Should lolicon / shotacon be considered drawn child pornography?

[Apis mellifera]

I will also go as far as to saying all forms of pornography should be banned. Pornography when exposed to it for so long really fucks with your mind and that mentality causes harm to others around them.

I agree, but it's not all that practical in practice, really. Like alcohol during the prohibition, addicts are going to go after their drug of choice because sensation-seeking is a plague. Just being exposed to it, even if it's not conventionally considered actual, full-on pornography, can be profoundly damaging for the psychological development of young people, I think the better solution would be to remove pornographic material from adverts and popular media, and develop a culture that is aware of the real harm of pornography and strongly discourages usage of it. It won't save everyone, but having ad campaigns discouraging smoking and the usage of drugs such as heroin, methamphetamine, and crack were effective in reducing the likelihood of teens and children trying them and becoming addicted, and reducing the overall number of addicts later in life.

 

[WelperHelper99]

This, exactly. Its amazing how many people in this thread have presented exactly this strawman argument. It's basically the Kiwi version of "everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi."

Like I said before, its funny how Kiwis will call out SJWs for wanting laws passed to ban things they find obscene... but the minute its Kiwis own fee-fees, suddenly people here are advocating the exact same thing.

Wanting mean tweets banned and wanting CSAM banned are two different things my libertarian friend

My own problem is I need way more to go on. Of course pre-teen Deku isn't a loli... he's a boy, and lolis by definition have to be girl. As for the second anime, I've never seen it, I've only got that box art and your description to go on (and I'm just taking it on faith that your description is accurate).

A shota is the same difference man and you know it. Deku is just a kid. Not sexualized.

Sooo. I just want to be clear:

Are ANY of these lolis/sexualized? If so, please explain.

View attachment 5535281

Why is the waist tied to make her chest stick out?

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Possibly ok

View attachment 5535288

Skirt is too fucking short, screams panty shots, and way too much thigh.

View attachment 5535305
(incidentally I have absolutely no idea what anime this last image is from, it legit just came from a duckduckgo image search for "loli." The other three I could describe if you need context)

Its too close up so *no comment* but I reserve future judgement

And both are drawings with no base in reality, with no rights, but to act as a vessel for the creator to convey a story. One is used to tell a goofy story and one is used to make your peepee feel funny, but they both don't exist, don't feel, don't have a will, they are dots/lines/squares on a screen or a piece of paper. But wont somebody think of the children....reee!!!, look you can argue however you want but its a fact pedos exist and will probably still walk the earth when we are long gone. Rather have them fapping to a drawing on paper than anything involving a real kid. The way i see it: Pedo fapping to loli is a kid saved.

Oh so your argument is allow pedos to exist at all and give them drawings to fap to??? I have this thing called the slippery slope to teach you about

Not for me way too sweet....when i watch anime it needs to have tentacles.

And there it is. You killed the legitimatcy of your entire argument because you couldn't keep it in your pants.

 

[Father Fornicatio]

Oh so your argument is allow pedos to exist at all and give them drawings to fap to??? I have this thing called the slippery slope to teach you about

Yup, no problem at all, like the: please think of the childeren, the slippery slope in this situation is a stupid fallacy always used to censor, dominate, or take away liberty's. Weed doesn't make one do hard drugs, a beer once a while doesn't make a alcoholic, a GTA game doesn't make one a car hijacking mass murderer and i could go on. Fact is if one is idiot enough to turn to crime, one will turn to crime regardless of games, loli, or whatever. And since pedos don't walk around with a big P on their forehead, its a bit difficult to spot them and for all i know you could be one. So i rather let them have a fictional outlet with no victims to sate their urges so to speak. And if one crosses the line, its shotgun time, simples.

Sorry, i am a sucker for suction cups....rawr

 

[Otoya Yamaguchi]

is drawn CP dangerous? idk....maybe, maybe not, i lean toward no

but we should really focus on people actually fucking kids and buying/selling them i think...

like can we worry about actual kids instead of pixels?

And there it is. You killed the legitimatcy of your entire argument because you couldn't keep it in your pants.

he does that all the time. i posited in another thread that he seemed to have some kind of mental deficiency.

take away liberty's.

porn is not a liberty. your attitudes have directly enabled sexual degeneracy since the 1950s.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Yup, no problem at all, like the: please think of the childeren, the slippery slope in this situation is a stupid fallacy always used to censor, dominate, or take away liberty's. Weed doesn't make one do hard drugs, a beer once a while doesn't make a alcoholic, a GTA game doesn't make one a car hijacking mass murderer and i could go on. Fact is if one is idiot enough to turn to crime, one will turn to crime regardless of games, loli, or whatever. And since pedos don't walk around with a big P on their forehead, its a bit difficult to spot them and for all i know you could be one. So i rather let them have a fictional outlet with no victims to sate their urges so to speak. And if one crosses the line, its shotgun time, simples.
View attachment 5535454
Sorry, i am a sucker for suction cups....rawr

I can point you to Ethan Ralph alone on the weed and beer bit, lol, lmao, the slippery slope is fucking real newbie.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Wanting mean tweets banned and wanting CSAM banned are two different things my libertarian friend

Its not CSAM if no children are actually being assaulted, my friend.

 

[Father Fornicatio]

he does that all the time. i posited in another thread that he seemed to have some kind of mental deficiency.

I have made 16 post on this forum and this is the first one you react to, please point me to this all the time?

porn is not a liberty. your attitudes have directly enabled sexual degeneracy since the 1950s.

Reading isn't your strong suite, isn't it?.

I can point you to Ethan Ralph alone on the weed and beer bit, lol, lmao, the slippery slope is fucking real newbie.

Ah yes, Ethan Ralph turned into a shit sniffing, Xanax devouring, rage pig, because of beer and the devils lettuce. Not because there was an autistic retard slumbering inside him to begin with, but the beer and weed and later the bottles Tequila and uppers and downers certainly didn't help i agree. Maybe destroying the Ralph Retort and al that attention wasn't that helpful either, and maybe it was because his mother loved to sniff paint. Slippery slope is dumb and overused 99% of the time.

 

[Otoya Yamaguchi]

I have made 16 post on this forum and this is the first one you react to, please point me to this all the time?

sorry, i quoted the wrong thing. My b. but moving on

Reading isn't your strong suite, isn't it?.

you mean suit? no, it is

Ah yes, Ethan Ralph turned into a shit sniffing, Xanax devouring, rage pig, because of beer and the devils lettuce.

no, it was because of ppl like you normalizing and accepting sexual deviancy

 

[skykiii]

Wanting mean tweets banned and wanting CSAM banned are two different things my libertarian friend

Let's not do the conflation game, okay? We're not talking about CSAM we're talking about cartoons with kids in them.

Also I'm not a libertarian. I just don't trust governments at all... at least not human ones. Maybe if we were ruled by a computer or a paranormal entity....

A shota is the same difference man and you know it. Deku is just a kid. Not sexualized.

What I was getting at is your comparison gave me very little to go on and it was way too vague (especially not being familiar with either anime). The only thing that really stood out to me is that the second show featured "a man turned into a pervy little girl."

You do realize most Kiwis don't have psychic powers and can't be expected to understand you from something as vague as that, right? HOW is she "pervy?" Does the show actually feature anything suspect, or is it just that you find the concept alone distasteful? The cover art just showed a bunch of characters that don't look different from tons of other anime, so that wasn't helpful either.

Why is the waist tied to make her chest stick out?

.... Robes have sashes. Even bath robes meant for men.

And I speak from experience when I say that "puffing out" is normal--and its not just at the chest, its the entire above-the-sash area. That amount of slack is necessary because otherwise they become uncomfortable to wear and hard to move your arms in. If the animators are doing their job then the puff should be all around, not just in front.

Possibly ok

Fair enough.

Skirt is too fucking short, screams panty shots, and way too much thigh.

FWIW by the time she was introduced, that show started actively avoiding panty shots (and they were rare even before then). Otherwise, fair enough.

Its too close up so *no comment* but I reserve future judgement

Same here.

So, I'm glad there's nuance here.

But this goes back to the topic's title of whether Lolicon should be legal, and my own objection of how we define it...

And the problem is: we won't be the ones defining it. I would almost be fine if it were you writing the law.

But it wouldn't be you. It would be the out-of-touch idiots that run the judicial branches of our government. They wouldn't be nerds like us, they would be grandpas who still associate Batman with Adam West and whose concept of "comics" means Garfield and Charlie Brown.

We already rant all the time about how our government fucks up on a daily basis. Why would we trust them with this?

Previously I speculated that a law being passed would result in an over-reach, similar to Seduction of the Innocent or the Mike Diana trial, where its almost impossible to create art because anything more challenging than an episode of Care Bears could now be considered "obscenity"...

.... But there is another possibility:

Suppose the lefties won and got lolicon to be protected speech. From there it would springboard until in five years Netflix is announcing a remake of Child Bride.

.... Like I said, I don't trust legislation. Whoever wins, we lose.

 

[WelperHelper99]

snip

Ok, I see your core points. You hate government. Me I see it as nessicary to a functioning world. And I see it less of legislation being the deciding factor and moreso the courts. That's about the best compromise you're gonna get.

And my argument isn't just legal. Morally it's reprehensible. It's not so much the art itself but the people it breeds. Absolute scum of the earth. I hate them, shitting up threads with their loli and talking about how much they fap to it. 4chan is nigh unusable because of them. I want them gone. The roaches shouldn't be given a inch because they are genuine predators

 

[Father Fornicatio]

no, it was because of ppl like you normalizing and accepting sexual deviancy

Touche on the reading, but i don't normalize anything, its choosing between 2 evils and i choose the one with no victims. We can pretend that it all go away if we ban everything we don't want, but it still exists and festers underground only to explode and one day to end in tragedy. I think that putting loli/shota in the same box with the real stuff is not helpful at all and even detrimental to law enforcement which is already overloaded at this point. Also note that in nations with puritanical decency laws, the amount of bestiality, rape, child rape, homo sexual ism is staggering and even throwing one of a building don't seem to work as a deterrence. I should clarify that by liberty's i mean the government whom like to control everything and check everything with no regards for privacy, and are happy to restrict freedoms to "save the children".

 

[Otoya Yamaguchi]

Touche on the reading, but i don't normalize anything, its choosing between 2 evils and i choose the one with no victims.

it does have victims. Youre living in it. Have you notbheard of parents putting kids on hormone blockers or jerking off to their own children dressed as opposite genders?

We can pretend that it all go away if we ban everything we don't want,

nothing to do with want, everything to do with banning things that harm others

Also note that in nations with puritanical decency laws, the amount of bestiality, rape, child rape, homo sexual ism is staggering

Oh?

 

[WelperHelper99]

Touche on the reading, but i don't normalize anything, its choosing between 2 evils and i choose the one with no victims. We can pretend that it all go away if we ban everything we don't want, but it still exists and festers underground only to explode and one day to end in tragedy. I think that putting loli/shota in the same box with the real stuff is not helpful at all and even detrimental to law enforcement which is already overloaded at this point. Also note that in nations with puritanical decency laws, the amount of bestiality, rape, child rape, homo sexual ism is staggering and even throwing one of a building don't seem to work as a deterrence.

I don't know about you, but gays don't walk around much in daylight in Saudi Arabia. As for "evil festering underground" it's drawings of children getting fucked and raped. Burn the drawings. Hell, ban porn, it's a sin and is leading to the downfall of society. We will live.

 

[UnsufficentBoobage]

Otherwise, fair enough.

man, Chibiusa literally was the first 6000 year old horny little girl in manga. She makes moves on her own dad.

 

[WelperHelper99]

man, Chibiusa literally was the first 6000 year old horny little girl in manga. She makes moves on her own dad.

Ok what the actual fuck

 

[Father Fornicatio]

it does have victims. Youre living in it. Have you notbheard of parents putting kids on hormone blockers or jerking off to their own children dressed as opposite genders?

I don't know about you, but gays don't walk around much in daylight in Saudi Arabia. As for "evil festering underground" it's drawings of children getting fucked and raped. Burn the drawings. Hell, ban porn, it's a sin and is leading to the downfall of society. We will live.

You two are fucking idiots, well i have made my point clear and you two should follow your own advice. This thread has become a slippery slope for you, the amount of time you are spending here is clearly messing with your brains. Stayed here much longer than i wanted to so...ta ta.

 

[Stan]

if Loli and shota are not “drawn child porn”, what is?
And fwiw yeah ban it. Raise the age of consent to 1 million years!

 

[WelperHelper99]

View attachment 5535592
You two are fucking idiots, well i have made my point clear and you two should follow your own advice. This thread has become a slippery slope for you, the amount of time you are spending here is clearly messing with your brains. Stayed here much longer than i wanted to so...ta ta.

Pal, you'll find that most people here are violently opposed to anime in general, including High Lord Josh. Have fun

 

[skykiii]

man, Chibiusa literally was the first 6000 year old horny little girl in manga. She makes moves on her own dad.

She's not 6000 years old even. She's like nine.

Ok what the actual fuck

Dude is kinda misrepresenting it.

Basically, its a time travel thing. Chibiusa is from the future, back in time to find something that doesn't exist in her time but does in modern day, and she meets her parents when they were still teens and dating... and they apparently look different enough that she thinks they're strangers.

Once she figures out who they are, she stops "making moves on her dad" (said moves are, IIRC, more like a kid wanting attention rather than actual romantic overtures).

And my argument isn't just legal. Morally it's reprehensible. It's not so much the art itself but the people it breeds. Absolute scum of the earth. I hate them, shitting up threads with their loli and talking about how much they fap to it. 4chan is nigh unusable because of them. I want them gone. The roaches shouldn't be given a inch because they are genuine predators

So many things wrong here.

Wanting legislation because of "morality" is the same bullshit gun control advocates use. Legit at no point in history has trying to legislate morality ever worked out for the better. Remember Prohibition?

Secondly, the whole "lolicon turns people into pedophiles" bullshit. Art can not make people something they don't already have the capability for. This is no different than Jack Thompson arguing that playing Grand Theft Auto will make people go out and steal cars or that watching Superman will make kids think they can fly if they put on a cape. I frankly already did a whole topic about why these kinds of takes are dumb, and its frustrating that I'm still hearing Jack Thompson or Anita Sarkeesian-esque takes from a forum that is supposed to be smarter than these people.

Third, basically you're saying things ought to be banned because you're mad people say things online. TOUCH GRASS.

 

[Otoya Yamaguchi]

You two are fucking idiots,

pfffft. dude, great post