Law For the (italian) Supreme Court, sex in manga between adults and minors is a crime: what those found with such comics risk - Italian courts declare shotacons/lolicons are actual pedos



In recent days there has been much discussion on the web about Supreme Court ruling No. 47187/2023, which ruled that manga (and, more generally, all comic books) depicting sexual relations between adults and minors can also be classified as "child pornography." Therefore, anyone found in possession of such items can be prosecuted, since it is a prosecutable offense ex officio.

The Supreme Court's ruling

The ruling stems from a very specific case that the Supreme Court found itself dealing with: that of a man convicted in an abbreviated procedure in 2021 by the Court of Trieste, a sentence later upheld by the Court of Appeals.

The crime involved the individual's possession of child pornography, including 6 photographs depicting nude minors and 2 photographs of minors in explicit poses.

In addition to this, images and manga comics depicting incestuous sexual intercourse between adults and minors and illustrations of an erotic tale were found in the USB flash drive taken from the subject's home.
The defense decided to appeal to the Supreme Court because, according to lawyers, the Court of Appeals had erred in equating the illustrations in the man's possession with child pornography, since they did not depict real situations.

At this point, however, the Supreme Court stressed that "it must agree with the reference of the judgments on the merits to the pronouncements of this Supreme Court, which have conferred criminal relevance not only to the actual reproduction of the minor in a situation of pornographic physicality, but also to drawings, paintings, and everything that is suitable to give the viewer the idea that the object of the pornographic representation is a minor." elaboration that allows the confirmation of the conviction decision for both comic strips and illustrations of the erotic tale depicting minors engaged in incestuous acts or other sexual activities to be deemed immune from censure."

That is: visual representations potentially capable of generating in the viewer the idea of witnessing a pornographic performance with a minor are entirely superimposed on images related to real situations.

Even then, the Supreme Court explained that the criminal relevance of the conduct lay in the depiction of situations in which minors were reduced to the rank of mere sexual objects, regardless of whether real people or purely fictional characters were portrayed in them.

Are those who own erotic manga at risk?


Of course, not all erotic manga-known as hentai-are prohibited by law. The restrictions affect only those who possess material depicting minors.

In that case the penalty is imprisonment for up to 3 years and with a fine of not less than 1,549 euros.

Who decides whether it is child pornography


The question arises: how does one determine whether the cartoon character is a minor or just an adult who shows much less than the age he or she is, since these are nonexistent subjects?

This assessment is referred to the judge of the first instance, who is called upon to evaluate the physical features of the characters portrayed and the possible development of sexual characters: if they are still in the adolescent stage, with breasts not yet formed, then there can be talk of child pornography.


Translated with deepl but proof read.
 
This assessment is referred to the judge of the first instance, who is called upon to evaluate the physical features of the characters portrayed and the possible development of sexual characters: if they are still in the adolescent stage, with breasts not yet formed, then there can be talk of child pornography.

This last bit is funny, they are going to force some court aide to look at hentai and determine whether the tits are big enough to be considered an adult.
 
This last bit is funny, they are going to force some court aide to look at hentai and determine whether the tits are big enough to be considered an adult.
i used to watch Dragonball on TV and some earlier episodes featured the protagonist's exposed child penis. i wonder if someone will be tasked to watch through all of the show and document it all only to show it to some court.
 
I don't trust this. Translations are finnicky, and the case mentioned here is one where the dude had actual real life CSAM with the shota/loli stuff in the same HDD. The lawyers seem to have tried to keep him free by somehow using the troll logic of "actually these pictures are just drawn so the conviction is wrong!" as if the hentai cancels out the CSAM. Sounds more like the standard here is "no you can't just claim it is "just art" when we can literally see the child porn retardo cazzo".
 
Yeah he apparently had real CP but fucky translation so not sure.

The concept of ultima ratio in criminal law gets shit on more and more. Criminal law should require actual harm, not just moralfagging. That way lies "well doxxing someone is amoral, so browsing kiwifarms is a crime now"
 
A couple years ago, before the SMO, Russia had a preop troon jailed for extremely sadistic drawn CP. The usual suspects (Meduza and Novaya Gazeta, anti-Communists, now gone and their media shuttered or relocated, but very much active back then) immediately started whining, "It's just scribbles! muh hyooman rites!" They also kept referring to it as "Michelle" (it was legally male).

Now I don't really trust the Russian government jailing normies for IT crimes, our cops and justices are unbelievably computer-illiterate. But "the feds can easily plant all sorts of objectionable material on someone's VK page because they have root access (they do!)" wasn't the argument they were making, they immediately admitted the rapemurder porn was his -- but muh scribbles!

IRL, there are consequences w.r.t. the broader principles, speech this and privacy that, 1A butchery and how it will affect cartoon frogs and campaign contributions. I am generally against jailing people for things they deny poasting on the online, raid them properly and get better proof. But all else being equal -- does anyone seriously think that a troon who masturbates to dismemberment and rape of young boys should be free and alive?
 
I don't trust this. Translations are finnicky, and the case mentioned here is one where the dude had actual real life CSAM with the shota/loli stuff in the same HDD. The lawyers seem to have tried to keep him free by somehow using the troll logic of "actually these pictures are just drawn so the conviction is wrong!" as if the hentai cancels out the CSAM. Sounds more like the standard here is "no you can't just claim it is "just art" when we can literally see the child porn retardo cazzo".

Yeah he apparently had real CP but fucky translation so not sure.

The concept of ultima ratio in criminal law gets shit on more and more. Criminal law should require actual harm, not just moralfagging. That way lies "well doxxing someone is amoral, so browsing kiwifarms is a crime now"
i will address this:
yes, the article(s) says he had actual CP on his drive.
the issue was that the prosecution argued he had thousands of lolicon/shotacon images and videos on his computer, and that was initially used as aggraveting factor.
his defence appealed saying that while he had actual CP, please drop the charges related to the rest of the material as they are just drawings
supreme court said fuck you pedo, your aggraveting charges stay. but this sets a precedent because it says pedophilic drawings are on the same page as real CP.
 
I don't trust this. Translations are finnicky, and the case mentioned here is one where the dude had actual real life CSAM with the shota/loli stuff in the same HDD. The lawyers seem to have tried to keep him free by somehow using the troll logic of "actually these pictures are just drawn so the conviction is wrong!" as if the hentai cancels out the CSAM. Sounds more like the standard here is "no you can't just claim it is "just art" when we can literally see the child porn retardo cazzo".
Did the lawyers argue that, or did the defendant? I seem to recall that Nick Bate tried something like "I prefer poopy buttholes so there's no way I fingered her in the front" (I forgot what the wording was but it involved scat fetishism), which was not recommended or advised by his lawyer.
 
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