Should lolicon / shotacon be considered drawn child pornography?

Is OP a pedophile?

  • yes

    Votes: 967 74.3%
  • no

    Votes: 210 16.1%
  • it should be regulated, not outright banned

    Votes: 124 9.5%

  • Total voters
    1,301
He’s saying they’re disgusting and contrary to the public interest. That’s sufficient reason to ban them. Nobody has an unlimited right to be tolerated in public.
Exactly what I'm saying. The entire world need not cater to a disgusting fetish. A fetish that constantly tries to spread to the rest of the world like a plague.
What? How am I "complicating" anything? If anything it takes more mental gymnastics (or a dirtier mind) to think she's "trying to fuck her father" than to think she's just a kid who wants attention.

Also, "its for pervs?" Sailor Moon was aimed at little girls.
Oh, I'm the pervert. Lol! Sailor Moon for decades has been fap material of neckbeards worldwide
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You can't escape this image. This is Sailor Moon's target demographic
 
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Exactly what I'm saying. The entire world need not cater to a disgusting fetish. A fetish that constantly tries to spread to the rest of the world like a plague.

Oh, I'm the pervert. Lol! Sailor Moon for decades has been fap material of neckbeards worldwide

You can't escape this image. This is Sailor Moon's target demographic
Sorry, I made the mistake of thinking you were interested in actual discourse, but clearly intelligence and thought are alien concepts to you. My bad.
 
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Because it just leads to terrible things and degenerative effects on society as a whole. It's evil. Black and white. Lolicons are no better than child molesters.
And that is your opinion and you have no scientific data to back it up. Making hyperbolic, verbose personal statements doesn't make you come across grand or moral, just unhinged.

Gun control advocates aren’t morally opposed to gun access.
This I will say is inaccurate. Many do see gun ownership as immoral, as they consider guns themselves as some kind of inherent evil and anyone who owns one is not trustworthy.

That’s your assertion but it’s there’s no evidence to suggest it’s true
That's the incorrect way of looking at his statement. His statement is being made in opposition to the assertion that looking at violent or sexual media will make someone more violent or sexual. That is the assertion, and it is one that is not backed up by scientific evidence (and scientists have extensively studied the subject). So, no, the body of scientific evidence actually supports his statement, that partaking in violent or sexual media doesn't not influence someone to become more violent or sexual themselves.

I think you even undercut your own point by calling child pornography art.
We aren't talking about child pornography, we are talking about lolicon/shotacon, which isn't child pornography because no actual children are involved in its creation.

He’s saying they’re disgusting and contrary to the public interest. That’s sufficient reason to ban them.
Which is functionally no different than what the other guy said. And the natural counter argument is that finding something personally disgusting is not sufficient enough to ban it.
 
..... Duh.
So what's it make someone fapping to loli?

I've said before I'm against bans because they just make things worse, not better.
So like I said, you're defending it. If you don't like hearing that, don't do it.

It actually would, because laws have to be enforced, otherwise the ban would be a ban in-name-only. And enforcement means resources.
Jaywalking is banned, it's not causing serial killers to go uncaught.

You do know that the other forum you're known to hang out at compiled screencaps of you being happy the ten year old girl didn't get to abort her rape-baby, right?
Stop beating around the bush and quote me in context, here. If anyone requires a medically necessary abortion, I support it, be the person 10 or somehow 100. Simple as that, you retarded faggot.

But yeah, I'm not sure how there's any ambiguity about how extreme your views are. I recall even another anti-abortion Kiwi said you basically sounded like a monster.
There's nothing extreme about avoiding the unnecessary killing of unborn babies, in fact there's something extreme about the opposite.

He wasn't the first to call me a monster, he won't be the last.

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And now you're trying to backpedal because I called your bullshit, Mr. "Stubbornly Honest."
Your have my condolences, it must be hard losing your reading comprehension. I'm here for you if you need anything.

You want an absurd amount of control, seemingly have a wide list of things that should be not allowed (And IIRC, should incur the death penalty), and I believe more than once you said your ideal time period was 1920s America (unless I'm getting you mixed up with someone else), which from all I've heard was not exactly a happy time to be alive.....
What is it that I think which should not be allowed, that you support? I don't expect you to be specific, hence your current vaguery.

It's hard to say for sure, having been born in the late 80's, but looking back the 50's seemed as close to ideal as modern times have been. The 20's is when the Great Depression started, so probably not an ideal time.

"At least kids aren't having their genitals mutilated!" is small comfort when they're instead being tommygun'd by mobsters.
How many children were killed by the mob?

This is another thing frustrating about these topics, taking something that's actually pretty simple and seeing something wrong or dirty about it.

Kids like to fantasize about what they'll be like when they grow up. A kid who can magically turn adult and be a doctor or a spy or something else is a fun fantasy for them (and in some cases anime uses this as an opportunity to educate them on the realities of these professions).

If you're seeing anything "skeevy" about this, then maybe you're the sick one.
Fair enough. I liked Power Rangers, and the Blue Ranger in one season was a kid who aged up when he transformed (he was by far my least favorite character though).

You can't escape this image. This is Sailor Moon's target demographic
To be fair, that freak is dressed up as Sailor Moon, not the loli one.
 
And that is your opinion and you have no scientific data to back it up. Making hyperbolic, verbose personal statements doesn't make you come across grand or moral, just unhinged
This site is my data pool. Vito the Pedo. Giggly Goonclown. Meigh the horse. must I continue? All of them are disgusting wretched people without exception.
To be fair, that freak is dressed up as Sailor Moon, not the loli one.
Hes still a prime example of the fan base
 
Lolicons are no better than child molesters.

This is what the lolicon (and "immoral fiction" in general) debate comes down to, people who take issue with it's morality solely boils down to "it makes me uncomfortable, therefore it is bad".
There is no other standard that matters to them, which is why they unironically say things like this "Child molestion makes me uncomfortable, lolicon makes me uncomfortable too, so they're equally bad"
While in reality, and to anyone who actually puts some *thought* into their morality, going beyond immediate emotional reactions to concepts will realize this is objectively not true because you can measure the impact they have on people in reality.
Child porn/sexual abuse is bad because of the physical and emotional damage it causes to children because of their involvement, they are physically., emotionally and inherently involved in the acts.
The same can not be said for lolicon, in fact they are so disconnected that if children mysteriously vanished off the face of the earth, lolicon could still be produced, even one hundred years after the fact, it could still be made, because children play literally no role or involvement to its creation and thus are completely unaffected by it. The lack of physical and emotional damage is what makes them different and is what makes one okay and the other not.
Anyone who doesn't agree, anyone who says they are equally as bad are simply stating "I do not care about the harm it causes kids, I care about how much it upsets me to think about"

Also I'm aware the person I'm replying to is obviously posting in bad faith but people like this do exist.
 
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This is what the lolicon (and "immoral fiction" in general) debate comes down to, people who take issue with it's morality solely boils down to "it makes me uncomfortable, therefore it is bad".
There is no other standard that matters to them, which is why they unironically say things like this "Child molestion makes me uncomfortable, lolicon makes me uncomfortable too, so they're equally bad"
While in reality, and to anyone who actually puts some *thought* into their morality, going beyond immediate emotional reactions to concepts will realize this is objectively not true because you can measure the impact they have on people in reality.
Child porn/sexual abuse is bad because of the physical and emotional damage it causes to children because of their involvement, they are physically., emotionally and inherently involved in the acts.
The same can not be said for lolicon, in fact they are so disconnected that if children mysteriously vanished off the face of the earth, lolicon could still be produced, even one hundred years after the fact, it could still be made, because children play literally no role or involvement to its creation and thus are completely unaffected by it. The lack of physical and emotional damage is what makes them different and is what makes one okay and the other not.
Anyone who doesn't agree, anyone who says they are equally as bad are simply stating "I do not care about the harm it causes kids, I care about how much it upsets me to think about"
I don't need to justify calling a obscenity obscene when I see it. It shouldn't exist. Morality governs the world. Unless you want a lawless world where people kill eachother willy nilly. It's disgusting, it adds no value to the world. Get rid of it.

In fact That's my question: what benifit does lolicon bring humanity?
 
Hes still a prime example of the fan base
Yeah but nothing indicates he's a pedophile per se, although I would not be surprised.

There is no other standard that matters to them, which is why they unironically say things like this "Child molestion makes me uncomfortable, lolicon makes me uncomfortable too, so they're equally bad"
While in reality, and to anyone who actually puts some *thought* into their morality, going beyond immediate emotional reactions to concepts will realize this is objectively not true because you can measure the impact they have on people in reality.
While he's exaggerating how bad the former is and indirectly downplaying the harm of the latter, at least he's taking morality into consideration. A moral society is necessary, so even though the impact is worlds apart, both have a negative effect on society (albeit to staggeringly different degrees).

I really wish people didn't try to divorce society of a moral compass. It would take 100 pages spanning a 1000 topics to even begin to touch on the effects, the moral fabric of society is shredded so it should be no surprise we have so much crime and degeneracy.
 
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That's the incorrect way of looking at his statement.
So, no, the body of scientific evidence actually supports his statement, that partaking in violent or sexual media doesn't not influence someone to become more violent or sexual themselves.
You’re dumb as a doorknob for saying that ‘science hasn’t proved X’ means ‘science supports Y’. He has made the positive assertion that art is incapable of affecting a change in a person. A positive statement requires justification, particularly one which flies against all common understanding (specifically that the purpose of art is to affect change).

Why say ‘violent or sexual’ when we are only talking about sexual? Because physical violence is the only one which you think has evidence that supports your case. However, there’s no evidence to suggest that findings about physical violence can be applied to sexual violence. Even if they could be compared (they can’t), there’s no evidence to suggest that that in such a comparison playing video games would be analogous to the use of pornography.
We aren't talking about child pornography, we are talking about lolicon/shotacon, which isn't child pornography because no actual children are involved in its creation.
I believe that it is child pornography and it is legally classified as such by the authorities where I live. Why not address the broader point instead of quibbling over semantics?
Which is functionally no different than what the other guy said. And the natural counter argument is that finding something personally [emphasis added] disgusting is not sufficient enough to ban it.
I have emphasised the word personally in your statement. It’s not about what I personally think, it’s about the objective fact that most of society finds them repugnant and allowing such conversations to take place in public is contrary to the public interest.
 
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So what's it make someone fapping to loli?
Did I ever say people fapping to loli weren't pedophiles? Did I?

You see, you're doing it again. I never denied this, but you're trying to insinuate I was. So much for "honesty."

I should note the convo chain here--my original claim was "media can't make you do something you don't already have the capacity for," which you responded to by going on this fucking meaningless tangent.... a tangent which does not disprove my point, and arguably backs it up.

So like I said, you're defending it. If you don't like hearing that, don't do it.
Oh look, you're playing the conflation game again.

This site is my data pool. Vito the Pedo. Giggly Goonclown. Meigh the horse. must I continue? All of them are disgusting wretched people without exception.
Hey, speaking of wretched people, you revealed yourself to be religious on the previous page, right?

What have churches become notorious for again?

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freed-pedophile-priest-moves-across-from-kids-dance-studio.jpeg



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I've been suspecting for awhile that the hostility and focus on lolicon is two factors:

First, secret enjoyment mixed with shame, sort of like Frollo in Hunchback of Notre Dame and how he kept blaming Esmerelda for his boner.

Second, probably a bit of seething resentment that--while the quality of Japanese output can be debated--pop culture still largely prefers Japan's stuff to homegrown American work. And then when America last tried to prove it could compete with Japan on an even keel, what we instead got were Avatar the Last Airbender and Teen Titans, shallow cases of "monkey see monkey do." The last time America's own output was genuinely better than Japan's was in the 1980s.

Jealousy is an ugly thing in a grown man....
 
Yeah but nothing indicates he's a pedophile per se, although I would not be surprised.


While he's exaggerating how bad the former is and indirectly downplaying the harm of the latter, at least he's taking morality into consideration. A moral society is necessary, so even though the impact is worlds apart, both have a negative effect on society (albeit to staggeringly different degrees).

I really wish people didn't try to divorce society of a moral compass. It would take 100 pages spanning a 1000 topics to even begin to touch on the effects, the moral fabric of society is shredded so it should be no surprise we have so much crime and degeneracy.

Trying to use the word moral in that way is pointless, it's easy to say we should have a moral society, and everyone can agree with that but then have a hundred different images of what that society looks like.
I think the moment you start trying to clamp on fiction is it when it crosses over from being moral to being self-righteous.
 
Hey, speaking of wretched people, you revealed yourself to be religious on the previous page, right?

What have churches become notorious for again?

r0_74_800_526_w1200_h678_fmax-3202125363.jpg



freed-pedophile-priest-moves-across-from-kids-dance-studio.jpeg



Ppriest_3476.jpg


I've been suspecting for awhile that the hostility and focus on lolicon is two factors:

First, secret enjoyment mixed with shame, sort of like Frollo in Hunchback of Notre Dame and how he kept blaming Esmerelda for his boner.

Second, probably a bit of seething resentment that--while the quality of Japanese output can be debated--pop culture still largely prefers Japan's stuff to homegrown American work. And then when America last tried to prove it could compete with Japan on an even keel, what we instead got were Avatar the Last Airbender and Teen Titans, shallow cases of "monkey see monkey do." The last time America's own output was genuinely better than Japan's was in the 1980s.

Jealousy is an ugly thing in a grown man....
Still lower than school teachers by a significant margin fedora tipper. And i know youd like me to be your Frolo, but i just like Anime for fights, story, and memes.
 
If anything it takes more mental gymnastics (or a dirtier mind) to think she's "trying to fuck her father" than to think she's just a kid who wants attention.
Had your dumb ass never watched Sailor Moon? She tries to "have" him when she is turned into Black Lady
This is another thing frustrating about these topics, taking something that's actually pretty simple and seeing something wrong or dirty about it.

Kids like to fantasize about what they'll be like when they grow up. A kid who can magically turn adult and be a doctor or a spy or something else is a fun fantasy for them (and in some cases anime uses this as an opportunity to educate them on the realities of these professions).

If you're seeing anything "skeevy" about this, then maybe you're the sick one.
I think atleast two of these had girl try to date older guy while aged up. Hell, I heard that from girl who watched all the normal magical girl stuff made.

Will bow out from the thread as you can not even read the wikipedia article and it is a waste of time.
 
Had your dumb ass never watched Sailor Moon? She tries to "have" him when she is turned into Black Lady
So... during the period where she's aged-up and magically corrupted by an evil wizard.

I did watch Sailor Moon but honestly I recall skipping around a lot because the show can be kind of a drag. I also recall the manga being a lot better but also actually really different.

Will bow out from the thread as you can not even read the wikipedia article and it is a waste of time.
Probably a wise idea. It would be more constructive to go and play some Quake.
 
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You know you're over the target when the lolifags come up with the yes its a child , but it's not a real child cope.
The mental gymnastics they go through to claim they're not pedos is quite amusing.

Kinda telling that men who jerk it to outright yaoi don't insist on being straight cause they know they’re bisexual at minimum. At most you get “are traps gay?” being presented as a philosophical question. Usually ends with them accepting they might be bisexual, even if not attracted to real men.

But it’s always Lolifags who play mental gymnastics while coping.
 
You’re dumb as a doorknob for saying that ‘science hasn’t proved X’ means ‘science supports Y’.
The assertion is that looking at violence/sexual media makes one more violent/sexual. Science has tested this hypothesis and failed to actually prove a causal connection, ergo science ostensibly supports the idea that looking at such media does not cause one to become more like such media. Science can't prove a negative (that watching such content has no effect), only a positive relationship, just like the onus is on the prosecutor in a case to prove guilt, not on the guilty to prove innocence.

He has made the positive assertion that art is incapable of affecting a change in a person.
No, his assertion was that such media can't override your own personality and personal morality to the point where you will suddenly discard morality and simply act out what you see in media.

A positive statement requires justification, particularly one which flies against all common understanding (specifically that the purpose of art is to affect change).
And, as I said, his positive statement is backed up by the existing scientific research. And while art maybe trying to effect some form of change (i.e. propaganda), its actual ability to effect our personalities and morals is, based on current scientific research, limited.

I believe that it is child pornography and it is legally classified as such by the authorities where I live. Why not address the broader point instead of quibbling over semantics
Because in this debate, the semantics actually matters. I don't know what jurisdiction you live in, it maybe Canada for all I know, but its hardly relevant. Not all jurisdiction recognize it as child porn and there is a reason for this. Because Child pornography is pornography made with actual children, and lolicon/shotacon doesn't meet this definition.

I have emphasised the word personally in your statement. It’s not about what I personally think, it’s about the objective fact that most of society finds them repugnant and allowing such conversations to take place in public is contrary to the public interest.
"Most" of society? Have you polled most of society to determine this? No. Its your personal moral repugnancy that drives your feelings, not some greater feeling of society. More than likely, most of society could care less for loli/sho, or at best don't like it, but don't really care is someone else does, as long as they keep it away from them. You don't speak for society, stop acting like you do.
 
You don't speak for society, stop acting like you do.
Go talk about it in public under your real name if you think people expressing disgust don’t speak for all of society. You’re disgusting.
And, as I said, his positive statement is backed up by the existing scientific research.
This is simply not true. Again, playing a video games or watching dirty harry is worlds away from getting off to child porn. Again, there’s no evidence that studies of video games have any relevance to watching child porn.
Not all jurisdiction recognize it as child porn and there is a reason for this. Because Child pornography is pornography made with actual children, and lolicon/shotacon doesn't meet this definition.
Not all jurisdictions prohibit is as illegal child pornography, some consider it to be legal child pornography. No jurisdiction says it isn’t child porn.
 
Go talk about it in public under your real name if you think people expressing disgust don’t speak for all of society. You’re disgusting.
Nobody talks about porn in public, regardless of whether or not the general public finds that type of porn disgusting. Its just not polite to do.

Again, playing a video games or watching dirty harry is worlds away from getting off to child porn.
Once again, we are not talking about child porn. Just because you keep using that terminology, doesn't mean that I'm going to accept it. And no, there are no scientific studies linking the watching of lolicon/shotacon to real pedophilia either.

Not all jurisdictions prohibit is as illegal child pornography, some consider it to be legal child pornography. No jurisdiction says it isn’t child porn.
That's bullshit and you know it. No matter how much you try, you are not going to bend the world to your will just because you keep trying to misuse words and make them fit your definition. Its legal in jurisdictions that don't recognize it as child porn at all. Regardless of what you think. In fact, nobody gives a shit what you think. It isn't child porn.
 
Maybe if we were ruled by a computer
Hey that doesn't sound like a bad idea then you remember that most people would gladly force computers to follow the CURRENT YEAR rules with extreme prejudice. I'd rather a government that has names and address tbh.
you're saying things ought to be banned because you're mad people say things online.
Welcome to the Internet, no one actually believes in things, they just wear them like skin-suits to achieve their goals. Many such cases, very sad.
 
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