2023 Israel-Palestine Armed Conflict: Official Mass Debates Edition

[AgendaPoster]

With all due respect after seeing the videos of massacred women and children and jihadis going Allah is great do you think that Palestinians will ever elect anything less than hamas? Do you think if tomorrow USA falls as an empire and Israel loses support that hordes of Muslims won't descend on Israel and kill every man woman and child plus their pets with glee while celebrating? Like for real there is a reason why you don't negotiate with terrorists . Literally every Muslim country burned , attacked anything Jewish during this war and if they could they would parade the dead corpses of jews. I don't like Israel whats doing but its far less what I would do and much more gentle than i would do if i was in that position.

This is why you cannot rely on the US alone to be a forever empire, you need a supra-state structure that can democratically decide to put down chimpouts.
But that includes putting down Israeli chimpouts. And Amerimutt chimpouts. And Russian. And Chinese.
I would be more friendly towards a US empire if it was less obvious in its biases and more pro-European.
I want the US to consider Europeans as sacred as Jews are.
If that ain't happening, than I care about Jews as much as they cared about the civilians in Dresden in WW2.

---

Good video (mostly) from Breaking Points showcasing the Amerimutt Golem being quite dysfunctional and shamelessly engaging in very low quality propaganda

 

[MrJokerRager]

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These same cuckservatives didn't do shit when the strongest pro Israeli president in American history was rigged out of office.

Death to these cucked niggerfaggots.

 

[Solid Hyrax]

-snip-

Max Blumenthal is not a reliable source.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Max Blumenthal is not a reliable source.

What about Kalman Liebskind and Assaf Lieberman? Are they a more reliable source? Here's their podcast of the interview with Yasmin Porat that was broadcast on Kan Bet (part of the Israeli Broadcasting Corporation, Israel's national broadcaster) and is the source for Blumenthal's article.

https://omny.fm/shows/kan-news/4-26#description

I have the feeling that anything that portrays the current Israeli government in a bad light won't be "reliable" enough for you, though.

 

[Solid Hyrax]

What about Kalman Liebskind and Assaf Lieberman? Are they a more reliable source? Here's their podcast of the interview with Yasmin Porat that was broadcast on Kan Bet (part of the Israeli Broadcasting Corporation, Israel's national broadcaster) and is the source for Blumenthal's article.

I don't know them, can't tell you. I just know that you probably shouldn't source Max anymore.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

I don't know them, can't tell you. I just know that you probably shouldn't source Max anymore.

A former IDF intel soldier,


who works for Israel's public media,


seems likely to be biased in favor of Israel, not against it. Again, I doubt anyone short of the Almighty himself, and probably not even Him, would be a reliable source for you. But this is who the source for Blumenthal's story is.

 

[EpicGamerMoment]

The overwhelming majority of people on Kiwifarms who believe Israel is on the right because "Khamas raped and murdered 1400 gorillion poor israelis on October 7" would probably label themselves as anti establishment/outside the matrix/woke whatever the fuck. These are the same bozos who probably fell for Saddam's WMD's, would have fallen for Kuwaiti babies being taken out of incubators and will fall for whatever myth the US makes up to go to war with China in the future.

I hate posting memes in debate threads because I feel like they're cheap but I cannot fathom a better representation of these people;

 

[Random Internet Person]

 

[MrJokerRager]

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[MrJokerRager]

The overwhelming majority of people on Kiwifarms who believe Israel is on the right because "Khamas raped and murdered 1400 gorillion poor israelis on October 7" would probably label themselves as anti establishment/outside the matrix/woke whatever the fuck. These are the same bozos who probably fell for Saddam's WMD's, would have fallen for Kuwaiti babies being taken out of incubators and will fall for whatever myth the US makes up to go to war with China in the future.

I hate posting memes in debate threads because I feel like they're cheap but I cannot fathom a better representation of these people;

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Its interesting that there is a flip.

The leftists went from accepting every single government narrative on the kung flu to rejecting everything coming out of the Israeli government and its mouthpieces.

The rightists went from rejecting every single government narrative on the kung flu to accepting everything that comes out of the Israeli government and its mouthpieces.

Full Retardation Swings.

 

[AgendaPoster]

Full Retardation Swings.

That's the natural outcome of binding your dumass to a political party or ideology that will inevitably fail and you will have to look like a cretin trying to defend its obvious imperfections

 

[Catch The Rainbow]

Well, its especially surreal when you realize former Israel military/admissions by the IDF itself as well evidence (in the form of survivor's statements) keeps piling up that the majority of those killed Oct 7 were actually at the hands of the IDF itself:

>Isolated incidents mean the IDF killed most of the people on Oct 7th

Max somehow forgot to mention that the blind helicopter barrage was at the border fence while people were rushing into gaza wonder why he forgot to include that information?

The "mass Hannibal" he's referring to is the shooting of cars and people on the Gaza border. The IDF had no way to distinguish between the cars that had hostages in them and the ones who didn't, they chose to shoot. Calling it Hannibal is a stretch.

For the other thing, IDF didn't know if hostages were alive in the house and they took a risk when they shelled houses.

Israelis definitely killed their own but suggesting that it was a majority is insane when Hamas literally published their massacres online.

Not only did Britain and the Allies have no right to transfer Palestinian land to create the State of Israel and dispossess the Palestinians

Reminder the Palestinians refused the 1947 partition plan and the zionists accepted it.



Most of the Arab land in Palestine became part of the West Bank which was annexed by Jordan, don't hear much complaining about that tho. Same with Gaza although Egypt occupied it. The belt from Jaffa to Haifa consisted of Arabs who stayed and were allowed to keep their land, these people make up the majority of the Israeli Arabs.

All that poor public unused land who belonged to the British got taken by the jooz



Israelis took some Arab land but majority of Palestine Mandate was ownerless

they have no right, legally or morally, to force us to be a party to it.

Americans volunteered to get into the conflict and is still meddling, no one forced the Americans to get involved

By they way, when confronted with public support for Palestinians, people like Ben Shapiro threaten the world with the so-called Samson Option. They don't seem like anyone we should support, much less arm and give money to..

So because an American manlet who has no Israeli citizenship is running his mouth threatening people with weapons he doesn't control for a nation that he cannot influence policy in, we should stop supporting Israel? This is intellectually low even for you. Ben Shapiro literally doesn't matter.

 

[Justa Grata Honoria]

If you stole my ancestral house and the property it was on years ago you better believe I'd come back for it, no matter how long and whatever it takes

Are you from all people seriously going to use this? Nigga you live in USA which is basically composed of stolen land.

 

[MrJokerRager]

Are you from all people seriously going to use this? Nigga you live in USA which is basically composed of stolen land.

Based.

Though by that logic, Israel has no right to complain to the UN over getting "booed" for its actions.

Either kill all the sand people and annex Gaza.

Or go for the two state meme.

But they can't complain over how come everyone else besides Uncle Sam isn't cheerleadering for it.

 

[Feline Supremacist]

Israelis definitely killed their own but suggesting that it was a majority

What was the percentage? Was it 10%? 25%? I am sure that's a comfort to the families of the Israels killed by the IDF. Killing your own people to stop them from being captured by people who by all accounts (the hostages themselves) treat their hostages well is insane.

You (and others) are attacking the source and not the facts, which are that Israel, through incompetence or, even worse, as a matter of policy, killed its own citizens, the citizens in whose name this war is being prosecuted, and knowingly lied, claiming HAMAS did it. Israel then used the the deaths of the people they killed in propaganda all over the world in a futile attempt to counter the negative reaction of Israel's killing of unarmed, noncombatant women and children by the thousands in Gaza.

when Hamas literally published their massacres online.

I didn't see HAMAS targeting civilians, just soldiers. Soldiers aren't civilians, and its not a "massacre" when they're killed in a battle. Overrun and neutralized is a better way to describe it.

Wait, are you going with the "40 beheaded and baked in a oven babies" shtick that's been discredited as atrocity propaganda? If so, lol

which was annexed by Jordan

Palestinians aren't second class citizens in Jordan; Hussein's wife is a Palestinian. Same for Egypt.

Americans volunteered to get into the conflict

Correction: the American government did; a government full of dual US/Israeli citizens like Anthony "I come as Jew, not as an American" Blinken. A significant segment of the population in the US believes the Democrats rigged an election to regain power. Thousands took to the the streets to protest our involvement in Israel's war. Its disingenuous to suggest the majority of Americans support Israel's actions, especially if they consider their government illegitimate.

Ben Shapiro literally doesn't matter.

He's a Zionist. It's part of the Zionist platform, which he, and many others, vociferously support. I thought Zionists believed every Jewish life matters? Guess not if a Jew says the quiet part out loud and embarrasses Israel. You are being disingenuous by trying to wave him away since he's representative of the Zionists in the USA and Israel.

Are you from all people seriously going to use this? Nigga you live in USA which is basically composed of stolen land.

Yes, because no one stole anything in the USA. The Native Americans don't believe in the concept of land ownership to begin with and were happy to accept payment when it was offered. Last time I checked the USA and Native Americans are not war and haven't been since the 19th century.

The US and Native Americans aren't relevant to a discussion of Israel's actions in this war, though. Don't engage in Tu Quoque arguments.

 

[Catch The Rainbow]

What was the percentage? Was it 10%? 25%? I am sure that's a comfort to the families of the Israels killed by the IDF. Killing your own people to stop them from being captured by people who by all accounts (the hostages themselves) treat their hostages well is insane.

Hostages are coming out with more stories, turns out severely traumatized people just out of a horrific situation need some time to get readjusted.

The fact of the matter is that it doesn't look like there was a deliberate Hannibal and that while Israel was incompetent in its response, if hamas didn't attack Israel those citizens would still be alive.

I didn't see HAMAS targeting civilians, just soldiers. Soldiers aren't civilians, and its not a "massacre" when they're killed in a battle. Overrun and neutralized is a better way to describe it.

Wait, are you going with the "40 beheaded and baked in a oven babies" shtick that's been discredited as atrocity propaganda? If so, lol

The on duty IDF the hamas fighters killed were legitimate targets. I'm talking about the civilian massacres. What level of unreality do you live on where Hamas publishes footage of them shooting civilians and you deny that it happened? The whole 40 baby baked into an oven I get but just going off of what hamas themselves published, they still murdered tons of civilians in cold blood. It's genuinely evil to just dismiss that with a lol.

Palestinians aren't second class citizens in Jordan; Hussein's wife is a Palestinian. Same for Egypt.

Lmao they definitely are

https://www.longdom.org/open-access/the-status-of-palestinians-in-jordan-and-the-anomaly-of-holding-a-jordanian-passport-33577.html

Jordan loves taking away citizenship from Palestinians and leaving them stranded without any way to work.

He's a Zionist. It's part of the Zionist platform, which he, and many others, vociferously support. I thought Zionists believed every Jewish life matters? Guess not if a Jew says the quiet part out loud and embarrasses Israel. You are being disingenuous by trying to wave him away since he's representative of the Zionists in the USA and Israel.

Zionism is a wide tent. You really think that Ben Shapiro who's a religious Zionist is speaking for the Labor Zionists and the Revisionist Zionists?

Watching the clip, he points out the way that things could play out and says that if Israel has an existential crisis in a war with Iran, it will likely end in nuclear war with Israel hitting Iran. First, that's not the Samson option, the Samson option is destroying the worlds major capitals in revenge for the destruction of Israel. Second, this is the entire point of nuclear weapons, as a last resort weapon to hit the enemy with when things are at their worst. Are you anti nuclear weapon in general then?

Yes, because no one stole anything in the USA. The Native Americans don't believe in the concept of land ownership to begin with and were happy to accept payment when it was offered. Last time I checked the USA and Native Americans are not war and haven't been since the 19th century.

>Implying native Americans were a monoculture

If native Americas didn't believe in land ownership then what were the Indian wars? According to you they're all the same so why did they sell Manhattan for trinkets but then fight for their land in the west?

The USA and native Americans are not at war because the Americans destroyed them in the Indian wars and genocided them to the point where their people are ruined. They get token reservations and casinos as well as some gibs but that's it.

Correction: the American government did; a government full of dual US/Israeli citizens like Anthony "I come as Jew, not as an American" Blinken. A significant segment of the population in the US believes the Democrats rigged an election to regain power. Thousands took to the the streets to protest our involvement in Israel's war. Its disingenuous to suggest the majority of Americans support Israel's actions, especially a government that is considered illegitimate.

Other than polling showing that they do but go off

 

[Feline Supremacist]

if hamas didn't attack Israel those citizens would still be alive

If Israel didn't exist none of this would happen and everyone who died would be alive.

they still murdered tons of civilians in cold blood

HAMAS admitted to unintentional collateral damage right away; Israel is pretending it did nothing wrong and killed no Israelis. One is not like the other.

Jordan

For every disgruntled Palestinian you point to I can point to a dozen that are happy and successful in Jordan IRL.

Zionism is a wide tent

"Not all Zionists" isn't a refutation. It's still an ideology that is predicated on the elimination of the population of a territory and expropriation of land based on an emotional claim that is nothing but a religious text (which itself is deceptive since Zionism isn't an ideology based on religion).

If native Americas didn't believe in land ownership then what were the Indian wars? According to you they're all the same so why did they sell Manhattan for trinkets but then fight for their land in the west?

Ah, the old "I know I'm bad but so are you!" fallacy. I'll bite anyway but you should refrain from engaging in that if you wish to be taken seriously.

Manhattan was called originally called New Amsterdam, and Peter Minuit bought it from the Carnarsee Indians. Take it up with the Dutch, As for the West/Southwest US, that was claimed by the Spanish/French so take that one up with them. Any wars the US fought with the Plains tribes were settled by treaty, and as far as the Chiricahua and other Apache bands, those were settled by war with the US but the Apaches fought everyone, including the Spanish/Mexicans. We didn't deport them; they have their own sovereign lands aka reservations and have become quite wealthy as a result. Eleven Apaches are Medal of Honor recipients. Native Americans have the same rights as US citizens as well as citizenship in their respective federally recognized tribes, with rights ordinary Americans do not have.

There are still unresolved issues (nothing is 100%) but the US is not going to start a war with a single Native American tribe over those, much less drop bombs on unarmed women and children. The Indian Wars ended in the 19th century, over one hundred years ago. Ironically we settled the claims with a type of two state solution. If anything the Knesset should pay us to implement the same in Israel, but they won't because "my Zionism".

Other than polling showing that they do but go off

lmao still with the polling? No one is going to be honest with a rando cold calling in the current day. If 10% of the American people believe something to be true, eventually that's going to be accepted by the majority.

At least 15% of Americans believe the election was rigged.

 

[AgendaPoster]

One of my favorite media categories is Jew on Jew violence.
In this video, famed kapo and Nazi collaborationist Sam Seder is tricking comfy old papa Dennis Zionista Prager to take his call and defend Judeo-Christian Values
Enjoy!
And people think I'm anti-Semitic, when I consume so much Jewish product. Oy gevalt.

 

[MrJokerRager]

This is all Israel and the Jews and their shabbos goys supporters fault.

If they were not insistent on some post WW2 liberal rules international based order, they could kill all the indigenous people and have kept the land for themselves like the wars before WW2. But they all smug hypocritical retards dealing with Hummus while accusing Russia of genocide and war crimes.

IDF is probably giving us an insight into why did armies in WW1 and WW2 decided to blow up anything for the lulz and their Hannibal and Dahiya doctrine is some unique spicy stuff.

 

[Catch The Rainbow]

HAMAS admitted to unintentional collateral damage right away; Israel is pretending it did nothing wrong and killed no Israelis.

they literally reveled in killing civilians and releasing the videos as soon as possible. Thats the loosest version of "unintentional collateral damage" ive ever seen used lmao. I really do not understand how you cannot seem to comprehend that hamas killed civilians and gleefully released video of them doing so by themselves. The fact that Israel allows these articles/podcasts to make it past the military censor is evidence that israel isn't pretending anything.

"Not all Zionists" isn't a refutation. It's still an ideology that is predicated on the elimination of the population of a territory and expropriation of land based on an emotional claim that is nothing but a religious text (which itself is deceptive since Zionism isn't an ideology based on religion).

Zionism is literally just the belief that jews should have their own state in their ancestral homeland where they can govern themselves, beyond that it can lead anywhere as long as it has that central idea. I'm assuming you're talking about Ben's religious zionism in the first sentence and will point out there's plenty of archeological evidence that supports the claims of religious zionism.

We didn't deport them; they have their own sovereign lands aka reservations and have become quite wealthy as a result. Eleven Apaches are Medal of Honor recipients. Native Americans have the same rights as US citizens as well as citizenship in their respective federally recognized tribes, with rights ordinary Americans do not have.

Damn they sound just like the Druze, the Circassians, and the Arab Israelis who take advantage of not having to serve in the army to get a head start on their career. Gaza would have been like that if they actually elected a government who wanted to improve gaza instead of turn it into a fundamentalist shithole.

Ironically we settled the claims with a type of two state solution.

Making them live on reservations that reach the worst kinds of poverty possible in the west while they drink themselves to death on substances they are genetically vulnerable to is an acceptable solution to you? The only benefit is having their own limited "tribal law", no taxes, and being able to have casinos to exploit gamblers.

lmao still with the polling? No one is going to be honest with a rando cold calling in the current day. If 10% of the American people believe something to be true, eventually that's going to be accepted by the majority.

arent these the same pollsters that have people crowing because trump is doing so well? Polls matter in that case but not this one?