indi had is, would that have been able to be diagnosed prenatally? I know genetic screening has gotten a lot cheaper and easier in the past decade, but would such a rare condition be able to be screened for before birth?

In some cases like this, I think the behavior of the parents is just part of the grieving process. I don't think the problem was really whether Indi died in Italy or in England; the actual issue is that her parents were unable or unwilling to acknowledge the facts about her condition. As (fairly) impartial bystanders, I think it's tantalizingly easy for us to dismiss them as stupid or malicious, and while either or both of those things may be true, they were dealing with an impossible situation that I would not wish on my worst enemy. Sometimes, the human brain understands things that the human heart does not.

Yeah as a childfree edgelord I fully acknowledge I will never be able to truly understand what's it's like to be a parent with a terminally ill child (other than devastating and traumatic obviously). I think that's the kind of thing only other parents that have gone that kind of loss can understand.

Loosing a child is one of the worst things that can happen to someone, so it makes sense it would make someone's brain go haywire and deep into denial. I agree, I don't think they were necessarily stupid or malicious. I do think that CC and similar types only made the situation worse though, since it just encouraged the parents to dive further in denial and blame the hospital for something that was tragic but unavoidable.

I don't think the parents deserve hate or shame, but I do think CC/Hollie/etc deserve stern criticism at the very least.

 

[Barbarella]

In the US home hospice is common, paid for by insurance, and people are sometimes sent home just hours/days before death. I just yesterday saw a woman with cancer who went home on the 3rd and died on the 5th.

I dislike Christian pro-life groups as much as anybody here, but I do not think the government has a right to decide your child’s end of life. They can decide not to treat, and then if the parents want to take the child home, let them. If it’s traumatic for an ambulance driver they are new to the job, because many have seen car crashes with eyeballs rolling around and heads knocked off. In that case, get one who won’t be traumatized by a child who stops breathing.

Sorry to be graphic but the NIH doesn’t own a child, and I’d be hard-pressed to want to birth a child there and then let somebody else make all the decisions for me if it turned out to have problems. I’m science minded so I’d understand and would not try weird treatments, but I might certainly want to take the child home.

I think doctors can try to explain death, its processes, and these situations, maybe with a psychologist, and help grieving parents make a kinder decision. Something is going on there that this happens so frequently, and I suspect it’s doctors who aren’t clear. Few want their kid to suffer once they truly understand. But if it’s very important for a parent to take their baby home to say good-bye, after 9 months plus of decorating, dreaming, planning, and they have ideas about how to make it peaceful-help them, don’t make them take you to court.

I haven’t understood it with any of them. Even the kid who hung himself-it turned into a shit show for sure but in the end she just wanted him to die at home. So put him on a portable vent, take him home and turn it off where she wasn’t angry at doctors. Who is it hurting? Certainly that kid wasn’t suffering and I doubt most of the brainless are.

I know I’m alone here but it just seems cruel to me for hospitals to ignore parents, and then have the right to lifers swarming like dirty flies just makes a sad situation nasty.

 

[User names must be unique]

Home hospice is increasingly a thing.

And so long as you have even a single person who can take you home, you can check yourself out AMA. You're not a prisoner unless it's to something like you'll die within minutes without life support

In the US home hospice is common, paid for by insurance, and people are sometimes sent home just hours/days before death. I just yesterday saw a woman with cancer who went home on the 3rd and died on the 5th.

At home palliative and hospice care is certainly a thing in the UK and a choice the NHS supports though not fully financially. It might have been possible for Indi when she was only on bottled oxygen if the parents had agreed to follow the palliative care route I think she may (IMO should) have been allowed to go home.

Once she was on full life support and unresponsive I don't see a point, even the seconds of transferring her from one vent to another is seconds of potential pain too many for no reason that benefits her. And given some of these parents prior opposition to care withdrawal I could entirely foresee them kicking medical staff out and keeping the vent going prolonging potential pain.

 

[Flourishing Pinecone ❧]

I do not think the government has a right to decide your child’s end of life.

The point of the court cases was to have someone (the Magistrates) act on the child's behalf to make a decision for what is best for the child, because there is concern that the parents cannot/will not make the best choice.

Just because a parent is a parent does not mean they are making a choice for their child that is in the child's best interest. Otherwise you could throw out any abuse charge as being ok because the parent says so, but the child is an individual not a possession.

 

[Sparkling Yuzu]

Gwen did take pretty good care of them.

By denying them muscle relaxers for their severe contractures and putting random, unsterile shit in their tubes?

On Friday, three appeal court judges ruled that life support treatment could be withdrawn only in a hospital or hospice, not at the family home.

It said the baby girl was taken from the Queen’s Medical Centre to a hospice with a security escort and a police presence, then was provided with “invasive ventilation” after her life support was removed. She died at 1.45am on Monday, the group said.

How would she have survived at home when she died within hours of being removed from life support and onto invasive ventilation?

They must have known the parents, or more likely Christian Legal Centre, were going to try some kind of fuckery or noisy protest (outside a children's hospice!)

Imagine even considering having a spergfest outside a children's hospice. Demonic.

They knew about Indi's condition before she was born, honestly fuck them.

Honestly pieces of shit for not getting an abortion, just as bad as Paki cousinfuckers sucking up NHS funds for their tard babies.

Yep, doesn't say when they learned it her heart condition might have shown up as early as the 11-14 week ultrasound, The brain abnormalities would have been clearly visible on the 18-21 scan, testing and diagnosis may have taken some time though.


Source: https://christianconcern.com/news/parents-to-fight-in-court-for-seven-month-old-babys-life/
Archive: https://archive.is/yE9f3

I suspect they've been told to stop talking about it because who ever is helping them with their PR knows it'll make them unsympathetic,
Even among pro-lifers many support abortion for severe fetal abnormality.

“We were pressed to have an abortion by medical professionals many times in the lead up to Indi’s birth, and the pressure to arrange for her to die and after her birth has been a continuation of this."
It's either one or the other. If they wanted to keep her, hospice care was the only option. But they would only be satisfied with keeping her corpse zombified with no chance of recovery. If you want that so badly, pay for your own private care and don't suck up public funds.

 

[Quack_Quack]

At home palliative and hospice care is certainly a thing in the UK and a choice the NHS supports though not fully financially. It might have been possible for Indi when she was only on bottled oxygen if the parents had agreed to follow the palliative care route I think she may (IMO should) have been allowed to go home.

The point of the court cases was to have someone (the Magistrates) act on the child's behalf to make a decision for what is best for the child, because there is concern that the parents cannot/will not make the best choice.

Just because a parent is a parent does not mean they are making a choice for their child that is in the child's best interest. Otherwise you could throw out any abuse charge as being ok because the parent says so, but the child is an individual not a possession.

The earlier point. If they had agreed to palliative and end of life care with a DNR as necessitated, she could have gone home on bottled oxygen. But it was the parents pushing and pushing.

With the court hearings, it boils down to: do the consultants and doctors trained in whatever specialty (in this case, paediatric intensive care) feel that the actions of the guardian are working in the best interests of their charge? In this case, and a few others, sadly, no. They were consumed by the anger and pain of losing a loved child and it had clouded their thoughts.

Here, specifically, I find it more pertinent to point out the consultants and nurses looking after Indi said repeatedly she was in pain. Her movements, her facial expressions, her body's reactions were all pain. Her parents, by keeping her alive, were keeping her in pain.

The parents were not acting in her best interests, and the judge made the best decision to remove the decision and place it with the professionals. Same with Archie, who shouldn't have festered in that bed for months because his mother is a mong. Same as Charlie. Same as Alfie.

 

[LonesomeDud]

@Sparkling Yuzu It won't let me quote you, but while the muscle relaxants were stupid to omit, putting non-sterile things in the g-tube is fine. I'm not even sure how many tube feeds are actually sterile vs clean.

 

[Sparkling Yuzu]

@Sparkling Yuzu It won't let me quote you, but while the muscle relaxants were stupid to omit, putting non-sterile things in the g-tube is fine. I'm not even sure how many tube feeds are actually sterile vs clean.

Interesting, I assumed the stuff in the tubes had to be sterile. I don't know why it won't let you quote me, I haven't blocked anyone. Yes, it was a dick move on Gwen's part and all because muscle relaxers aren't nAtUrAl.