2023 Israel-Palestine Armed Conflict

[HOMO FOR LIFE RETURNS]

It turns out when you're murdering thousands of children, not even a great PR team can gaslight people into thinking you're the good guys.

If only they could kill more.

 

[Catch The Rainbow]

This bulldozer is clearly the design of some Imperial Adeptus Mechanicus in the 40K Universe.

Look up kurdi bear, we have fanatical drunks driving them too

 

[Maori Kiwifruit Growers]

Those d

Non-orthodox "rabbi" whines about the big pro-Israel rally in DC today:

Spoiler: Thread

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Israeli forces have withdrawn from Tulkarm after fifteen hours. Seven Palestinians dead, no reported IDF casualties:

Spoiler: Aftermath

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Destruction of a memorial to Yasser Arafat:
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Those D9s are HUGE

 

[EyeGuy]

JEW FIGHT

BTW we ain't taking any of your mess, let's see you finish the cleansing.

Okay, but you have to take back your mess first.

Another Houthi missile shot down by an Arrow interceptor near Eilat:

Gallant states that Israel will continue the offensive into the southern part of Gaza as well:

IDF clearing out Shati, the last remaining Hamas enclave on the Gaza City waterfront:

A reservist got leave for the birth of his child. The new dad is already back in Gaza

 

[Scrumption]

It’s laughable when people heavily invest energy into decrying Israel for committing war crimes. If these people were arguing in good faith, then they would believe international and noninternational laws of war would apply equally to all parties. These people do not care because Hamas has been racking up an impressive number of crimes. Interestingly, the Palestinian “state,” however that is defined, is a signatory to the Rome Statute governing genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes, and crimes of aggression. Hamas has violated all of these but you don’t hear a peep about it from the people touting international law. Hague law and Geneva law are out the window. The ICC does nothing. The ICJ does nothing. Well actually, the ICC has investigated Palestine, only insofar as it pertains to investigating Israel’s actions toward Palestinians.

If Israel committed crimes then it can be investigated, but the laws must go both ways. You can at minimum acknowledge Israel attempts to project the image of abiding by these laws. Hamas on the other hand proudly ignores them except when criticizing Israeli actions.

It is dumber than that, the UN has accidently found evidence of Hamas War Crimes...and then gave the evidence back to Hamas.

Can you give more info or a source? I want to read about it.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

It’s laughable when people heavily invest energy into decrying Israel for committing war crimes. If these people were arguing in good faith, then they would believe international and noninternational laws of war would apply equally to all parties. These people do not care because Hamas has been racking up an impressive number of crimes. Interestingly, the Palestinian “state,” however that is defined, is a signatory to the Rome Statute governing genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes, and crimes of aggression. Hamas has violated all of these but you don’t hear a peep about it from the people touting international law. Hague law and Geneva law are out the window. The ICC does nothing. The ICJ does nothing. Well actually, the ICC has investigated Palestine, only insofar as it pertains to investigating Israel’s actions to Palestine.

If Israel committed crimes then it can be investigated, but the laws must go both ways. You can at minimum acknowledge Israel attempts to project the image of abiding by these laws. Hamas on the other hand proudly ignores them except when criticizing Israeli actions.

It is dumber than that, the UN has accidently found evidence of Hamas War Crimes...and then gave the evidence back to Hamas.

 

[Maori Kiwifruit Growers]

Super autistic take but I think the only way to "red pill" people about what war is like is for the USA to actually declare war. Like maybe we can actually declare war against Iran and end this shit.

 

[DiscoRodeo]

Watching westoids have conniptions about the amount of dead Palestinian civilians is extremely funny.

After over a month of action, 10k people out of the 2 million or so in the Gaza Strip have died.
When Dresden was bombed in 1945, 25k people out of 600k died in two days.

.5% in a warzone that heavily uses human shields vs 4% in a 'traditional' war

Dresden wasn't a war crime, its actually a nazi talking point, that got taken up by the soviets ironically. People really need to understand that war crime has a very specific legal context.

Tragedies may be just that, but it doesn't constitute a war crime by virtue of civilian deaths.

Spoiler: Brief Dresden explination

If you want to read this for the context: It was the Soviets who requested that Dresden be bombed, because of what happened in Budapest. Where is Dresden? In the Eastern front, in East Germany, not the Western front.



In the siege of Budapest, civilian deaths were three times the amount at Dresden. Due to apartment-to-apartment fighting in heavily entrenched buildings and neighborhoods, you wound up with massive civilian casualties- even past military casualties. Consider this the Nazi version of Stalingrad.

How can you avoid that again? Well, with bombing before going in.

Dresden was bombed, because they wanted less casualties overall, wanted to soften up the city, and for all intents and purposes, it worked. Its a meme that Goebbels first propagated, and then which was taken on by the East Germans and the Soviets to decry the West (when literally, the Soviets were the ones to request it).

This is all declassified stuff that people are apparently far too lazy to bother reading. Id recommend taking a look if you are bored, its honestly a well written historical document

https://media.defense.gov/2013/May/23/2001329959/-1/-1/0/Dresden%20again.pdf

You have about 25,000 total dead in Dresden, vs 70,000 civilians dead in Budapest. We're not even getting to the military deaths from Budapest. 140,000 Axis forces, vs 100 - 160,000 Soviets dead. 25,000 total dead (including civilians), vs upwards of 370,000 dead. You do the math, make the choice.

Even without that, you have the element that allied bombing tended to target military targets, rail depots, and munitions factories, and you can typically trace the rationale of the bombings as being pretty well founded.

This isn't even a "well if the Germans didn't want to get bombed, they shouldn't have started bombing civilians to begin with in the 30s during the Spanish civil war". This is more, Dresden is honestly a dumb meme because it seems like a pretty obvious choice from a military perspective that historically illiterate neo-nazis like to whine about.

How does this relate to Gaza? Well, in inner-city fighting, what is and what isn't a military target is hard to measure. Most of those who died at Dresden were not killed by the bombings, but by the fires from the bombings afterwards. You do have to soften up bunkers, large buildings, munitions depots, and areas of key strategic importance. This is going to result in casualties. The key thing with war crimes is actually more simple than people think. Are you going out of you way to target civilians? Is there any military rationale to an attack? Are you softening up a military target, etc? If so, fair enough- if this is sketchy or hard to justify, then you have a problem.

Nagasaki and Hiroshima are much more complicated than Dresden, Dresden is a lot more simple, in terms of basic math and logistics. But maybe you'd prefer that the red army have to go into Dresden themselves, add another 300,000 to the total dead, and also have mass civilian gang rapes throughout the siege.

Now was the bombing of Dresden strategic? Thats a better debate. Imo, fuck the Soviets, we should have let them bleed to take the city, but thats not debating the morality of the bombing, thats something else entirely.

If you want the nature of war crimes in Gaza, all the arguments come down to a few points.

You can't bomb designated safe areas,

You can't kill civilians,

You can't do collective punishment through starvation, deprivation of electricity, yada yada, etc.

Lets look at all three of these:

1) When are protected areas no longer protected?

Areas lose their protection once military operations are conducted in them. Plain and simple. According to the UN (seriously, who cares about the UN), places such as hospitals, churches, mosques, etc lose their protection as soon as military operations are launched out of them. Makes perfect sense, you would think- if people are firing at you from a hospital, you have to fire back. Who is that on? The people firing from a hospital. Civilization would probably hold that if you are surrounded by a bunch of refugees in a hospital, you have a duty (even as a combatant) not to bring conflict there, but Hamas is not civilized.



2) When can you kill civilians?

When there is no reasonable alternative.

This is a messy war, plain and simple. Hamas does not have a uniform, half the time they disguise themselves as civilians, and will launch attacks. Does anyone remember how things were before the wall, where Palestinians wound send in suicide bombers (some of them children?).

Your goal is to keep civilian casualties to a minimum. When you are warning civilians to get out, when you are bringing in your own incubators to these hospitals after you capture them, the fact that theyre not just wiping out civilians like cockroaches when they could, this is showing restraint.

Why are civilians dying? Because they're letting Hamas launch rockets out of their apartment buildings, down their blocks, theyre volunteering to be human shields effectively. Even then, civilian casualties are largely being tried to be kept to a minimum. Sometimes, mistakes are made (only leftists expect war to be a perfect, clean, automated, Amazon efficient thing). But at a high level, the emphasis is on the hierarchy wanting to keep the casualties minimal where applicable. If a civilian is sitting on a cache of weapons, refuses to move, and the person below the cache if firing at you, should you take the bullets and die? Obviously not. The only alternative is to pull out, which is basically the path to a ceasefire- which we know is not on the table for obvious reasons (ie, Israel has had dozens of ceasefires that are broken by Hamas a few years later, they do not work).

3) You can't do collective punishment through starvation, deprivation of electricity, yada yada, etc.

This is not a genocide. What kind of genocide do you have where the native population actually grows? That tangent may sound like I'm diverting from the point, but hear me out here. Gaza basically has nothing, and is entirely reliant on Israel for water, food, electricity, you name it.

The electricity, water, and most of the infrastructure is heavily mixed into Hamas' operations.

A) Israel is not under any obligation to give permanent gibs to the people living in Gaza. It has for decades, because its nice.

B) What happens when there is a war?

Do you think Israel should pay for Hamas operatives electric bills, while trying to kill them? "Hay, we know youre trying to kill us, but we're so nice we've decided to keep your lights on in your apartment and internet up, have a nice day".

Even then, Israel hasn't cut things off entirely, just in the areas currently under siege, where people have been warned to leave. Its kind of a dumb take.

Lots of sperging anyways, but do any of these things constitute war crimes? No. Wars are ugly things, a war crime occurs where you go out of your way to kill civilians, or harm them, for no reason. Israel has justification for everything, and not even the wishy washy leftist justification of "I feel bad so I can kill you, Allahu Ackbar".

 

[Alaric the Visigoth]

LMAO UKRAINEFAGS BTFO

Don't give your money to your fellow Europeans. Instead give it to sand niggers so they can blow up slightly darker sand niggers.

 

[NyQuilninja]

I know this is going to sound like they all look the same cuz they all do kind of .. nevertheless can any one tell me which ones are the Islamic freedom fighters known as Hamas and which ones are the civilians?

 

[EyeGuy]

Mohammed Shabir, a Palestinian political figure and former head of the Islamic University in Gaza, was killed together with his family in an airstrike:

His research included a paper titled "The Miracle of Creation of the Human Immunodeficiency Virus". Unfortunately, I couldn't find it on SciHub, but I would very much like to be islamically informed on the miracle of AIDS.

 

[Solid Hyrax]

Hamas uploaded a video of Noa Marciano, an Israeli hostage in Gaza pleading not to bomb them as they are close to other hostages, later on showing her dead body. Not exactly sure what's the cause of death.

Spoiler: Body

 

[Martys_not_smarty]

Dresden wasn't a war crime, its actually a nazi talking point, that got taken up by the soviets ironically. People really need to understand that war crime has a very specific legal context.

Tragedies may be just that, but it doesn't constitute a war crime by virtue of civilian deaths.

You know if they really wanted to dickride nazi civilian deaths they'd go past the decades debunked David Irving talking point of Dresden and go with the back to back sinkings of the Wilheim Gustloff and General von Steuben combined those were over 10k dead and the latter is considered the greatest maritime disaster in history.

 

[Catch The Rainbow]

Pictures from the rally



And my favorite:

 

[EyeGuy]

Dancing Israelis:

Before/after of a hotel in Gaza:

 

[HootersMcBoobies]

Tehran Times leaks a confidential conference call of ADL director Jonathan Greenblatt.

 

[AgendaPoster]

Tehran Times leaks a confidential conference call of ADL director Jonathan Greenblatt.

"Zionist entity" is most definitely not Iranian propaganda we've had this term in socialist and communist circles in East Europe since forever.
It's also not an age thing. People tend to support underdogs and despise the obviously powerful, influent and wealthy. Comfy.

 

[Catch The Rainbow]

It's also not an age thing.

You have to be baiting, every poll out there shows a sharp divide between boomers/x/millennials/Gen Z with support for Israel falling per generation.

 

[Bunny Wigglesworth]

According to translated excerpts from Telegram, they argue that if the West loves the Palestinians so much, as evidenced by their support of endless numbers of anti-Israel NGOs and UN resolutions (as well as still demanding the 2SS even after 7/10), then they should do what they advocate for "refugees" in every other conflict and encourage resettlement of them in their own countries. Despite adopting the most extreme right-wing political position in Israel ("transfer"), Ben Barak is still insisting on Twitter that he's not like the other settlers and is totally different from Ben Gvir and Smotrich:

And that the USA should take some of that 2+ Million as well. That’s enough to push someone into the anti-Israel camp. Likudniks can do their own dirty work, it’s not our problem. They also said we should pay their resettlement costs. Israeli govt gave Gazan jews $250K per family to relocate. Ben Barak also acts like this would just be temporary, as if those fugees would ever be allowed to return, especially with newly discovered oil & natural gas off Gaza’s coast. They can give those Gazans a share of profits from their natural resources instead of expecting western countries like US to take on even more debt. This is a pretty infuriating op-ed.

 

[Maori Kiwifruit Growers]

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Of all the Gay flags, the Homo-Jew flag isn't actually terrible to look at.